Calm down guys

#227
#227
NashVol11 said:
#6 in the country not being "high level" is 100% opinion.

5-7 to top ten not "proving" anything, or not being anything "of relevance," is also 100% opinion.

You are entitled to your opinions and definitions of those particular terms.
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Yet you compared Harbaugh to Saban and Spurrier? Harbaugh will never be on their level, he'll have to win multiple NCs to get there, and it just isn't going to happen... my opinion, but supported by facts!
 
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#228
#228
NashVol11 said:
#6 in the country not being "high level" is 100% opinion.

5-7 to top ten not "proving" anything, or not being anything "of relevance," is also 100% opinion.

You are entitled to your opinions and definitions of those particular terms.
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None of that is winning championships right?

1. #6 in the country is 2 spots out of the playoffs...right?

2. 3rd in his conference division, is still behind Penn State and OSU...right?

Still nothing of relevance, in the grand scheme of the college football landscape.

If Harbaugh is 10-3 next year, losing to OSU, and 2nd or 3rd in his conference division again, will it still be something of relevance to you, or just a pattern of his ceiling in the Big10 and college level?

He still hasn't proven anything, he's got to get over that hump first.

I am not hating on Harbaugh, I am just not allowing the media to change my opinion about the level of his weak accomplishments.

A lot of coaches have won 10+ games and never accomplished anything else, its not uncommon. Brian Kelly, Will Muschamp, Art Briles, and James Franklin just to name a few...facts suck don't they!
 
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#229
#229
that was a pretty thorough whoopin johnrlansford:eek:k:
they just don't want to hear the facts and then it always turns into " then you just love butch so much" or "you are happy with being mediocre" lol its so polarizing... there is no middle ground on this site.
 
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#230
#230
Brasszilla said:
that was a pretty thorough whoopin johnrlansford:eek:k:
they just don't want to hear the facts and then it always turns into " then you just love butch so much" or "you are happy with being mediocre" lol its so polarizing... there is no middle ground on this site.
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Exactly, i am not arguing Harbaugh vs. Butch. I am just not inflating the lack of accomplishment Harbaugh has had thus far at Michigan. He may turn out to be a good coach but as of now he hasnt proven that at Michigan.

The grass is always greener on the other side but if Harbaugh came to tennessee and won 10 games then never won anything else, we would be calling for his head the way many are calling for Butch's head now.

Sabans superiority is unfair to judge every coach against. He is a once in a lifetime kind of coach. It just sucks that he is the coach for our biggest rival.
 
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#231
#231
johnrlansford said:
No everyone else is comparing him to Butch. So i added the points of comparison to Butch.

I said he hasnt done anything of relevance. Which is 100% true!!!

If you have a different argument what has he done outside of improving Michigan's regular season record? (Which I have acknowledged)

You are arguing with no points, what side are you arguing. Because you haven't made a single point yet? Just like to argue huh?

Harbaugh may prove to be a good coach but he hadn't proven that yet on the measurables that define a good coach!(winning big games and competing for championships...he has done neither at Michigan)
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You're isolating only 2 years of his entire career. When the fact is he has gone to a rose bowl and gone to a super bowl. You're the one dictating a narrative to fit your argument.

To say he's never competed for a championship is just wrong in general, and he was in a defecto play in game for a big 10 and national championship playoff against OSU, which is by definition contending.

It's just a weak argument to fit your agenda.
 
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#232
#232
johnrlansford said:
I never said he was a failed coach. I've seen his resume, hes never won a conference championship less yet a National Championship in college. Harbaugh has never won his conference in college not at Stanford or Michigan (butch has won 4 conference titles outright and shared), . Harbaugh was 12-1 in 2010 but lost to Pac 10 champs Oregon.

So let me get this straight Harbaugh hasnt beat his rival and failed to win his division in the Big10, how is he a good coach and Butch Jones is a horrible one? Atleast Butch beat Florida and was 9-4. Harbaugh was only 10-3 without a signifigant win over his biggest rival OSU. But i guess 1 game make Harbaugh good and Butch horrible right? You have no point in this arguement, not one that is held by any valid source of logic.

I am not making a claim that Butch is better or even as good as Harbaugh (that is another conversation) what i am saying is you cant have it both ways, if Harbaugh is good then so is Butch. Either way neither of them have proven anything at there respective schools, atleast nothing that seperates them from any good coach in the game today. Harbaugh is riding the media hype train right now that is all, i persobally think he has hit his plateau, Urban is better, heck I think Franklin is better. I dont see him reaching much more success at Michigan, he may win his division one day but i doubt it. If he does I'll gladly say I am wrong but that is for another day.😆 either way Harbaugh has proven nothing outside of he can produce a respectable regular season record.
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Again, you're all over the map.

You made a simple claim that perhaps one day Harbaugh may be a "good" coach, but he hasn't proven to be one yet. I disputed that by pointing out his accomplishments....great results at lowly Stanford, NFC title and SuperBowl appearance, and now a very rapid turnaround at what was an underperforming Michigan program.

For some reason, you don't think a coach can be a "good coach" unless he wins titles/championships.....and that's where my strongest disagreement with you is.

And you're the one that's hellbent on bringing up Butch as a comparison for some reason, not me. I've only ever mentioned him in this thread to discuss what "in contention" means. I'm not comparing Jones and Harbaugh, you are, so your point of "having it both ways" falls flat.

My only point in this thread is that Harbsugh's resume to date (turning Stanford around from 4-8 to 12-1 in 4 years, NFC champ/NFL Coach of the year/SuperBowl, and 20-5/play away from CFB playoffs in year 2) qualify him as being a "good coach".
 
#233
#233
johnrlansford said:
Exactly, i am not arguing Harbaugh vs. Butch. I am just not inflating the lack of accomplishment Harbaugh has had thus far at Michigan. He may turn out to be a good coach but as of now he hasnt proven that at Michigan.

The grass is always greener on the other side but if Harbaugh came to tennessee and won 10 games then never won anything else, we would be calling for his head the way many are calling for Butch's head now.

Sabans superiority is unfair to judge every coach against. He is a once in a lifetime kind of coach. It just sucks that he is the coach for our biggest rival.
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No one at Tennessee would be calling for Harbaugh's head if he did what he did this year for four years. More opinion and more crazy opinion. Equating him with Butch is, again, ridiculous.

John is going to end up like the people saying Saban wouldn't win at Alabama because they lost to Louisiana-Monroe, but I don't think he'll be around to "own it"
 
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#234
#234
Harbaugh hasn't won his division at Michigan, that's a fact that everyone agrees on.

The reason John is still arguing about it is because he wants to say that that means something, like that Harbaugh "can't" win his division (opinion) or is unproven (opinion) and that Tennessee fans who think Butch isn't a great coach would think the same of Harbaugh (ridiculous opinion). Then he's passing off his opinions as facts.

That's like me saying Butch hasn't proven anything more than Dooley other than a better regular season record, so if Dooley is bad and you wanted him fired, you have to think of Butch the same way. Can't have it both ways!!!
 
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#235
#235
jakez4ut said:
You're isolating only 2 years of his entire career. When the fact is he has gone to a rose bowl and gone to a super bowl. You're the one dictating a narrative to fit your argument.

To say he's never competed for a championship is just wrong in general, and he was in a defecto play in game for a big 10 and national championship playoff against OSU, which is by definition contending.

It's just a weak argument to fit your agenda.
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"In 2 years he hasn't done anything besides win more games than almost everyone else in the country"

Pretty narrow statement with a pretty big "besides" there
 
#236
#236
So lets clear the air about this topic. Every job is a new start, just be real success at one school or job doesnt always translate to the next job.

Harbaugh has improved the Michigan regular season record, but nothing else. Does that mean he will be a good coach at Michigan for the long haul? Absolutely not! There is no guarantee of that.

Your all making this too big of a deal, "Harbaugh hasnt won anything of relevance at Michigan" that has been my sole argument! I dont believe he has proven to be a good coach at Michigan yet! That is a simple argument.

Nothing he has done has shown he will win a championship for the foreseeable future...yes championships, that is how good coaches are measured...Conference Championships and National Championships.

He has never won his division or conference championship at the Stanford or Michigan? I'll concede that the definition of a good coach is subjective.

But I can promise if Harbaugh hasn't beaten OSU, won his division, competed for the Big10 Championship by year 4 and all he does is have a good regular season record, Michigan fans wont be happy or think he is a good coach! Its the nature of the beast!
 
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#237
#237
jakez4ut said:
You're isolating only 2 years of his entire career. When the fact is he has gone to a rose bowl and gone to a super bowl. You're the one dictating a narrative to fit your argument.

To say he's never competed for a championship is just wrong in general, and he was in a defecto play in game for a big 10 and national championship playoff against OSU, which is by definition contending.

It's just a weak argument to fit your agenda.
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Spot on.
 
#238
#238
johnrlansford said:
But I can promise if Harbaugh hasn't beaten OSU, won his division, competed for the Big10 Championship by year 4 and all he does is have a good regular season record, Michigan fans wont be happy or think he is a good coach! Its the nature of the beast!
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Ironic
 
#240
#240
johnrlansford said:
So lets clear the air about this topic. Every job is a new start, just be real success at one school or job doesnt always translate to the next job.

Harbaugh has improved the Michigan regular season record, but nothing else. Does that mean he will be a good coach at Michigan for the long haul? Absolutely not! There is no guarantee of that.

Your all making this too big of a deal, "Harbaugh hasnt won anything of relevance at Michigan" that has been my sole argument! I dont believe he has proven to be a good coach at Michigan yet! That is a simple argument.

Nothing he has done has shown he will win a championship for the foreseeable future...yes championships, that is how good coaches are measured...Conference Championships and National Championships.

He has never won his division or conference championship at the Stanford or Michigan? I'll concede that the definition of a good coach is subjective.

But I can promise if Harbaugh hasn't beaten OSU, won his division, competed for the Big10 Championship by year 4 and all he does is have a good regular season record, Michigan fans wont be happy or think he is a good coach! Its the nature of the beast!
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clear the air? no, it's the same thing you've been saying, and it still doesn't hold water.

i admire you sticking to your guns, but there's a point where you have to step back, and really look at what you're saying....

you're not making the argument you think you are.

the only statement you've made that's true is "he hasn't won a championship at Michigan". that's where this thing really ends.
 
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#242
#242
jakez4ut said:
clear the air? no, it's the same thing you've been saying, and it still doesn't hold water.

i admire you sticking to your guns, but there's a point where you have to step back, and really look at what you're saying....

you're not making the argument you think you are.

the only statement you've made that's true is "he hasn't won a championship at Michigan". that's where this thing really ends.
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What of relevance has has he won at Michigan?
 
#245
#245
NashVol11 said:
Or because I already answered like 1500 times, but if it's not a Big Ten championship, you'll say it doesn't count
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Simply Imprvoing the Overall record is not proving you are a slam dunk hire or good coach. If so Butch Jones is a slam dunk Hire and a good coach, right?
 
#246
#246
johnrlansford said:
Simply Imprvoing the Overall record is not proving you are a slam dunk hire or good coach. If so Butch Jones is a slam dunk Hire and a good coach, right?
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Sure, if we're playing for a playoff spot in the last week of the season. I believe we were losing to Vandy instead.
 
#247
#247
NashVol11 said:
Sure, if we're playing for a playoff spot in the last week of the season. I believe we were losing to Vandy instead.
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So Harbaugh was losing to OSU and not making a playoff spot either, not sure what your angle is here? You aren't proving either is a good coach.
 
#248
#248
johnrlansford said:
So Harbaugh was losing to OSU and not making a playoff spot either, not sure what your angle is here? You aren't proving either is a good coach.
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I don't believe that you're not sure. It's obvious to most everyone that there's a big difference between going 8-4/Music City Bowl and going 10-2/Orange Bowl, no matter how hard you try to say "Oh they both just improved the record, so it's the same thing."
 
#249
#249
NashVol11 said:
I don't believe that you're not sure. It's obvious to most everyone that there's a big difference between going 8-4/Music City Bowl and going 10-2/Orange Bowl, no matter how hard you try to say "Oh they both just improved the record, so it's the same thing."
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Butch is just the example added to it, you are missing the point. 10-3 is not as far from 9-4 as you are making it. The SEC is a better conference Period. The bowl games showed that compared to the BIG10.

10-3 is an improvement but it doesn't prove that he is a good coach or the slam dunk hire that Michigan is expecting him to be. Year 4 will be the sign on the wall because he hasn't shown the ability to go much further than he has already taken Michigan.


Look at it like this, he has done nothing to justify being the Higest paid coach in college football!!! NOTHING!!!
 
#250
#250
johnrlansford said:
Butch is just the example added to it, you are missing the point. 10-3 is not as far from 9-4 as you are making it. The SEC is a better conference Period. The bowl games showed that compared to the BIG10.

10-3 is an improvement but it doesn't prove that he is a good coach or the slam dunk hire that Michigan is expecting him to be. Year 4 will be the sign on the wall because he hasn't shown the ability to go much further than he has already taken Michigan.


Look at it like this, he has done nothing to justify being the Higest paid coach in college football!!! NOTHING!!!
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super bowl. rose bowl.

that's not nothing, and yhou don't get paid solely on what people predict you may do in the future.

Harbaugh brings a helluva resume. and he's done it in pro and college. it's reasonable to expect that he'll be successful in college...again.

but don't give up. keep going.
 
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