Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#376
#376
99gator said:
Do daj's statistics and analysis account for attrition and busts.

We have a 5* linebacker that has never played a down. Thats at a position of need.

We've got a transfer from Virginia and Fordham who start.

Weve got one offensive lineman left from the class of 2012 and 2013 combined.

I can list the signees from 2012-2014 and see just how impressed you are after i do.
Click to expand...

I think we should all just admit you found a diamond and we can concede the decade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#378
#378
triad280 said:
Let's compare them to UT's roster from then and see how impressed you are... Doofus didn't even recruit an OL in 2012...

/discussion
Click to expand...

Doofus was pretty stupid.

That said, it doesn't really matter in the comparison to UF if they only have 1 left from the 12' and 13' classes combined.
 
#381
#381
VFL-82-JP said:
IDK. But here's what I do know. I'm tied for 172nd Place (out of 812 competitors) in Freak's weekly pick-em contest. Not too shabby, top 25%, but not incredi-good, either.

DAJ is tied for 5th. Out of those 812 people. Not top 25%, top 1%. He, along with folks like Terrypedigo and SpecialEd, have it going on. Hats off to them.

So he must be doing something right with his stats. Better than you and me, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

So you need to quit posting?:)
 
#384
#384
Lawrence Wright said:
Everyone was wrong about Florida thriving this year, present company included. Being wrong isn't the same as lacking common sense.

Now to suggest that 83% of coaches would produce the exact same results as McElwain, results that virtually no one predicted before the season, that's the very definition of lacking common sense.
Click to expand...

I agree. They are talented and Champ did recruit good players, but for a coach to come and win the east in his first year is amazing. Now I also say that this is the year to do it...SC is a train wreck, UT has blown games late, GA is as bad as they have been in years, Vandy is Vandy, and Mizzou started the season with a coke geek at QB. That is what the East is. If nothing else, Mac got UF through their coaching transition and into the SEC title game in year 1, hence they are in a very real way in better shape than all their divisional competition. No way could more than a handful of coaches do that, let alone 100!
 
#389
#389
I can't believe the depth to which Lyle has convinced some fans to just believe everything he says. The man has turned recruiting into an acceptable substitution for winning and people don't bat an eye. The problem is, when he's been here 20 years or however long it takes for him to birth and raise the perfect roster, he will still be facing equal talent and better coaches. Having the very best talent is necessary to win in the SEC, it is not however, sufficient to win in the SEC. He will never be able to "out talent" our rivals, and he sure as hell isn't going to out coach them. We are wrapping up year three, and he has shown zero indications that he is a top tier coach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#390
#390
BeecherVol said:
Your "like" count is high here. I guess your doing something right.
Click to expand...

I'm still a newb, as others have made sure I stay aware. No idea why folks like some of the posts I put up, I'm mostly just peddling BS when I'm not quoting smarter people. :)
 
#391
#391
volgrad500 said:
I can't believe the depth to which Lyle has convinced some fans to just believe everything he says. The man has turned recruiting into an acceptable substitution for winning and people don't bat an eye.....
Click to expand...

Well, to somewhere along the lines of a 70%+ solution, recruiting IS winning in college ball. That's pretty well substantiated. As Phil used to say, it's the Jimmys and the Joes, not the Xs and Os.

p.s. Your hatred of "Lyle" is palpable. Get over that, and maybe you'll enjoy your Vols more. Just an idea.
 
#392
#392
jakez4ut said:
i'm listening to replay of vol calls right now.

and i think way too much is being made of this comment, and it doesn't help that the thread title is a bit misleading when you listen to it all, and get all the context.

caller asked a question regarding how hard is it to red shirt/not red shirt certain players....
Jones does talk about "process" a few times, then talks about a book he's reading, regarding parenting....and how it has helped change his perspective.

he talks specifically about difficulty of O Linemen being true freshmen playing....

as for the comment, it's in direct response to Kesling about getting to the point where you have RS JR/SR's...and Butch said he was talking to some other individuals and they all said it takes 6 or 7 seasons to get to that point. he then went on to talk about some specific positions in that regard, RB being one of them.

this comment dealt only with what he considers it would take to build the kind of quality depth needed to compete long term.

it had zero to do with the results in a given season, or what one should expect in a given season.:thumbsup:

knowing is half the battle......
Click to expand...

Exactly. Most of the RS juniors and seniors for the next couple of years are only going to be because of injuries. Drew Richmond (if he stays) could be a RS junior in Butch's 6th year and a RS senior in Butch's 7th year. Butch had to put his first few signing classes on the field immediately. But writing an article about that doesn't draw clicks at all like "Butch said that it will take 6-7 years to rebuild the program".

**** storming and what not.
 
#393
#393
volgrad500 said:
I can't believe the depth to which Lyle has convinced some fans to just believe everything he says. The man has turned recruiting into an acceptable substitution for winning and people don't bat an eye. The problem is, when he's been here 20 years or however long it takes for him to birth and raise the perfect roster, he will still be facing equal talent and better coaches. Having the very best talent is necessary to win in the SEC, it is not however, sufficient to win in the SEC. He will never be able to "out talent" our rivals, and he sure as hell isn't going to out coach them. We are wrapping up year three, and he has shown zero indications that he is a top tier coach.
Click to expand...

Stupid post is stupid.
 
#395
#395
VFL-82-JP said:
I'm still a newb, as others have made sure I stay aware. No idea why folks like some of the posts I put up, I'm mostly just peddling BS when I'm not quoting smarter people. :)
Click to expand...

I don't buy the "youth" excuse.:)

Experience doesn't always = good here.
 
#396
#396
KBVol said:
I agree, you make an excellent point..."hey Jalen, come play at Tennessee, your home school. Come bust your arse for 3 years, come help us recruit players, come help us promote the program.....and 3 years after you're long gone I'm gonna get this team to winning at a high, consistent level."

"Hey fans, just wait for it, we're gonna win a championship of some kind at Tennessee, it's coming......it's just gonna take twice as much time as every other coach is given and 5 to 6 years longer than it's taken McElwain down in Florida."

Jones may be right, he may need 6 or 7 years......but it's incredibly tone deaf and just an awful message to send to both the fans and players alike IMO.


Edit: I just don't understand his thinking in saying this at the moment. He's doing a great job with the program, he had a signature win vs Georgia and played Bama down to the wire....he should be feeling little to no heat right now....90% of fans are good with him, as he likely gets us to 8 wins and a decent bowl game. Did he damn near singlehandedly cost us 2 very good wins vs OU and Florida due to his poor gameday coaching acumen? Yes, it's well-documented. But nobody is calling for his job, things are going well, most of us are all good. Why say this?
Click to expand...

I've said it before, Butch needs a dictionary and a PR guy with him at all times.
 
#397
#397
Butch won 9 games his 3rd year and did not coach the bowl game at Central Michigan, and then he won 11 games and did not coach the bowl game at Cincinnati. With those bowls, he could have secured a 10 win and 12(!) win season in each of his third years. Clearly, Butch is throwing some water on the high expectations, but he knows you can get it done sooner.
 
#398
#398
volgrad500 said:
I can't believe the depth to which Lyle has convinced some fans to just believe everything he says. The man has turned recruiting into an acceptable substitution for winning and people don't bat an eye. The problem is, when he's been here 20 years or however long it takes for him to birth and raise the perfect roster, he will still be facing equal talent and better coaches. Having the very best talent is necessary to win in the SEC, it is not however, sufficient to win in the SEC. He will never be able to "out talent" our rivals, and he sure as hell isn't going to out coach them. We are wrapping up year three, and he has shown zero indications that he is a top tier coach.
Click to expand...

Preach it, brother!
 
#399
#399
BeecherVol said:
Refresh my memory on how all of that come about.
Click to expand...

I honestly believe he would have ended up here, but there was some rift concerning walking recruiting violation Clint Hurtt. I don't know if Hart or Strong caved on that difference before the latter changed his mind.
 
#400
#400
VFL-82-JP said:
Of course you have to look at the starting point. Not talking about guys who take over the Vols when we're winning 8, 9 games a year and continue the success (Neyland, Fulmer, others).

This chart shows the first three years (#wins) for each Tennessee coach throughout our history who faced a rebuilding job.

Rebuilding%20Coaches.png


Some things jump right out at you: almost all of the coaches achieved success to one degree or another. Only Dooley took the team downhill. Even Wyatt had net gain over the three years, even though he regressed from Year 2 to Year 3.

The next thing you notice is that Jones' trend looks very similar to the trendlines of Johnny Majors and Z.G. Clevenger. All three heading steadily upward. What is less obvious at first glance is that Butch will outperform both of them if he wins out (including bowl win). Butch matches Doug Dickey's success in his first three years, as well. Being favorably compared to Dickey, Majors and Clevenger, that's pretty good company.

So yes, it hurt to lose to OK and FL after leading them for much of the game. Sucks, to be honest. And yes, it was clearly possible for Team 119 to have gone 11-2 rather than 9-4, if we'd held out to win those two matches.

But that hypothetical scenario would just ADD to Butch's success, which is already matching the best in our history for rebuilding eras. Those two almost-wins don't detract from what you see in this chart--they would've added to it.

No, Butch is the man. Those who are hating on him are wrong. He's definitely got the program moving in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Great post. When one goes back and look at the data, it should be clear to every VOL fan that our football program is in great hands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top