Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#351
#351
bamawriter said:
Since 2008 (and including this season), Auburn has only had a winning SEC record twice. They went to the NC game both times. That does seem a little flukey, no?
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To be fair, after Chizik was fired he was surely saying that it was a fluke. Now that he has to argue the other side, he's willing to act like it wasn't.
 
#352
#352
jakez4ut said:
i'm listening to replay of vol calls right now.

and i think way too much is being made of this comment, and it doesn't help that the thread title is a bit misleading when you listen to it all, and get all the context.

caller asked a question regarding how hard is it to red shirt/not red shirt certain players....
Jones does talk about "process" a few times, then talks about a book he's reading, regarding parenting....and how it has helped change his perspective.

he talks specifically about difficulty of O Linemen being true freshmen playing....

as for the comment, it's in direct response to Kesling about getting to the point where you have RS JR/SR's...and Butch said he was talking to some other individuals and they all said it takes 6 or 7 seasons to get to that point. he then went on to talk about some specific positions in that regard, RB being one of them.

this comment dealt only with what he considers it would take to build the kind of quality depth needed to compete long term.

it had zero to do with the results in a given season, or what one should expect in a given season.:thumbsup:

knowing is half the battle......
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You can just gtfo with that reasoned and rational assessment there bud!
 
#354
#354
jakez4ut said:
i'm listening to replay of vol calls right now.

and i think way too much is being made of this comment, and it doesn't help that the thread title is a bit misleading when you listen to it all, and get all the context.

caller asked a question regarding how hard is it to red shirt/not red shirt certain players....
Jones does talk about "process" a few times, then talks about a book he's reading, regarding parenting....and how it has helped change his perspective.

he talks specifically about difficulty of O Linemen being true freshmen playing....

as for the comment, it's in direct response to Kesling about getting to the point where you have RS JR/SR's...and Butch said he was talking to some other individuals and they all said it takes 6 or 7 seasons to get to that point. he then went on to talk about some specific positions in that regard, RB being one of them.

this comment dealt only with what he considers it would take to build the kind of quality depth needed to compete long term.

it had zero to do with the results in a given season, or what one should expect in a given season.:thumbsup:

knowing is half the battle......
Click to expand...

Too late. Panties have already been bunched and jimmies have rustled.
 
#355
#355
bamawriter said:
Since 2008 (and including this season), Auburn has only had a winning SEC record twice. They went to the NC game both times. That does seem a little flukey, no?
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Im not a fan of calling 14 win seasons (in this conference) and a repeat trip flukes personally. It may be easier when you have won 3 NCs since 09'.
 
#356
#356
Actually I agree with Butch. To really reload a program that is rock bottom as the Vols were following Kif-Dooley fiasco and the Bill Battle debacle - it can easily take 6 years or more. I am not talking about an isolated 10 win season by Mike Shula or 11 by Muschamp. The Vols were in last place in 1977 when Majors took over and fighting to stay out of it in the Dooley - 1st two Jones years. I do not buy this Year 1, 2, 3 stuff. Compare apples with apples within the same program. UF, GA, LSU, Alabama schools have phenomenal instate recruiting bases that the northern schools - UT, KY, MO, Vandy do not have. There are serious reasons Hamilton and Hart had trouble filling the Tennessee job - any coach with half a brain understands the difference in recruiting bases in the SEC. Butch is years ahead of where Majors was in his rebuild - but Johnny had the advantage of being a Vol hero as well as a NChamp ring from Pitt. It took Majors 8 years or so but once it was built it was solid (with Fulmer, Cutcliffe, Chavis' help). Anyway I like what I see on the talent rebuild - the wins will come in 2016 and 2017 after the brutally hard work of Butch's first 3 years. Continual kickass recruiting will tell the story if they can sustain as a top drawer SEC team.

My biggest criticism is with Kiffin - he ran off some top recruits Fulmer had committed, brought in worthless thugs like Nu'Keese, etc. and turned over a real dumpster job for Dooley. In turn, Butch took over a situation not much better still suffering from Kiffin's disastrous first class and the year he bailed out for his wetdream job. Dooley should never have been interviewed much less hired but at least he took on the challenge and gave it a shot when few even would talk with Hambone. Hart looks like a genius hiring Butch Jones to this point. Look at Texas right now!
 
#357
#357
JC61 said:
go back and look at how close most of their wins were...then look at how Chizik ended up and how Malzahn is doing the past 2 years....fluke / damn lucky definitely comes to mind.

Without Cam...never would have been in most of those games during the NC year. He was a unique talent in college and maybe turning into one in the pros as well.
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I remember the season well enough. UT needed some big breaks to win in 98'. Most all of them do at some point.

At the end of the day they got "the" trophy. No different than we did.
 
#358
#358
Do daj's statistics and analysis account for attrition and busts.

We have a 5* linebacker that has never played a down. Thats at a position of need.

We've got a transfer from Virginia and Fordham who start.

Weve got one offensive lineman left from the class of 2012 and 2013 combined.

I can list the signees from 2012-2014 and see just how impressed you are after i do.
 
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#359
#359
Guys, do you have any idea what the offensive line situation McElwain inherited was like? He was looking at having to troll freshman orientation just to find bodies.

How bad was it? Due to injuries and attrition and poor strategic recruiting prior to his arrival, he literally didn't have enough o-linemen on the team to have a regular spring scrimmage. He had to go out and find a guy eligible to transfer from Furman--FURMAN--just to have enough people to field a unit. He recruited and landed the top o-linemen out of high school and is playing him.

What he's managed to do on offense given the hand he was dealt is astounding. There aren't more than 10-- let alone a hundred--coaches who could have pulled off the season he has.
 
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#361
#361
BeecherVol said:
I remember the season well enough. UT needed some big breaks to win in 98'. Most all of them do at some point.

At the end of the day they got "the" trophy. No different than we did.
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true enough...almost always need a little luck to make it through a season unscathed or with the trophy.

OTOH...our guys didn't go 4-16 in the SEC the following 2 years either.

Chizik was not a good HC and his record demonstrates that. Folks down in auburnland are starting to seriously question Malzahn as well....that's why I would put those 2 runs in the fluke category...but that's just my take.
 
#362
#362
AirGator said:
Guys, do you have any idea what the offensive line situation McElwain inherited was like? He was looking at having to troll freshman orientation just to find bodies.

How bad was it? Due to injuries and attrition and poor strategic recruiting prior to his arrival, he literally didn't have enough o-linemen on the team to have a regular spring scrimmage. He had to go out and find a guy eligible to transfer from Furman--FURMAN--just to have enough people to field a unit. He recruited and landed the top o-linemen out of high school and is playing him.

What he's managed to do on offense given the hand he was dealt is astounding. There aren't more than 10-- let alone a hundred--coaches who could have pulled off the season he has.
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Well ya'll did have a ton of experience at the QB position to fall back on.
 
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#363
#363
BeecherVol said:
Refresh my memory on how all of that come about.
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Cholly Strong turned Hart down - Too lazy for the Vol job. Hart rebounds with Butch Jones and the rest will be history. A genius has Plan "B" and quickly executes it.
 
#364
#364
JC61 said:
true enough...almost always need a little luck to make it through a season unscathed or with the trophy.

OTOH...our guys didn't go 4-16 in the SEC the following 2 years either.

Chizik was not a good HC and his record demonstrates that. Folks down in auburnland are starting to seriously question Malzahn as well....that's why I would put those 2 runs in the fluke category...but that's just my take.
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To each his own I suppose.

I'll take a couple flukes over a 5 year span if thats what they are.
 
#365
#365
knox73 said:
Cholly Strong turned Hart down - Too lazy for the Vol job. Hart rebounds with Butch Jones and the rest will be history. A genius has Plan "B" and quickly executes it.
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Charlie strong was too lazy for the job? Come on man, let's type facts instead of your silly opinions
 
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#366
#366
I remember when folks wanted to fire Dabo in 2010 when he went 6-7, but in his 7th year I would say it is built solid.
 

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#367
#367
BeecherVol said:
images
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That's funny, I don't care who you are!:worship:
 
#368
#368
knox73 said:
Cholly Strong turned Hart down - Too lazy for the Vol job. Hart rebounds with Butch Jones and the rest will be history. A genius has Plan "B" and quickly executes it.
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So Hart felt Strong was > than Jones and got lucky Strong turn him away.

I fail to see the genius even if Jones wins big here.
 
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#369
#369
jakez4ut said:
i'm listening to replay of vol calls right now.

and i think way too much is being made of this comment, and it doesn't help that the thread title is a bit misleading when you listen to it all, and get all the context.

caller asked a question regarding how hard is it to red shirt/not red shirt certain players....
Jones does talk about "process" a few times, then talks about a book he's reading, regarding parenting....and how it has helped change his perspective.

he talks specifically about difficulty of O Linemen being true freshmen playing....

as for the comment, it's in direct response to Kesling about getting to the point where you have RS JR/SR's...and Butch said he was talking to some other individuals and they all said it takes 6 or 7 seasons to get to that point. he then went on to talk about some specific positions in that regard, RB being one of them.

this comment dealt only with what he considers it would take to build the kind of quality depth needed to compete long term.

it had zero to do with the results in a given season, or what one should expect in a given season.:thumbsup:

knowing is half the battle......
Click to expand...

LOL of all people you know better than to bring logic to KB, Wylo etc. Facts be damned. Context be damned. Whining and crying and bashing is what's called for. Come on man! LOL
 
#370
#370
bamawriter said:
Since 2008 (and including this season), Auburn has only had a winning SEC record twice. They went to the NC game both times. That does seem a little flukey, no?
Click to expand...

Running back a failed field hall was the fluky part. Sometimes luck is just on your side.
 
#372
#372
99gator said:
Do daj's statistics and analysis account for attrition and busts.
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IDK. But here's what I do know. I'm tied for 172nd Place (out of 812 competitors) in Freak's weekly pick-em contest. Not too shabby, top 25%, but not incredi-good, either.

DAJ is tied for 5th. Out of those 812 people. Not top 25%, top 1%. He, along with folks like Terrypedigo and SpecialEd, have it going on. Hats off to them.

So he must be doing something right with his stats. Better than you and me, that's for sure.
 
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#373
#373
ReaderVol said:
LOL of all people you know better than to bring logic to KB, Wylo etc. Facts be damned. Context be damned. Whining and crying and bashing is what's called for. Come on man! LOL
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eh, i just wanted to find out, so i did. now i know. i couldn't care less what everyone else thinks. i can make up my own mind.:thumbsup:
 
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#374
#374
99gator said:
Weve got one offensive lineman left from the class of 2012 and 2013 combined.

I can list the signees from 2012-2014 and see just how impressed you are after i do.
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Let's compare them to UT's roster from then and see how impressed you are... Doofus didn't even recruit an OL in 2012...

/discussion
 
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