Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#1,326
#1,326
Kiffin tarnished the image of UT it was a top ten to fifteen program it was prestigious and proud then a one year coach slaps us in the face and ran off like a thief in the night couple that with hambones "coaching search" and as the Japanese say we lost face
 
#1,327
#1,327
ajvol01 said:
It all depends on your definition for "building a program".

Majors took 9 seasons to win SEC.

Fulmer took 5 seasons to win SEC, 6 to win BCS.

Saban won SEC West in 2nd yr at Bama, SEC & BCS in 3rd year - only Urban @ UF and tOSU is in the same category.

What is the expectation @ Tennessee for a program that has arrived?

IMO it means top 25 every year, top 10 every other year, win sec east every 3rd or 4th yr, win sec 1-2 times per decade, compete for national championship (i.e. Playoffs) 1-2 times per decade.
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I disagree with this assessment. For me UT will have arrived when the SEC championship is a playin game for us. If Mizzou or UF won the last 2 years they wouldn't have made it in. Think UGA 2012, where the winner of the SEC is a shoe in to win it all
 
#1,333
#1,333
People are embarrassing themselves when they make comparisons to Saban/Dantonio at Michigan State. Even after all these years they still can't recruit with us. Literally the only advantage they have over Tennessee is in the coaching department.
 
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#1,334
#1,334
CountVolcula said:
Not kidding

They helped recruit just as much as the staff

Do you not remember all the twitter noise from guys like Wharton, McKenzie, the Berry's?
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I think the drop in recruiting is due to how big our classes have been. I think it should pick back up next year, but Butch does have to deliver on the field.
 
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#1,335
#1,335
tvolsfan said:
People are embarrassing themselves when they make comparisons to Saban/Dantonio at Michigan State. Even after all these years they still can't recruit with us. Literally the only advantage they have over Tennessee is in the coaching department.
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You're missing the point, nobody ever compare Tennessee to MSU. They had to rebuild completely rebuild. It took Saban 5 years just to get 8 wins, the reason why? He was early in his career. Look how quick Dantonio did it. Won 9 games in year 2.

Here's a challenge for you. Name as many coaches that you can that won a Natty in their first 9 years of being a HC(there's not a lot) Then, after you find all them, figure out how many of them have been a bust. Like Coker or Chizik. Since you think HC's just win natty's so quickly in their career now.
 
#1,337
#1,337
The selling point that Butch had was to put Tennessee back on the map. And to be part of that process and foundation.

Now that we are back on the map, he has got to sell himself, championships, and TN to the recruits.

Every SEC team can say:
Play for the best conference.
We are a gateway to the NFL.
TV exposure.
Tradition

Only the Vols can say:
Win a championship for the Vols and you become a Tennessee State Hero.

Come play in the largest stadium in the SEC.

There is no lack of passion for any fan base in the SEC except for Vandy and Kentucky and maybe now Mizzou.

Go Vols!
 
#1,338
#1,338
Iam4utalways said:
The selling point that Butch had was to put Tennessee back on the map. And to be part of that process and foundation.

Now that we are back on the map, he has got to sell himself, championships, and TN to the recruits.

Every SEC team can say:
Play for the best conference.
We are a gateway to the NFL.
TV exposure.
Tradition

Only the Vols can say:
Win a championship for the Vols and you become a Tennessee State Hero.

Come play in the largest stadium in the SEC.

There is no lack of passion for any fan base in the SEC except for Vandy and Kentucky and maybe now Mizzou.

Go Vols!
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Doesn't A&M have the largest stadium?
 
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#1,341
#1,341
Smokey123 said:
You're missing the point, nobody ever compare Tennessee to MSU. They had to rebuild completely rebuild. It took Saban 5 years just to get 8 wins, the reason why? He was early in his career. Look how quick Dantonio did it. Won 9 games in year 2.

Here's a challenge for you. Name as many coaches that you can that won a Natty in their first 9 years of being a HC(there's not a lot) Then, after you find all them, figure out how many of them have been a bust. Like Coker or Chizik. Since you think HC's just win natty's so quickly in their career now.
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Early in his career? That's your theory?

Most coaches don't win national titles in like year 3 of being a coach because most coaches start out at minor programs where that's not possible and then work their way up. Harbaugh went 11-1 in year 2 (and year 3) of being a HC, but he was at San Diego. Urban Meyer went 12-0 in year 4, but he was at Utah so no title. It's not like it took those guys a decade to learn how to win.
 
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#1,342
#1,342
VKAman said:
Early in his career? That's your theory?

Most coaches don't win national titles in like year 3 of being a coach because most coaches start out at minor programs where that's not possible and then work their way up. Harbaugh went 11-1 in year 2 (and year 3) of being a HC, but he was at San Diego. Urban Meyer went 12-0 in year 4, but he was at Utah so no title. It's not like it took those guys a decade to learn how to win.
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It also helps that many of these coaches step into situations where the pieces of the puzzle are there. They're great coaches, but great coaches with bad players still lose. More, I'm not sure they start with a roster as bad as ours and end up any better off than we currently are.
 
#1,343
#1,343
jwells said:
It also helps that many of these coaches step into situations where the pieces of the puzzle are there. They're great coaches, but great coaches with bad players still lose. More, I'm not sure they start with a roster as bad as ours and end up any better off than we currently are.
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The ol' "Harbaugh/Saban wouldn't do any better than Butch has." I thought we retired this
 
#1,344
#1,344
newyorkvol said:
I need to mix a "prediction" into this thread....

We go 10-2 regular season losing @ TAMU and home vs Bama. We lose SECCG and win bowl game finishing 11-3.

People will still say that opportunity is nowhere.
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Why do people assume we'll lose to A&M? Kyler Murray is transferring too, so they're out two 5* QB's in one week. They under achieve every year.
 
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#1,345
#1,345
jwells said:
It also helps that many of these coaches step into situations where the pieces of the puzzle are there. They're great coaches, but great coaches with bad players still lose. More, I'm not sure they start with a roster as bad as ours and end up any better off than we currently are.
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With all due respect, I don't how anybody can legitimately say that one of the great coaches in college football today.....guys like Saban, Meyer, Dantonio, Harbaugh and even Snyder at KState.... wouldn't have taken this Tennessee team/roster to at least a 10-2 record after we lost 2 all but certain wins due to Jones' coaching malpractice. Each of those guys have proven themselves over time.
 
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#1,346
#1,346
VKAman said:
The ol' "Harbaugh/Saban wouldn't do any better than Butch has." I thought we retired this
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not as long as you bring up irrelevant crap about Harbaugh at San Diego. You don't take in to account that he was coaching in a league where most of the players are equal in talent. When he went to Stanford, he improved every year, but it was not as sudden as it was as it was at San Diego. I would venture to say that his trajectory was similar to the trajectory that we are on now.
 
#1,347
#1,347
titansvolsfaninga said:
not as long as you bring up irrelevant crap about Harbaugh at San Diego. You don't take in to account that he was coaching in a league where most of the players are equal in talent. When he went to Stanford, he improved every year, but it was not as sudden as it was as it was at San Diego. I would venture to say that his trajectory was similar to the trajectory that we are on now.
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If you think that was irrelevant, you clearly don't understand the conversation we were having. But you're comparing Tennessee to the 1-11 Stanford team Harbaugh inherited, so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.
 
#1,348
#1,348
VKAman said:
If you think that was irrelevant, you clearly don't understand the conversation we were having. But you're comparing Tennessee to the 1-11 Stanford team Harbaugh inherited, so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.
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Butch inherited an equally abysmal TN team. You act as if he inherited a roster full of 4 and 5 star recruits. The fastest player at the 2013 proday was our freaking punter! Michael Palardy was the fastest UT football player at Proday. That tells me all that I need to know about the state of TN football when Butch got here.

FTR, I read ALL of your asinine comments regarding "We are TN and WE should be winning by year 3" crap.
 
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#1,349
#1,349
Smokey123 said:
You're missing the point, nobody ever compare Tennessee to MSU. They had to rebuild completely rebuild. It took Saban 5 years just to get 8 wins, the reason why? He was early in his career. Look how quick Dantonio did it. Won 9 games in year 2.

Here's a challenge for you. Name as many coaches that you can that won a Natty in their first 9 years of being a HC(there's not a lot) Then, after you find all them, figure out how many of them have been a bust. Like Coker or Chizik. Since you think HC's just win natty's so quickly in their career now.
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For me, it's not about national titles, it's SEC titles. For me, it's meeting your goal if you win and SEC title and get in the discussion/have an opportunity to win a National Title. Those are my expectations for Tennessee, jmo.

And to that end, the stat I've always heard is that since 1992, the year the SEC divided into the East and West divisions and began playing a title game, only 1 coach has ever won the SEC title without winning at least 9 games in either his first or second year at that SEC school.

To illustrate this, here are the 11 coaches who won have an SEC title in that time frame and their records during their first 2 years at that school. Only Mike Dubose is the outlier....

Gene Stallings, Alabama 7-5, 11-1
Steve Spurrier, Florida 9-2, 10-2
Philip Fulmer, Tennessee, 4-0, 9-2-1
Mike Dubose, Alabama 4-7, 7-5
Nick Saban, LSU 8-4, 10-3
Tommy Tuberville, Auburn 5-6, 9-4
Mark Richt, Georgia 8-4, 10-3
Urban Meyer, Florida 9-3, 13-1
Les Miles, LSU 11-2, 11-2
Nick Saban, Alabama 7-6, 12-2
Gene Chizik, Auburn 8-5, 14-0
Gus Malzahn, Auburn 12-2, 8-5

So bottom line, based on 24 historical SEC seasons, you better get to 9 wins in one of your first 2 seasons (usually year 2), or you'll never win an SEC title.
 
#1,350
#1,350
There's a bunch of variables in that. Like what did the coaches inherit the first two years and injuries. So, bottom line? No I think not.
 
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