Butch Jones

#55
#55
#56
#56
I’ve wondered if Butch wants to stay in the Southeast or Midwest? We know he has an ego, & the Southeast usually produces better football.
 
#57
#57
bamawriter said:
His buyout isn't offset by what he was offered. It's offset by how much he is actually earning.
Click to expand...

Please note your obligations under Section 3.1.4 of the Agreement, including without limitation your obligation to use your reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's obligation to pay liquidated damages by making reasonable and diligent efforts as soon as practicable following termination to obtain another comparable employment or paid services position.

Key word being "comparable". Choosing the Alabama coffee-minion job over a higher-paying coaching position, could be argued as a breach of contract, and nullify UT's obligation to continue paying liquidated damages if it were found that Jones didn't seek out commensurate employment, as per his contractual obligations.

Crunching the numbers: What Tennessee owes Butch Jones
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShoalCreekVol
#60
#60
BeardedVol said:
Please note your obligations under Section 3.1.4 of the Agreement, including without limitation your obligation to use your reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's obligation to pay liquidated damages by making reasonable and diligent efforts as soon as practicable following termination to obtain another comparable employment or paid services position.

Key word being "comparable". Choosing the Alabama coffee-minion job over a higher-paying coaching position, could be argued as a breach of contract, and nullify UT's obligation to continue paying liquidated damages if it were found that Jones didn't seek out commensurate employment, as per his contractual obligations.

Crunching the numbers: What Tennessee owes Butch Jones
Click to expand...
He did make reasonable and diligent efforts to obtain a comparable job - he said "thanks, but no thanks" to the Oregon St HC job and was supposedly in play for an assistant position under Locksley's Maryland staff (perhaps OC).

He is required to seek comparable employment; put your name in different hats, seek out/get interviews, etc. - they can't force him to accept a job.
 
#61
#61
05_never_again said:
He did make reasonable and diligent efforts to obtain a comparable job - he said "thanks, but no thanks" to the Oregon St HC job and was supposedly in play for an assistant position under Locksley's Maryland staff (perhaps OC).

He is required to seek comparable employment; put your name in different hats, seek out/get interviews, etc. - they can't force him to accept a job.
Click to expand...

Choosing a low-paying analyst job at Alabama, as opposed to an actual coaching job, would not be "reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's obligation to pay liquidated damages". It wasn't the first year he took the job, it definitely wasn't the second, and it won't be the third either if he stays in Tuscaloosa in 2020. He can choose to stay at Alabama, but per his contract, liquidated damages are paid with the understanding that Butch would seek and obtain commensurate employment.

UT could say "we think you are in breach of contract, we aren't going to pay you any longer, feel free to file suite, but know that we'll subpoena every communication that Jimmy Sexton had with any school concerning job opportunities, along with any AD that Sexton spoke with about coaching positions that you would be interested in". Butch could sue, but he refused to even entertain other coaching positions, then an arbiter is most likely going to mediate a final cash payment, much less than the rest of the buyout, especially if he does actually plan on coaching again in his lifetime. If no one will hire Butch, then I'd make him go on record and prove that fact if he's going to continue to be Saban's coffee-getter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ptcarter
#62
#62
BeardedVol said:
Choosing a low-paying analyst job at Alabama, as opposed to an actual coaching job, would not be "reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's obligation to pay liquidated damages". It wasn't the first year he took the job, it definitely wasn't the second, and it won't be the third either if he stays in Tuscaloosa in 2020. He can choose to stay at Alabama, but per his contract, liquidated damages are paid with the understanding that Butch would seek and obtain commensurate employment.

UT could say "we think you are in breach of contract, we aren't going to pay you any longer, feel free to file suite, but know that we'll subpoena every communication that Jimmy Sexton had with any school concerning job opportunities, along with any AD that Sexton spoke with about coaching positions that you would be interested in". Butch could sue, but he refused to even entertain other coaching positions, then an arbiter is most likely going to mediate a final cash payment, much less than the rest of the buyout, especially if he does actually plan on coaching again in his lifetime. If no one will hire Butch, then I'd make him go on record and prove that fact if he's going to continue to be Saban's coffee-getter.
Click to expand...
Not "seek and obtain." Butch contractually has an "obligation to use your reasonable and best efforts...by making reasonable and diligent efforts...to obtain another comparable employment or paid services position."

He has to make a good faith effort attempt to obtain one, not actually obtain one. It means throwing his name in the hat. They can't force him to accept a position. Butch held up his end of the contract by throwing his name in the hat for the Oregon St and Maryland positions. Maybe others. If he sought out only low-paying analyst jobs, then I agree, Tennessee would have a strong case to make that he breached his contract. It's possible nobody actually wants him for a comparable job, at least at the moment.

I'm not sure how you'd structure a contract to force someone to accept another job, much less get someone to agree to it. Would they have to accept the first offer they receive, the highest-paying position, etc.?
 
#63
#63
05_never_again said:
Not "seek and obtain." Butch contractually has an "obligation to use your reasonable and best efforts...by making reasonable and diligent efforts...to obtain another comparable employment or paid services position."

He has to make a good faith effort attempt to obtain one, not actually obtain one. It means throwing his name in the hat. They can't force him to accept a position. Butch held up his end of the contract by throwing his name in the hat for the Oregon St and Maryland positions. Maybe others. If he sought out only low-paying analyst jobs, then I agree, Tennessee would have a strong case to make that he breached his contract. It's possible nobody actually wants him for a comparable job, at least at the moment.

I'm not sure how you'd structure a contract to force someone to accept another job, much less get someone to agree to it. Would they have to accept the first offer they receive, the highest-paying position, etc.?
Click to expand...

'Reasonable best efforts'. Choosing to stay an analyst at Alabama is fine if that is what you want to do, UT is not under an obligation to pay out liquidated damages if Butch is choosing to stay in a low-paying job. I'd make Butch prove that he has made "reasonable best efforts" to find a coaching position.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShoalCreekVol
#64
#64
BeardedVol said:
'Reasonable best efforts'. Choosing to stay an analyst at Alabama is fine if that is what you want to do, UT is not under an obligation to pay out liquidated damages if Butch is choosing to stay in a low-paying job. I'd make Butch prove that he has made "reasonable best efforts" to find a coaching position.
Click to expand...
Maybe they have - I don't know. He reportedly turned down Oregon St (Coaching rumors: Oregon State reportedly reached out to Butch Jones about job opening) and was linked with Locksley at Maryland (Former UT Vols football coach Butch Jones joining Maryland staff, per report). It might be hard for Tennessee to argue at this point that he hasn't made a reasonable effort to find a comparable job. There isn't anything in the contract saying he has to do it on an ongoing basis either (e.g., keep trying to get a comparable job until he accepts one or until the full buyout is paid).

I'm pretty sure legally all he has to do is throw his name in the hat for comparable jobs. If it could be proven that all he did is try and get an analyst job, then yes, Tennessee might have a pretty good case against him.
 
#65
#65
05_never_again said:
Maybe they have - I don't know. He reportedly turned down Oregon St (Coaching rumors: Oregon State reportedly reached out to Butch Jones about job opening) and was linked with Locksley at Maryland (Former UT Vols football coach Butch Jones joining Maryland staff, per report). It might be hard for Tennessee to argue at this point that he hasn't made a reasonable effort to find a comparable job. There isn't anything in the contract saying he has to do it on an ongoing basis either (e.g., keep trying to get a comparable job until he accepts one or until the full buyout is paid).

I'm pretty sure legally all he has to do is throw his name in the hat for comparable jobs. If it could be proven that all he did is try and get an analyst job, then yes, Tennessee might have a pretty good case against him.
Click to expand...

If Butch Jones turned down a head coaching job, he would be in breach of contract in UT's obligation to pay him liquidated damages. His contract didn't just state, "you will find a job with commensurate pay", it specifically says "reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's obligation to pay liquidated damages" . There's a very good argument to be made that choosing to stay at Alabama for $35k/year as opposed to taking a HC position at Oregon State, is not making a 'reasonable best effort to mitigate the university's obligation to pay liquidated damages.' Which is why I'd Butch a letter, say that his continued employment as an analyst is a breach of that clause, and that UT would not longer be paying liquidated damages. Butch would have to sue, and prove otherwise.
 
#66
#66
BeardedVol said:
If Butch Jones turned down a head coaching job, he would be in breach of contract in UT's obligation to pay him liquidated damages. His contract didn't just state, "you will find a job with commensurate pay", it specifically says "reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's obligation to pay liquidated damages" . There's a very good argument to be made that choosing to stay at Alabama for $35k/year as opposed to taking a HC position at Oregon State, is not making a 'reasonable best effort to mitigate the university's obligation to pay liquidated damages.' Which is why I'd Butch a letter, say that his continued employment as an analyst is a breach of that clause, and that UT would not longer be paying liquidated damages. Butch would have to sue, and prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
Butch would sue and likely win, given the contract states that he has to make reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's buyout. It doesn't say he has to actually mitigate the buyout. I guarantee you that's what Butch's lawyer would argue. Again, a lot of this boils down to not being able to force someone to accept a job. Butch would only lose such a case if it could be proven that he didn't even seek out those jobs. He has to make reasonable best efforts to obtain comparable employment, which would mitigate the University's buyout.

If UT had a clean, open-and-shut case against Butch, I'd say they probably would have brought it already. Coaches get fired/bought out all the time, don't obtain comparable employment afterward, and I haven't heard of a single one getting sued. At least at the major college level.
 
#67
#67
05_never_again said:
Butch would sue and likely win, given the contract states that he has to make reasonable best efforts to mitigate the University's buyout. It doesn't say he has to actually mitigate the buyout. I guarantee you that's what Butch's lawyer would argue. Again, a lot of this boils down to not being able to force someone to accept a job. Butch would only lose such a case if it could be proven that he didn't even seek out those jobs. He has to make reasonable best efforts to obtain comparable employment, which would mitigate the University's buyout.

If UT had a clean, open-and-shut case against Butch, I'd say they probably would have brought it already. Coaches get fired/bought out all the time, don't obtain comparable employment afterward, and I haven't heard of a single one getting sued. At least at the major college level.
Click to expand...

It actually does though...

Butch-Jones.png

Butch-Jones-Initial-Contract

It specifically calls out "assistant or head football coach" as a position deemed 'comparable' that would fulfill the requirement of mitigating UT's obligation to pay liquidated damages. If he turned down a HC or assistance coaching position to stay an analyst, then he is in breach of contract.

UT had an open and shut case with Florida backloading Warren and Scott's contracts when Mullen hired them, and didn't pursue it either, doesn't change the fact that they were also in breach of their contracts with UT.
 
#68
#68
BeardedVol said:
It actually does though...

Butch-Jones.png

Butch-Jones-Initial-Contract

It specifically calls out "assistant or head football coach" as a position deemed 'comparable' that would fulfill the requirement of mitigating UT's obligation to pay liquidated damages. If he turned down a HC or assistance coaching position to stay an analyst, then he is in breach of contract.

UT had an open and shut case with Florida backloading Warren and Scott's contracts when Mullen hired them, and didn't pursue it either, doesn't change the fact that they were also in breach of their contracts with UT.
Click to expand...
It says he is required to use his reasonable best efforts to mitigate it. I'm no lawyer, but I don't read "reasonable best efforts" to mean "must accept a comparable job if offered." He has to put forth a good faith effort to get a comparable job, which in turn would mitigate the buyout. I read all of this as saying that he has to honestly try and do something, not actually do it. Like I was saying earlier, how do you contractually force someone to take a job? What if nobody wants to hire you for a comparable job? Would you lose a lawsuit filed by a former employer because you're such a bad coach that nobody wants to hire you to a comparable job? No coach would sign such a contract, and I bet there's a good chance such a contract would be deemed unenforceable in court because what job offers a person gets is not 100% within their control.

If UT has an open and shut case with Butch, then tons of other schools should also have open-and-shut cases who are in similar situations, but I've never heard of a case being brought. I don't think turning down a comparable job offer puts him in breach of the contract - I think not putting forth a reasonable effort to secure such a job puts him in breach of that contract. If it turns out that the reports were wrong and Butch didn't throw his name in the hat for Oregon St, Maryland, or someone else, then UT would have a case.
 
#70
#70
I was talking to someone at work today that Butch would be good at Miss State if Moorhead goes to Rutgers. Already a spread offense installed. Connection to Shoop so they wouldn't have to buyout his contract. They don't have super high expectations. Butch would say stuff their fans would eat up. He'd recruit well and emcc is just down the road
 
#71
#71
Stark_Vol said:
I was talking to someone at work today that Butch would be good at Miss State if Moorhead goes to Rutgers. Already a spread offense installed. Connection to Shoop so they wouldn't have to buyout his contract. They don't have super high expectations. Butch would say stuff their fans would eat up. He'd recruit well and emcc is just down the road
Click to expand...

Shoop would leave. He didn't like Butch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: onevol74 and VolNExile
#72
#72
Stark_Vol said:
I was talking to someone at work today that Butch would be good at Miss State if Moorhead goes to Rutgers. Already a spread offense installed. Connection to Shoop so they wouldn't have to buyout his contract. They don't have super high expectations. Butch would say stuff their fans would eat up. He'd recruit well and emcc is just down the road
Click to expand...
Butch probably wouldn't be good as a head coach anywhere. Like the poster from Cincinnati warned us when Tennessee hired him: "he's not a head coach but he plays one on TV"
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Glocker_Alum_2005, MemphisVol77 and VolNExile
#73
#73
1972 Grad said:
He will learn a lot at Alabama, and be a better coach next time.
Click to expand...

I may get blasted for this, but I truly hope so. He took this job after 3 or 4 people said no. He tried, it didn't pan out, but that doesn't make him a terrible person. He saw that Tennessee was a great program with great tradition. He just fell short. It happens. I'm not sure why we have to hate him.

Nearly every person who is successful in life has failed, and usually multiple times. I hope he gets another shot and does great.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#74
#74
UTwild82 said:
I may get blasted for this, but I truly hope so. He took this job after 3 or 4 people said no. He tried, it didn't pan out, but that doesn't make him a terrible person. He saw that Tennessee was a great program with great tradition. He just fell short. It happens. I'm not sure why we have to hate him.

Nearly every person who is successful in life has failed, and usually multiple times. I hope he gets another shot and does great.
Click to expand...
On the hate issue... He stirred the pot. You think coming into Neyland last year, smoking cigars in the visitors locker room when Bama just beat a team where 90% of the UT team are players you recruited and practiced with, got buy in, added bricks during recruiting with their names on it? That is classless. Nothing more than flipping the big bird to Knoxville.

Sure he's butt hurt, but the right way to handle that would be to just get on the bus and head back to Tuscaloosa. I'd cut him some slack if he was Bama's head coach, but he's just a frickin' intern for goodness sake. He hasn't earned the right to celebrate like that. Screw him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MemphisVol77, OldandStillaVol and VolNExile
#75
#75
ptcarter said:
On the hate issue... He stirred the pot. You think coming into Neyland last year, smoking cigars in the visitors locker room when Bama just beat a team where 90% of the UT team are players you recruited and practiced with, got buy in, added bricks during recruiting with their names on it? That is classless. Nothing more than flipping the big bird to Knoxville.

Sure he's butt hurt, but the right way to handle that would be to just get on the bus and head back to Tuscaloosa. I'd cut him some slack if he was Bama's head coach, but he's just a frickin' intern for goodness sake. He hasn't earned the right to celebrate like that. Screw him.
Click to expand...

This is petty. He was on the winning sideline and everyone on that sideline lit up a cigar. It would have been awkward for his current job if he didn't. Makes it look like he's not all in at the new place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top