Butch Jones has revised the program

#151
#151
chargervol said:
Yes KB.
Basically, the answer is always he deserves to be "nailed".

I don't think he's elite, you find extreme fault with everything he does or says. It's my opinion my view is more realistic and you belive (imo), he is awful at mostly everything.
Click to expand...

No, not true. I've praised him over and over again for the very good to outstanding things he's done to revive and improve the program....recruiting, APR, Highschool coaching relationships, improving the on-field record, improving the discipline and attitude within the program, increasing the excitement among the fan base and as a result increasing football revenues. I've said more times than I can count that he's been very good to great Sunday thru Friday.

I've only ever criticized him for three things....his game day coaching which I believe has left at least half a dozen wins on the field in 4 years, his excuse-making for why his teams shouldn't/didn't win and his poor communication skills/the ridiculous stuff he often says.
 
#152
#152
KBVol said:
No, not true. I've praised him over and over again for the very good to outstanding things he's done to revive and improve the program....recruiting, APR, Highschool coaching relationships, improving the on-field record, improving the discipline and attitude within the program, increasing the excitement among the fan base and as a result increasing football revenues. I've said more times than I can count that he's been very good to great Sunday thru Friday.

I've only ever criticized him for three things....his game day coaching which I believe has left at least half a dozen wins on the field in 4 years, his excuse-making for why his teams shouldn't/didn't win and his poor communication skills/the ridiculous stuff he often says.
Click to expand...

I don't give you a hard time because I agree with much of your post.
You don't always post negative crap and make up #### like some.

I do think however, that while being open to both positive and negative, you fixate more about the wrongs. That's actually fairly common with people but will certainly lead to us clashing on occasion. We both seem to want to be in the powerhouse category but I try to keep my positive and negatives more equal or more positive.

As long as you lean your way and I lean mine, debatable subjects will put us at odds. We've always "let things go" and skipped over each other's posts even when it was obvious we didn't agree.

I've tried to continue that trend but..
 
#153
#153
chargervol said:
I don't give you a hard time because I agree with much of your post.
You don't always post negative crap and make up #### like some.

I do think however, that while being open to both positive and negative, you fixate more about the wrongs. That's actually fairly common with people but will certainly lead to us clashing on occasion. We both seem to want to be in the powerhouse category but I try to keep my positive and negatives more equal or more positive.

As long as you lean your way and I lean mine, debatable subjects will put us at odds. We've always "let things go" and skipped over each other's posts even when it was obvious we didn't agree.

I've tried to continue that trend but..
Click to expand...

It's all good Charge, you're a good dude and I'm surely not "hanging onto anything", just debating a bit. Agree with everything in your post, including how I now tend to track more negative regarding Butch. I used to routinely tout and defend him early on, first couple of years.....it turned for me in 2015.

But I admit, I've let what I deem his negative traits get to me and I now look at him from the exact opposite angle. Just don't trust him, and that's my choice based on what I believe I know of him through 4+ years now. Hope you'll believe me when I say I honestly hope he turns things around this year, overachieves and leads my beloved Vols to Atlanta in December. But at this point, I just can't go on faith with him, gotta see it to believe it.
 
#154
#154
KBVol said:
It's all good Charge, you're a good dude and I'm surely not "hanging onto anything", just debating a bit. Agree with everything in your post, including how I now tend to track more negative regarding Butch. I used to routinely tout and defend him early on, first couple of years.....it turned for me in 2015.

But I admit, I've let what I deem his negative traits get to me and I now look at him from the exact opposite angle. Just don't trust him, and that's my choice based on what I believe I know of him through 4+ years now. Hope you'll believe me when I say I honestly hope he turns things around this year, overachieves and leads my beloved Vols to Atlanta in December. But at this point, I just can't go on faith with him, gotta see it to believe it.
Click to expand...

I absolutely believe you KB, I know you just want us win.
I believe we are both weary of Jones failing with the new AD situation also.
But if it comes to that, I hope we are both wrong about Currie and he makes a homerun hire.
 
#155
#155
BeardedVol said:
Until he did what? Dabo's first full year as head coach he went 6-2 in the conference and played in the ACC championship game.

There are literally no similarities between Dabo's first 4 seasons at Clemson and CBJ's at UT, except for the color orange.
Click to expand...

What you are failing to mention about that first full year is that Dabo was 9-5. He lost to a South Carolina team that was 7-6 and 5th in the SEC East. He lost to a 2-10 Maryland team who finished last in the division Clemson was in. So he lost to South Carolina and the equivalent of his Vandy that year.

2010 he finished tied for 4th, next to last in the conference. He finished 6-7 losing to South Florida, a Big East team in the bowl game.

2011 he was 8-0 and then lost 4 of the last 6 games.
 
#156
#156
And he too was a master of saying the wrong thing as the wrong time (.... though nothing Jones has said beats this one IMO ....)

In 2011, Swinney led the Tigers to a 10–3 record that included an ACC Championship, the Tigers' first since 1991. They earned a trip to the Orange Bowl, their first major-bowl appearance since the 1981 national championship season. During a pre-game ESPN interview prior to the 2012 Orange Bowl, Swinney said, "Hopefully when this thing is over, people are going to be talking about the Clemson defense." The comment proved to be prescient as #15 Clemson would go on to lose to the #23 West Virginia Mountaineers, 70–33, conceding an all-time record number of points scored in a quarter (35), half (49) and game (70) in the 109-year history of bowl games. Defensive coordinator Kevin Steele was fired after the game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#157
#157
volfan102455 said:
What you are failing to mention about that first full year is that Dabo was 9-5. He lost to a South Carolina team that was 7-6 and 5th in the SEC East. He lost to a 2-10 Maryland team who finished last in the division Clemson was in. So he lost to South Carolina and the equivalent of his Vandy that year.

2010 he finished tied for 4th, next to last in the conference. He finished 6-7 losing to South Florida, a Big East team in the bowl game.

2011 he was 8-0 and then lost 4 of the last 6 games.
Click to expand...

Yep, 2010 has been Dabo's worst year at Clemson, he was 4-4 in conference play. Subsequently, it's also the only non-winning conference record that he's had at Clemson.

2011, Clemson still won their division, and went on to win the ACC. After WV hung 70 on them Dabo fired Kevin Steele, and hasn't done worse than 10-3 (6-2) since. I left that part out too, because it's irrelevant to the comparison as well.
 
#158
#158
chargervol said:
I absolutely believe you KB, I know you just want us win.
I believe we are both weary of Jones failing with the new AD situation also.
But if it comes to that, I hope we are both wrong about Currie and he makes a homerun hire.
Click to expand...

We're on the same page. As I've said before, I actually have some empathy for Butch now given Currie's hiring. Hope he grows into the job and the new AD doesn't get a chance to hire a new football coach....won't be good imo given the guy's track record. Butch'll fully win me back if he wins and becomes a more standup guy at the podium.
 
#159
#159
Whew. Whirlwind of emotion in this thread.

To clear one thing regarding the 6-7 years quote, the quote was in response to a question about competitive depth, and the quote was basically along the lines of 'it takes 6-7 years to build the competitive depth necessary to sustain a championship level program.'

Iirc it was, in part, relating to some comments about what nick Saban and bob stoops have been able to do at their respective programs. It was from a radio show, and it was an answer to a direct question, amidst a conversation about building a program like TN, in general.

It's one of the few quotes he made that I didn't have any issue with, and it was totally taken out of context when it got turned in to 'it takes 6-7 years to win a championship' which is not what he said.

In regards to Butch in general...it really has become a pointless discussion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#160
#160
Unfortunately a lot of what Coach Jones says is taken out of context. It is the norm for those who look to find something to complain about.

New faces on the coaching staff. New QB. New faces at quite a few positions. Players seem very optimistic - I wish folks would rally behind this team rather than continuing to try to tear them down before they even take a snap on the football field.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#161
#161
volfan102455 said:
Unfortunately a lot of what Coach Jones says is taken out of context. It is the norm for those who look to find something to complain about.

New faces on the coaching staff. New QB. New faces at quite a few positions. Players seem very optimistic - I wish folks would rally behind this team rather than continuing to try to tear them down before they even take a snap on the football field.
Click to expand...

It's what happens when fans are dissatisfied with a coach. They start scrutinizing and building a personal "rap sheet" on every little thing that coach does or says. I was guilty of this with Fulmer when he was coaching. I'm trying not to do that with Jones.
 
#164
#164
jakez4ut said:
Whew. Whirlwind of emotion in this thread.

To clear one thing regarding the 6-7 years quote, the quote was in response to a question about competitive depth, and the quote was basically along the lines of 'it takes 6-7 years to build the competitive depth necessary to sustain a championship level program.'

Iirc it was, in part, relating to some comments about what nick Saban and bob stoops have been able to do at their respective programs. It was from a radio show, and it was an answer to a direct question, amidst a conversation about building a program like TN, in general.

It's one of the few quotes he made that I didn't have any issue with, and it was totally taken out of context when it got turned in to 'it takes 6-7 years to win a championship' which is not what he said.

In regards to Butch in general...it really has become a pointless discussion.
Click to expand...

Just declare your position and leave it at that:

Based on the 2nd half of Florida, I say he will bring us NCs.

All other opinions are justified due to last year's loss to Vandy.

The timing was bad to just fire him for it.

From here on, timing has been satisfied.

Win or be ready to be sent to the house.
 
#166
#166
volfan102455 said:
I just don't understand so called fans wishing that the team loses enough games so that a coach is fired.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is wishing him to lose in order to be fired. People want him to win. What they DONT want is for him to "win just enough to keep his job". Which seems to be the pattern developing here. That's a special kind of hell reserved for Georgia fans and any respectful UT fan should want no part of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#168
#168
MWAVolfan said:
I don't think anyone is wishing him to lose in order to be fired. People want him to win. What they DONT want is for him to "win just enough to keep his job". Which seems to be the pattern developing here. That's a special kind of hell reserved for Georgia fans and any respectful UT fan should want no part of that.
Click to expand...

It all about his ceiling.

I believe he can bring us NCs.

As soon as I feel he can't, then so be it.
 
#169
#169
BeardedVol said:
So what if the ACC was a wreck in 2009? Dabo still at least clinched a division title. In 2016 the SECe was a wreck, the SECw wasn't that much better outside of Alabama, and CBJ still couldn't even pull off a winning conference record.

Saying that it took Dabo 6-7 years to build a "championship" winning football team is patently false. He won the ACC in his third full season as a coach. No matter how much you want it to be, there are no real similarities between Dabo and Butch at the fifth year mark at their respective schools.
Click to expand...

2009 was a wreck in the ACC Just like the SECe has been a wreck the last two years.
 
#170
#170
volfan102455 said:
Unfortunately a lot of what Coach Jones says is taken out of context. It is the norm for those who look to find something to complain about.

New faces on the coaching staff. New QB. New faces at quite a few positions. Players seem very optimistic - I wish folks would rally behind this team rather than continuing to try to tear them down before they even take a snap on the football field.
Click to expand...
point 1, yes, that happens. but to be fair, he's been his own worst enemy in this arena. point 2, specific to this upcoming season, agreed.
Brave Volunteer said:
It's what happens when fans are dissatisfied with a coach. They start scrutinizing and building a personal "rap sheet" on every little thing that coach does or says. I was guilty of this with Fulmer when he was coaching. I'm trying not to do that with Jones.
Click to expand...
well, siap, he's not helped himself most of the time in his communication TO the media, and aside from the "6-7 year" comment i referenced earlier, he really hasn't helped himself. and the frustration is the lack of awareness and judgement in choosing what he says, how he says it and more importantly who he's saying it do. he has an opportunity to communicate with fans thru the media, instead, he chooses to communicate TO the media, and he thinks he's controlling the narrative, and it's wound up being the exact opposite.

MWAVolfan said:
I don't think anyone is wishing him to lose in order to be fired. People want him to win. What they DONT want is for him to "win just enough to keep his job". Which seems to be the pattern developing here. That's a special kind of hell reserved for Georgia fans and any respectful UT fan should want no part of that.
Click to expand...

i think there are those that want him to lose so he'll get fired. i also think that the "just enough to keep his job" only really applies short term. specifically for 2017. i think there's a fairly long leash this season given all the change in the program, both with the football program specifically for all the reasons you mentioned, and also administratively.

but 2018....i think that year sets up a lot like 2016 did. if there's another repeat, or worse, as expectations once again rise....then i think it's more than safe to say, CBJ has peaked. and then a decision needs to be made as to what the direction of the program should be competitively.
 
#171
#171
Iam4utalways said:
Just declare your position and leave it at that:

Based on the 2nd half of Florida, I say he will bring us NCs.

All other opinions are justified due to last year's loss to Vandy.

The timing was bad to just fire him for it.

From here on, timing has been satisfied.

Win or be ready to be sent to the house.
Click to expand...

How does 17 minutes of good game-day coaching in the 2016 Florida game, negate the hundreds of minutes in other games where Butch coached poorly?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#173
#173
volfan102455 said:
Unfortunately a lot of what Coach Jones says is taken out of context. It is the norm for those who look to find something to complain about.

New faces on the coaching staff. New QB. New faces at quite a few positions. Players seem very optimistic - I wish folks would rally behind this team rather than continuing to try to tear them down before they even take a snap on the football field.
Click to expand...

Breaking news....everything that every coach in college or the pros in every single sport is taken out of context.this is something every single coach in the country should be able to manage.

Just recently Alabama was called out as moving to "ball control offense". Saban immediately dressed the media down in a very straight forward way.no coach speak.he just made it clear that they were a bunch of idiots and the program belonged to him.

I wish our issues would be handled this way vs sh!t like "champions of life".

He needs to take control of the situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#175
#175
BeardedVol said:
How does 17 minutes of good game-day coaching in the 2016 Florida game, negate the hundreds of minutes in other games where Butch coached poorly?
Click to expand...

It just proved the players as a whole didn't quit on Butch. Since they didn't, i feel good about him.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top