Butch Jones has revised the program

[KBVol]

Yeah, talking about being able to defeat Alabama and win an SEC Championship is not related to being a National championship-level team. What the hell, I'll buy that.

Or at least claim I do for the sake of argument.

What are you talking about? Show me where he's talked about even winning the East division, much less beating Bama, winning the SEC and then competing for a national title? Where are you getting this? From his "it takes 6-7 years to really build an SEC program"?? Nothing about beating Bama and winning championships in that quote.

Again, this is the guy who was pissed at the media when they asked him about not winning the SEC East....you saw the quote where he said he never even discussed it and that his players never discussed it.

He's also the guy that was quick to point out he'd taken Tennessee to 3 straight bowl games "for the first time since 2002". That's fine, that's a decent accomplishment I guess, but it's light years away from talking about winning national titles at Tennessee. And I personally couldn't care less if he ever even makes the 4-team playoff here. Just win the SECe and get to the SECCG, that's all I ask, everything beyond that is gravy......just seems that between the two of us, me and Jones, that I'm the only one interested in the Vol football program accomplishing that.

 

[chargervol]

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

I offered before, we can pull up my posts.

We can pull up your posts. Is it really necessary though? Everyone already knows the answer.

 

[KBVol]

It sounds crazy, but I think he does live one week at a time during the season.

I'm already wishing for good weather in Atlanta on Jan. 9th, 2018.

And I can certainly understand that, that's fine and very likely necessary. It's corny but I understand his "we just want to be 1-0 this week". That's all good. But eventually to what end? What's the goal for the team? And if he was being honest in saying never talked about winning the SECE last year, then wth? And quite honestly, that quote falls directly in line with his defensiveness about getting to bowl games.

 

[chargervol]

What are you talking about? Show me where he's talked about even winning the East division, much less beating Bama, winning the SEC and then competing for a national title? Where are you getting this? From his "it takes 6-7 years to really build an SEC program"?? Nothing about beating Bama and winning championships in that quote.

Again, this is the guy who was pissed at the media when they asked him about not winning the SEC East....you saw the quote where he said he never even discussed it and that his players never discussed it.

He's also the guy that was quick to point out he'd taken Tennessee to 3 straight bowl games "for the first time since 2002". That's fine, that's a decent accomplishment I guess, but it's light years away from talking about winning national titles at Tennessee. And I personally couldn't care less if he ever even makes the 4-team playoff here. Just win the SECe and get to the SECCG, that's all I ask, everything beyond that is gravy......just seems that between the two of us, me and Jones, that I'm the only one interested in the Vol football program accomplishing that.

I thought I already conceded to you?
Of course when he was discussing building an SEC program he wasn't talking about winning anything.

He was obviously talking about building a team to do landscape and maintenance. Crazy to assume otherwise, I agree.
We're good, I know what the definition of "is" is.

But it would be such a blast for you to say it again. So we can continue to disagree over it.

 

[BeardedVol]

Understand all the rest and what you mean by this, but I want a serious answer. All of your statements are just so black-and-white, so are you saying there was no pressure on him to beat Florida last year?

Because unless I'm misunderstanding, you're implying if there was pressure, he would have failed. So I'm assuming you mean there was no pressure to do it?

And I'm not going to judge you by your answer, I just want to make sure that I'm understanding your point correctly.

I don't doubt that there was immense pressure to beat Florida in 2016. So much so that CBJ went against the very core of his personality and fired Jancek and hired Bob Shoop. But I wouldn't say that one quarter of clutch coaching erases the rest of the instances where his uptight coaching has been a factor in the outcome of games.

 

[KBVol]

I thought I already conceded to you?
Of course when he was discussing building an SEC program he wasn't talking about winning anything.

He was obviously talking about building a team to do landscape and maintenance. Crazy to assume otherwise, I agree.
We're good, I know what the definition of "is" is.

But it would be such a blast for you to say it again. So we can continue to disagree over it.

Must've missed it. Looks like there's no need to repeat the facts again, looks like we finally got you back on track?

 

[chargervol]

Must've missed it. Looks like there's no need to repeat the facts again, looks like we finally got you back on track?

I think so. I assumed he was talking about building a winning football program and you're saying because he didn't use those exact words specifically, he was just talking something.

So while we may be disagreeing a little, we both agree he was talking about "something".

I do feel for him though, poor guy gets blasted when he uses words over and over to give the exact message, then gets blasted if he isn't specific enough.

 

[Wylo]

It's all talk. We'll see this season. He'll just revert to his same self.

 

[Iam4utalways]

And I can certainly understand that, that's fine and very likely necessary. It's corny but I understand his "we just want to be 1-0 this week". That's all good. But eventually to what end? What's the goal for the team? And if he was being honest in saying never talked about winning the SECE last year, then wth? And quite honestly, that quote falls directly in line with his defensiveness about getting to bowl games.

I think he views the press the same way he views the refs, he don't like them.

 

[chargervol]

I don't doubt that there was immense pressure to beat Florida in 2016. So much so that CBJ went against the very core of his personality and fired Jancek and hired Bob Shoop. But I wouldn't say that one quarter of clutch coaching erases the rest of the instances where his uptight coaching has been a factor in the outcome of games.

Sorry to keep bothering you, but you use the phrase "against his nature".
I've seen the question several times, how often he hires people he has some form of relationship with... more than other coaches? I haven't seen the answer.

But if you do have the answer, please make it apples to apples. Just meaning if you include Canales, because they met and became friends at coaching conferences, you do the same for other coaches.
So what is the actual ratio that makes him so different?

 

[BeardedVol]

I offered before, we can pull up my posts.

We can pull up your posts. Is it really necessary though? Everyone already knows the answer.

Feel free to pull up my posts. You see because I judge CBJ off of his body of work at UT, and I've been pretty consistent in doing so. I don't need try to draw parallels to Dabo Swinney, or try to infer additional meaning from CBJ's statements in order to support beliefs that are contradictory to those facts.

His conference record, his recruiting record, his coaching hires, all of those are facts, and at the moment, none of them paint him as an SEC-caliber coach who can consistently compete in the division much less the conference as a whole.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Lol, the 2009 ACC. I remember that cluster**** of a season for that conference. I think he played one good team, Miami?

And by good, I mean they had a 9 win season? Which by your standards, is a fireable offense, so by your standards, I guess Clemson played no one in 2009.
But I digress, because like you, I believe that Swinney is a good coach.

But I know what the other poster meant, many grew impatient with Swinney because it took him 6 or 7 years to build a championship program.
6 or 7 years? Well that's just weird

Yeah I quoted the wrong post, which is why mine was confusing.

My point was nobody has a crystal ball. Some on here think they can look at what CBJ has done thus far and immediately know what the outcome of the future is going to be. I never thought Dabo would win a natty at Clemson until he did. Not saying CBJ hasnt made mistakes, not saying he hasnt frustrated me at times. However anyone who cant see that our program is exponentially healthier today than it was 4 years ago is simply refusing to look at all the facts.

Just remember, it took Fulmer 5 years to win the SEC and he inhereted a way better program than Butch did.

 

[chargervol]

Feel free to pull up my posts. You see because I just repeat the exact same things over and over. Even though I'm well aware, everyone has read it several times at this point, I just have no interest in talking with the guys. I basically live to just complain and complain.

Even when other so-called negative posters think something is okay, I find it to be atrocious. Others just don't seem to understand the complete amount of doom, that we are all always in.

I mean I've heard it's possible to dislike this, but like that, and just discuss those things? That just seems crazy to me, I would rather just complain about everything Non-Stop.

Fyp

 

[BeardedVol]

Sorry to keep bothering you, but you use the phrase "against his nature".
I've seen the question several times, how often he hires people he has some form of relationship with... more than other coaches? I haven't seen the answer.

But if you do have the answer, please make it apples to apples. Just meaning if you include Canales, because they met and became friends at coaching conferences, you do the same for other coaches.
So what is the actual ratio that makes him so different?

I'd go farther back than Canales. Bringing basically his entire staff from Cincinnati, retaining Mahoney, Martinez, and Azzani to the point that he had no choice but to let them go.

Even Mark Richt, the nicest guy in college football, knows that you sometimes you have fire guys that are your friends if they can't get the job done.

So yeah, given Jones' history with Jancek, I'd say firing him took every bit of resolve that he could muster.

 

[chargervol]

It's all talk. We'll see this season. He'll just revert to his same self.

I mostly agree with this believe it or not.

I've stated several times, I have no problems with people thinking it won't work. I just have never seen the need to repeat it 40 times a day. The season will be here soon and it will end as it will end. And we will have the results. No need in being miserable from now until then.
I just like football.

 

[BeardedVol]

Fyp

See, that's why you can't be taken seriously. You come in complaining about people rehashing the same criticisms of CBJ, and you in turn rehash the same old tired defense of CBJ. Yet when confronted with the facts of his record, you pull the message board equivalent of shoving your fingers in your ears and screaming "na na na na I can't hear you".

 

[chargervol]

I'd go farther back than Canales. Bringing basically his entire staff from Cincinnati, retaining Mahoney, Martinez, and Azzani to the point that he had no choice but to let them go.

Even Mark Richt, the nicest guy in college football, knows that you sometimes you have fire guys that are your friends if they can't get the job done.

So yeah, given Jones' history with Jancek, I'd say firing him took every bit of resolve that he could muster.

But hasn't a large portion of the people you are referring to, been replaced?
I mean if he was as bad as you imply, wouldn't they still be here, despite his record? Seems like he hired people that he was familiar with doing decent jobs at other levels, because he thought they may do so here also. But when they didn't, they were replaced. Doesn't seem like that bad of a thing, is it?

 

[chargervol]

See, that's why you can't be taken seriously. You come in complaining about people rehashing the same criticisms of CBJ, and you in turn rehash the same old tired defense of CBJ. Yet when confronted with the facts of his record, you pull the message board equivalent of shoving your fingers in your ears and screaming "na na na na I can't hear you".

Yeah, you nailed it.
I spend all my time defending Butch and you definitely don't complain a lot.
No reason to doubt you, but it's at least possible, this is entirely wrong lol.

 

[KBVol]

I think so. I assumed he was talking about building a winning football program and you're saying because he didn't use those exact words specifically, he was just talking something.

So while we may be disagreeing a little, we both agree he was talking about "something".

I do feel for him though, poor guy gets blasted when he uses words over and over to give the exact message, then gets blasted if he isn't specific enough.

He got blasted for saying two things....1. Saying it takes 6-7 years to "really build an SEC program"....it was a ludicrous statement...2. "I've never discussed winning the SECe"

He should've gotten nailed for both statements and he was.

I don't remotely feel sorry for him. He makes $4mm+ per annum, his communication skills are awful and he apparently doesn't share the same goals/aspirations as so many rabid, lifelong Vols fans/supporters do, which is to win something meaningful.

 

[BeardedVol]

But hasn't a large portion of the people you are referring to, been replaced?
I mean if he was as bad as you imply, wouldn't they still be here, despite his record? Seems like he hired people that he was familiar with doing decent jobs at other levels, because he thought they may do so here also. But when they didn't, they were replaced. Doesn't seem like that bad of a thing, is it?

Losing a $4million/year job, and probably your only chance to to be a head coach in a P5 conference is an excellent motivator. He kept those coaches much longer than he should have given their performance, and that decision will probably come back to haunt him.

 

[BeardedVol]

Yeah, you nailed it.
I spend all my time defending Butch and you definitely don't complain a lot.
No reason to doubt you, but it's at least possible, this is entirely wrong lol.

Because all discussion that isn't overtly praising Butch Jones, and showering him with accolades for not being as bad as Derek Dooley is complaining, negative, whining?

Yeah, you do take every opportunity to defend CBJ from all detractors real or imagined, probably because you seem to start from the mindset above.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

I, for one, would like the program to get back to where it was at the end of Majors' and the beginning of Fulmer's tenure. We went into every game, even against the most challenging teams, thinking there was a chance to win!

With Butch, not only do we not think we have a chance to win in most games but while the game is being played we're waiting for the meltdown preceding the loss. Ya'll remember-like Chavis' prevent defense preventing us from winning!

 

[chargervol]

Because all discussion that isn't overtly praising Butch Jones, and showering him with accolades for not being as bad as Derek Dooley is complaining, negative, whining?

Yeah, you do take every opportunity to defend CBJ from all detractors real or imagined, probably because you seem to start from the mindset above.

Not at all.
Whining ALL the time is the reason I said you whine all the time.

Now, there are several threads active today. Perfect opportunity for you to find all these defending posts you claim I make. Gonna do it this time or just keep proving you're completely full of it?


Still waiting.

 

[KBVol]

I, for one, would like the program to get back to where it was at the end of Majors' and the beginning of Fulmer's tenure. We went into every game, even against the most challenging teams, thinking there was a chance to win!

With Butch, not only do we not think we have a chance to win in most games but while the game is being played we're waiting for the meltdown preceding the loss. Ya'll remember-like Chavis' prevent defense preventing us from winning!

I'd much rather it get back to circa 1995-1999, a much better time, when we won 54 of 62 games, won 2 SEC titles and a national title.

 

[chargervol]

He got blasted for saying two things....1. Saying it takes 6-7 years to "really build an SEC program"....it was a ludicrous statement...2. "I've never discussed winning the SECe"

He should've gotten nailed for both statements and he was.

I don't remotely feel sorry for him. He makes $4mm+ per annum, his communication skills are awful and he apparently doesn't share the same goals/aspirations as so many rabid, lifelong Vols fans/supporters do, which is to win something meaningful.

Yes KB.
Basically, the answer is always he deserves to be "nailed".

I don't think he's elite, you find extreme fault with everything he does or says. It's my opinion my view is more realistic and you belive (imo), he is awful at mostly everything.