Butch and Dobbs

[American Pig]

Undeniable fact is that you said all your hours of preseason speculations came from the few minutes of video update from each practice

Nope - factually dead wrong, and dishonest! I said hundreds of throws. At least a couple hours reviewed in detail.
It's an undeniable fact, YOU have are judging Peterman based on EXTREMELY low playing time. I bothered to see what the coaches saw. You didn't.

Now, your right about reports coming out of camp saying Dobbs was struggling and I don’t deny that, but do you really think the other QBs never struggled in camp just because there were no reports. Dobbs was under the spot light because he finished the season out and also was indeed struggeling, but that doesn’t change the present, which makes your argument is SO irrelevant. I’m not claiming he was better than anyone in the pre-season but your evidence of a few minutes of video from each practice that is NEVER focused on JUST Dobbs is nothing close to enough for complete QB analysis. [/QUOTE]

Yep, Dobbs was terrible in preseason. Peterman was outstanding. Peterman competed with Worley for #1. Worley won the #1 spot, Peterman #2. That's what happened.

Sure he had a tough season last year, the whole team did. He was a true freshman too. Idk what else you want to hear. It wouldn’t have mattered if it was Dobbs or Peterman with the way the rest of the team was performing. Especially if you think Peterman needs playing time to improve.

.

Yes, Dobbs had a terrible start. Many inexperienced QB's struggle. A HALF-SEASON passing performance yielded six interceptions and two touchdowns. Peterman played one half of one game (half of that with a broken hand) and you guys dismiss him as terrible and
unworthy of development. The double standard is astounding.

Like I said, so what? Jones said himself the pre-season depth chart means nothing to the team and is more for the fans. The second the lights come on the first Saturday (Sunday) of the season the depth chart goes out the window. Now its game time performance that measures who starts EACH game, and who responds to game preparation, and game time situations.

I agree, things change. I think Dobbs should start now. I sure as hell KNOW that Peterman won the 2 spot based on performance and history has been rewritten by those who deny this fact. I KNOW that BS excuses Peterman bashers concocted to explain why Peterman was ahead of Dobbs all year was a whopping lie. Butch knows what really happened and has every reason to be less sold on Dobbs - thus explaining his reserving judgement on Dobbs. He also knows Peterman is better than most fans realize.

Nah **** it (the RS) didn’t happen, Worley got hurt and Dobbs was forced to play. Unless of course you don’t want the team to make it to a bowl game. If I didn’t care about the team winning and making it to the bowl game, I wish Peterman could play a whole game just so he can amplify his SKILLS that you said he has, that’s nobody has seen against high competition.

Agreed. It's a tough call. I think it was brilliant to bring out the 'new' Dobbs with the extra weight and speed to keep Bama off balance. It worked well for much of the game. SC too. We have become a better primary running attack.

Why do you deny the evidence that people have posted that have DIRECT information on Dobbs being RS’d in CBJs “perfect world”

I don't. Why would you think I denied it? It's just completely irrelevant. Of course, Dobbs gets a red shirt in a 'perfect world'. That's exactly what I argued. There was no major commitment to preserve Dobbs red-shirt. It was a 'perfect-world' scenario. The #3 QB gets a red shirt if we don't find a reason to use him. The point is that this supposed grand commitment of coaches (claimed by Peterman bashers) to preserving the Dobbs RS for next year was proven BS.

 

[BigTCountry]

Yep, Dobbs was terrible in preseason. Peterman was outstanding. Peterman competed with Worley for #1. Worley won the #1 spot, Peterman #2. That's what happened.


Yes, Dobbs had a terrible start. Many inexperienced QB's struggle. A HALF-SEASON passing performance yielded six interceptions and two touchdowns. Peterman played one half of one game (half of that with a broken hand) and you guys dismiss him as terrible and
unworthy of development. The double standard is astounding.

I agree, things change. I think Dobbs should start now. I sure as hell KNOW that Peterman won the 2 spot based on performance and history has been rewritten by those who deny this fact. I KNOW that BS excuses Peterman bashers concocted to explain why Peterman was ahead of Dobbs all year was a whopping lie. Butch knows what really happened and has every reason to be less sold on Dobbs - thus explaining his reserving judgement on Dobbs. He also knows Peterman is better than most fans realize.

Agreed. It's a tough call. I think it was brilliant to bring out the 'new' Dobbs with the extra weight and speed to keep Bama off balance. It worked well for much of the game. SC too. We have become a better primary running attack.

I don't. Why would you think I denied it? It's just completely irrelevant. Of course, Dobbs gets a red shirt in a 'perfect world'. That's exactly what I argued. There was no major commitment to preserve Dobbs red-shirt. It was a 'perfect-world' scenario. The #3 QB gets a red shirt if we don't find a reason to use him. The point is that this supposed grand commitment of coaches (claimed by Peterman bashers) to preserving the Dobbs RS for next year was proven BS.

#1 thing you need to understand is that the pre-season depth chart and practice helps the coaches analyze players WITHOUT real gametime situations. Which means the depth chart doesn't count for anything before the first snap. So your arguement is IRRELEVANT.

#2 Well, just like your statement at the end where you mention irrevelancy for subject of RS'ing Dobbs. Im stating that your arguement for Peterman being the "TRUE" backup in PRE-SEASON is also irrelevant. Since I have your agreeance that Dobbs should start now, my thought of your agruement being irrelevant has now been proven.

#3 Peterman bashers dont have a double standard actually, Dobbs may make some really stupid decisions but he also shows you every series what he's capable of, and Im not just talking about his running skills, he has an arm too. He doesnt need extra PT to prove his worth, he shows it all the time, and is obviously a very hard worker to come out and perform like he's been playing all season, and he hasnt got to throw much with the 1's all year before the Alabama game. He executes from the moment he steps on the field. Peterman simply don't do that. and thats why peterman is now (#2) and deservingly so, due to his inability to be any kind of playmaker upon entering the game for any amount of time excluding the UF game last year, Ive completely moved on from that who cares about last year. I wouldn't discount CBJs decision to not give him any PT. Would you put a linebacker in for AJ if he got hurt that missed tackles or couldnt fill the gaps, no you wouldnt. You'd put someone in that gives you results that their either game ready or dang close to it!

#4 Even if CBJ decided to purposely put Dobbs at #3 solely based on the fact that he was preserving him for the future which I think is a possibility, you have no counter or proof to whether or whether not thats true. So your wasting your keystrokes. CBJ and his staff have meetings that are definitely closed to public to make those decisions. And last time I checked the "American Pig" wasnt on the invite. Your arguements are of waste of data and bandwitdth on the spectrum when trying to prove something like that, that cant be proved.

I simply stated that Dobbs would have been redshirted if Worley doesnt get injured. You earlier stated that Dobbs was never going to be reshirted? Wrong. So what happens when you redshirt them. You are saving a year of eleigibility for later. Thus, preserving DOBBS skills for the future, which you have denied over and over again. I beleive you over critique what people say and twist their thoughts behind what their trying to prove and try to make it sound like a bad thing against peterman when they say he was going to be RS'd for the future. Of course, he was.

 

[VolNExile]

:boredom:

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

#1 thing you need to understand is that the pre-season depth chart and practice helps the coaches analyze players WITHOUT real gametime situations. Which means the depth chart doesn't count for anything before the first snap. So your arguement is IRRELEVANT.

#2 Well, just like your statement at the end where you mention irrevelancy for subject of RS'ing Dobbs. Im stating that your arguement for Peterman being the "TRUE" backup in PRE-SEASON is also irrelevant. Since I have your agreeance that Dobbs should start now, my thought of your agruement being irrelevant has now been proven.

#3 Peterman bashers dont have a double standard actually, Dobbs may make some really stupid decisions but he also shows you every series what he's capable of, and Im not just talking about his running skills, he has an arm too. He doesnt need extra PT to prove his worth, he shows it all the time, and is obviously a very hard worker to come out and perform like he's been playing all season, and he hasnt got to throw much with the 1's all year before the Alabama game. He executes from the moment he steps on the field. Peterman simply don't do that. and thats why peterman is now (#2) and deservingly so, due to his inability to be any kind of playmaker upon entering the game for any amount of time excluding the UF game last year, Ive completely moved on from that who cares about last year. I wouldn't discount CBJs decision to not give him any PT. Would you put a linebacker in for AJ if he got hurt that missed tackles or couldnt fill the gaps, no you wouldnt. You'd put someone in that gives you results that their either game ready or dang close to it!

#4 Even if CBJ decided to purposely put Dobbs at #3 solely based on the fact that he was preserving him for the future which I think is a possibility, you have no counter or proof to whether or whether not thats true. So your wasting your keystrokes. CBJ and his staff have meetings that are definitely closed to public to make those decisions. And last time I checked the "American Pig" wasnt on the invite. Your arguements are of waste of data and bandwitdth on the spectrum when trying to prove something like that, that cant be proved.

I simply stated that Dobbs would have been redshirted if Worley doesnt get injured. You earlier stated that Dobbs was never going to be reshirted? Wrong. So what happens when you redshirt them. You are saving a year of eleigibility for later. Thus, preserving DOBBS skills for the future, which you have denied over and over again. I beleive you over critique what people say and twist their thoughts behind what their trying to prove and try to make it sound like a bad thing against peterman when they say he was going to be RS'd for the future. Of course, he was.

BigT, I don't want to get into a long drawn out debate over this, but I have seen you post the comment about depth charts in preseason meaning nothing a couple of times. And I have to say that I humbly (and from my experience) disagree.

The depth chart means everything leading up to the first game. It is the yard stick by which all players are measured. Climbing that depth chart means everything to the players. Getting to the top of the depth chart is the goal. Get to the top and you start.

Being in the #1 at your position at game time means that your the starter 99% of the time. And 99% of the time the starting line up is the top of the depth chart.

Not sure where you got the idea that the depth chart is irrelevant. Its probably one of the most important documents that a coach will use. Not just from an evaluation or analyzation perspective, but to let the player know where he is in his performance and progression. Its one of the most important things used to motivate and propel the player to be the best at his position.

And yes, when the Coach releases the final depth chart prior to the first game, it is considered the starting line up. Its fluid during the season and probably changes from week to week. (Ie. injuries, position changes, performance etc.)

 

[KBVol]

BigT, I don't want to get into a long drawn out debate over this, but I have seen you post the comment about depth charts in preseason meaning nothing a couple of times. And I have to say that I humbly (and from my experience) disagree.

The depth chart means everything leading up to the first game. It is the yard stick by which all players are measured. Climbing that depth chart means everything to the players. Getting to the top of the depth chart is the goal. Get to the top and you start.

Being in the #1 at your position at game time means that your the starter 99% of the time. And 99% of the time the starting line up is the top of the depth chart.

Not sure where you got the idea that the depth chart is irrelevant. Its probably one of the most important documents that a coach will use. Not just from an evaluation or analyzation perspective, but to let the player know where he is in his performance and progression. Its one of the most important things used to motivate and propel the player to be the best at his position.

And yes, when the Coach releases the final depth chart prior to the first game, it is considered the starting line up. Its fluid during the season and probably changes from week to week. (Ie. injuries, position changes, performance etc.)

Jones himself, in a presser the last week or 2, said the depth chart means absolutely nothing to him and is scrutinized much more by media and fans than him or his coaches. Not arguing, just recounting what Jones said about it when asked.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Jones himself, in a presser the last week or 2, said the depth chart means absolutely nothing to him and is scrutinized much more by media and fans than him or his coaches. Not arguing, just recounting what Jones said about it when asked.

I didn't hear that, but it dosen't surprise me. At this point in the season probably so, because of the fluidity. Its gonna be fluid because of the different factors that influence it from week to week. Last weeks depth chart could be meaningless because of injuries, poor play etc. But I can guarantee you that the depth chart that is released at the end of the week and prior to the game is the starting line up. Of course, it always comes with the caveat of "subject to change."

 

[KBVol]

I didn't hear that, but it dosen't surprise me. At this point in the season probably so, because of the fluidity. Its gonna be fluid because of the different factors that influence it from week to week. Last weeks depth chart could be meaningless because of injuries, poor play etc. But I can guarantee you that the depth chart that is released at the end of the week and prior to the game is the starting line up. Of course, it always comes with the caveat of "subject to change."

I've also heard Swain say on his show that there were many times where his name was not #1 on the depthchart and was not announced as a starter during pregame on the PA, yet he started and played more than the guy supposedly ahead of him. I admittedly don't understand why that would be, but it evidently is a pretty standard thing.

 

[BigTCountry]

BigT, I don't want to get into a long drawn out debate over this, but I have seen you post the comment about depth charts in preseason meaning nothing a couple of times. And I have to say that I humbly (and from my experience) disagree.

The depth chart means everything leading up to the first game. It is the yard stick by which all players are measured. Climbing that depth chart means everything to the players. Getting to the top of the depth chart is the goal. Get to the top and you start.

Being in the #1 at your position at game time means that your the starter 99% of the time. And 99% of the time the starting line up is the top of the depth chart.

Not sure where you got the idea that the depth chart is irrelevant. Its probably one of the most important documents that a coach will use. Not just from an evaluation or analyzation perspective, but to let the player know where he is in his performance and progression. Its one of the most important things used to motivate and propel the player to be the best at his position.

And yes, when the Coach releases the final depth chart prior to the first game, it is considered the starting line up. Its fluid during the season and probably changes from week to week. (Ie. injuries, position changes, performance etc.)

I was repeating what CBJ has said before and during the season to the fans and media.Its not my idea, but if it was personally when Ive coached the only way a player knows what the depth chart really says... IS when he gets his number called in practice to go in 1st team offense/defense and he stays there from then on by earning it, but any player should know that can change if his performance doesnt stay consistent. The depth chart is never a stable source of whos actually going to be playing on the 28th, 49th, or last play of the game, or game 2, 7 9 of the season, people improve, digress, etc, etc, etc.

Esp the pre-season depth chart

All Im saying is just bc Peterman was number 2 for a little bit doesnt mean Dobbs didnt belong there all along, and Dobbs proved that. Just sucks that we had to burn a redshirt and start him to find that out.

 

[sjt18]

You're both fools for continuing the argument.

I'm just having fun... you can call it a personal flaw that I like to tease until the object of the teasing gives up.

There is no real argument. Worley was named the #1 QB ending that competition. No one in the media or among the fans know who the coaches had scored #2. Their process is far more complex than watching the passing drills that they let the media view and video. Since Worley was #1, they intended to RS Dobbs to save a year of eligibility while he developed. If Dobbs had already RS'd and Peterman had not... then the likely would have RS'd NP. The back up role really only becomes significant if the #1 guy can't go.

When #1 got hurt... the plan to RS Dobbs was changed and he quickly became the starter.

The fuss comes primarily from two people who think that the small portion of August practice they were allowed to see or reporters were allowed to report on can be interpreted as NP "winning" the #2 job. Most who are paying attention know that the coaches have a scoring system to evaluate QB's that includes all facets of play and not just passing drills. American Pig even claims that the gap between NP and JD was wide.

The ONLY way this can be true is if Dobbs REALLY improved and Peterman either regressed or never had what it took to be the next man up after Worley. If the coaches had confidence in NP then it would have taken more than 2 series for them to yank him.

 

[butchna]

BigT, I don't want to get into a long drawn out debate over this, but I have seen you post the comment about depth charts in preseason meaning nothing a couple of times. And I have to say that I humbly (and from my experience) disagree.

The depth chart means everything leading up to the first game. It is the yard stick by which all players are measured. Climbing that depth chart means everything to the players. Getting to the top of the depth chart is the goal. Get to the top and you start.

Being in the #1 at your position at game time means that your the starter 99% of the time. And 99% of the time the starting line up is the top of the depth chart.

Not sure where you got the idea that the depth chart is irrelevant. Its probably one of the most important documents that a coach will use. Not just from an evaluation or analyzation perspective, but to let the player know where he is in his performance and progression. Its one of the most important things used to motivate and propel the player to be the best at his position.

And yes, when the Coach releases the final depth chart prior to the first game, it is considered the starting line up. Its fluid during the season and probably changes from week to week. (Ie. injuries, position changes, performance etc.)

Didn't matter this time...#2 went to #1 for 2 series then #3 went to #1x Infinity....math formulas suck sometimes huh?

 

[sjt18]

Once again, you lied about me denying facts, then failed to demonstrate a single valid example when challenged. As predicted, you offered a wordy response without an answer to distract from the FACT you can't provide an answer.

I haven't lied about anything. I have posted several times the things you were incorrect about or denied. I don't think you are worthy of having them detailed again. You have not demonstrated the capacity or the humility to take an honest look and acknowledge your error.

Facts matter son. Your problem is with the facts and evidence. Popular opinion can't save you when you must lie, evade, distract, dance and spin and say anything to avoid holding yourself accountable to the facts and evidence.

This is a lie... or else a self-indictment.

The other beaten Peterman haters will stroke you for encouragement as you choke and flounder trying to defend your foolish myth against a mountain of evidence, but it's hollow. They know you've hit the wall. They see you can't answer the same questions they failed to answer.

Your questions and objections have been answered. You have ignored the ones you can't answer only to come back later as you have here to claim that the questions have not been asked.

I don't hate Peterman. I wish he had his act together. I frankly don't care which of them plays as long as it is the best player. I think NP has physical skills. I think he's a bright guy. He just can't put it together when it comes time to perform in game pressure.

But hey, don't feel too bad. Somebody had to lose. Losing may be just your style.

You are delusional. You've lost on every point. You've ignored and denied facts. You have vainly refused to acknowledge errors and mistakes... and you deluded yourself into thinking sophomoric tactics make you a "winner".

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Didn't matter this time...#2 went to #1 for 2 series then #3 went to #1x Infinity....math formulas suck sometimes huh?

I guess if you don't understand math. However, it don't have jack to do with what we were discussing. The discussion was about depth charts being relevant.

 

[butchna]

I guess if you don't understand math. However, it don't have jack to do with what we were discussing. The discussion was about depth charts being relevant.

Sure it does...recalculate. :geek:... In this formula it shows how 3>2<1. :idea:

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

I was repeating what CBJ has said before and during the season to the fans and media.Its not my idea, but if it was personally when Ive coached the only way a player knows what the depth chart really says... IS when he gets his number called in practice to go in 1st team offense/defense and he stays there from then on by earning it, but any player should know that can change if his performance doesnt stay consistent. The depth chart is never a stable source of whos actually going to be playing on the 28th, 49th, or last play of the game, or game 2, 7 9 of the season, people improve, digress, etc, etc, etc.

Esp the pre-season depth chart

All Im saying is just bc Peterman was number 2 for a little bit doesnt mean Dobbs didnt belong there all along, and Dobbs proved that. Just sucks that we had to burn a redshirt and start him to find that out.

Yeah, but you and I both know that when a coach says something like that he is basically covering his own ass. That's why its always followed with "subject to change".

When I played, admittedly 32 yrs ago, the day before the walk through (before a game) we would meet with our position coach's and the very first thing we would talk about was the depth chart. How we graded out etc. Its how they would let us know where we stood. Obviously there is a whole lot more to it, but that's basically what it all came down to.

Last team meeting before the game the depth chart would be put on the overhead and the line up set. Do some house cleaning and then we would break up for the game plan session.

The saying was "climb the depth chart".

 

[sjt18]

Yep, Dobbs was terrible in preseason. Peterman was outstanding. Peterman competed with Worley for #1. Worley won the #1 spot, Peterman #2. That's what happened.

Prove it. You can prove that Peterman was listed #2.... though someone posted the actual depth chart for USU and it lists the #2 QB as "Nate Peterman or Josh Dobbs". What you cannot prove is that he "won" that role.

Also you need "prove" that Dobbs was terrible in preseason over the course of the whole month. You can do that by showing the coaches scoring of their performances. Maybe you don't understand what that involves? Here's what I know about it.

They film every rep of every practice in drills and live work then critique and score it. They score everything from knowledge of the system, choosing the right receiver, handing the ball off properly, making the correct line calls, and running. If I am not badly mistaken, they even have classroom sessions and score them along with film study skills.

You have "seen" one very small fraction of what the coaches have evaluated... and assumed that it was decisive.

Yes, Dobbs had a terrible start. Many inexperienced QB's struggle. A HALF-SEASON passing performance yielded six interceptions and two touchdowns.

And a 60% completion ratio for 695 yards. Four of the 5 opponents he faced were ranked. Three were top 10 teams.

Peterman played one half of one game (half of that with a broken hand) and you guys dismiss him as terrible and
unworthy of development. The double standard is astounding.

I haven't done that. He simply has not played well in live game pressure. I have actually shown respect for his physical ability. But it isn't just a half. Even if the injury occurred when you say it occurred which you have NEVER proven... he was 1 of 5 with a pick at that point. He actually went 3 for 6 AFTER you claim he broke his hand.

But he didn't look much if any better vs UGA and was ineffective vs Bama. He may still have potential... but he isn't as good as Dobbs and it ain't close.

I sure as hell KNOW that Peterman won the 2 spot based on performance and history has been rewritten by those who deny this fact.

No. You simply don't "know" that. If you think you do... then you are self-deluded. You are lying to yourself. You may think against good reasoning that he did... but unless you actually have the info that the coaches use and do not share with the public... you don't "know" it.

Butch knows what really happened and has every reason to be less sold on Dobbs - thus explaining his reserving judgement on Dobbs. He also knows Peterman is better than most fans realize.

This flies in the face of the plain facts. Jones actually came back the next day and realized he'd kind of overstated. Of course that doesn't fit your agenda so Jones must be lying.

Agreed. It's a tough call. I think it was brilliant to bring out the 'new' Dobbs with the extra weight and speed to keep Bama off balance. It worked well for much of the game. SC too. We have become a better primary running attack.

Peterman is a better runner than Worley. If the had been the true #2 then the run game would have improved also. He is just more of a threat to get that 8 or 10 years than Worley.

You just can't admit that when the coaches looked at the WHOLE package that each of those two QB's... it was Dobbs hands down.

Of course, Dobbs gets a red shirt in a 'perfect world'. That's exactly what I argued. There was no major commitment to preserve Dobbs red-shirt. It was a 'perfect-world' scenario. The #3 QB gets a red shirt if we don't find a reason to use him.

It would not have mattered whether he was #3, #2, or #5. He wasn't the starter so a RS was a good plan. Peterman already used his so regardless of who "won" #2... Peterman was the ONLY candidate to play the back up role if Dobbs was to RS.

The point is that this supposed grand commitment of coaches (claimed by Peterman bashers) to preserving the Dobbs RS for next year was proven BS.

No. They were committed until they knew they needed him... the actual #2... to play. As long as Worley was healthy, they were committed to RSing Dobbs. That commitment quickly shifted to doing what was best for the team.

 

[mmoosem]

What I heard by watching Coach Jones presser was he wanted to see more consistency in practice from Dobbs.


Nothing bad in that, I've always heard since playing sports from a young age you play like you practice.

No real secret. CBJ was not happy with his practice from the beginning of the season. Probably what kept him from being the starter earlier.

GBO

 

[mmoosem]

Prove it. You can prove that Peterman was listed #2.... though someone posted the actual depth chart for USU and it lists the #2 QB as "Nate Peterman or Josh Dobbs". What you cannot prove is that he "won" that role.

Also you need "prove" that Dobbs was terrible in preseason over the course of the whole month. You can do that by showing the coaches scoring of their performances. Maybe you don't understand what that involves? Here's what I know about it.

They film every rep of every practice in drills and live work then critique and score it. They score everything from knowledge of the system, choosing the right receiver, handing the ball off properly, making the correct line calls, and running. If I am not badly mistaken, they even have classroom sessions and score them along with film study skills.

You have "seen" one very small fraction of what the coaches have evaluated... and assumed that it was decisive.

And a 60% completion ratio for 695 yards. Four of the 5 opponents he faced were ranked. Three were top 10 teams.

I haven't done that. He simply has not played well in live game pressure. I have actually shown respect for his physical ability. But it isn't just a half. Even if the injury occurred when you say it occurred which you have NEVER proven... he was 1 of 5 with a pick at that point. He actually went 3 for 6 AFTER you claim he broke his hand.

But he didn't look much if any better vs UGA and was ineffective vs Bama. He may still have potential... but he isn't as good as Dobbs and it ain't close.

No. You simply don't "know" that. If you think you do... then you are self-deluded. You are lying to yourself. You may think against good reasoning that he did... but unless you actually have the info that the coaches use and do not share with the public... you don't "know" it.

This flies in the face of the plain facts. Jones actually came back the next day and realized he'd kind of overstated. Of course that doesn't fit your agenda so Jones must be lying.

Peterman is a better runner than Worley. If the had been the true #2 then the run game would have improved also. He is just more of a threat to get that 8 or 10 years than Worley.

You just can't admit that when the coaches looked at the WHOLE package that each of those two QB's... it was Dobbs hands down.

It would not have mattered whether he was #3, #2, or #5. He wasn't the starter so a RS was a good plan. Peterman already used his so regardless of who "won" #2... Peterman was the ONLY candidate to play the back up role if Dobbs was to RS.

No. They were committed until they knew they needed him... the actual #2... to play. As long as Worley was healthy, they were committed to RSing Dobbs. That commitment quickly shifted to doing what was best for the team.

Would you repeat that please ??:snoring::snoring::snoring:

 

[KBVol]

Would you repeat that please ??:snoring::snoring::snoring:

You're several days late to a running debate. Trust me, his is the far better, reasoned, factual, logical argument than what the blithering idiot he's debating spews out.

 

[MustafaRasta]

You're several days late to a running debate. Trust me, his is the far better, reasoned, factual, logical argument than what the blithering idiot he's debating spews out.

:good!:

 

[BigTCountry]

Yeah, but you and I both know that when a coach says something like that he is basically covering his own ass. That's why its always followed with "subject to change".

When I played, admittedly 32 yrs ago, the day before the walk through (before a game) we would meet with our position coach's and the very first thing we would talk about was the depth chart. How we graded out etc. Its how they would let us know where we stood. Obviously there is a whole lot more to it, but that's basically what it all came down to.

Last team meeting before the game the depth chart would be put on the overhead and the line up set. Do some house cleaning and then we would break up for the game plan session.

The saying was "climb the depth chart".

Sure maybe thats true that hes covering, but why would he be, every coach knows the depth chart is going to change.

Sure I remember walk throughs as well. Seems like I remember someone jumping in front of someone on the depth chart every week at the positions where competitions were taking place. Depths charts from a fan perspective though, it'd be hard to use them to prove anything besides who's starting the first series of the UPCOMING game. Other than that to a fan, means nothing because we don't have all the information that got the player to 1st 2nd or 3rd on the chart. We can just make assumptions.

 

[mcompton]

lol @ this thread. It's like Christmas. I wake up and can't wait to see the gifts left to enjoy.

 

[American Pig]

I haven't lied about anything. I have posted several times the things you were incorrect about or denied.

No, you have not found a single flaw in anything I argued. You have in fact serially misrepresented what I argued even after being corrected. That is a lie. You know what you are claiming about my positions is false. lie about them anyway - hoping people won't read my actual statements or corrections of your lie. You have in fact claimed that I argued that coaches did not intend to redshirt Dobbs. That is a lie. You have claimed that I denied evidence. That is a lie. You have accused me of not answering questions I have answered multiple times. That is yet another lie. You have accused me of lying, yet failed to demonstrate a single example when challenged. That is yet another lie.

Now, demonstrate a lie from me. You can't. You are simply lying when you claim it.


The fact is, I openly acknowledge when I make an error in judgement, while you don't. You lie and deny, spin, deflect, obfuscate and pump out verbal diarrhea responses that answer nothing.
For example, I underestimated Dobbs running ability to some guy on VN. When I saw Dobbs bulked up with speed, I found the guy and told him outright I was wrong to underestimate him.

You, in fact have been proven wrong on Petermans excellent performance in preseason, winning the #2 spot, while Dobbs struggled terribly. Everyone in the media or witnessed camp saw this. This is not debatable. It happened. Instead of being honest, you ignore the mountain of evidence while demanding proof. Any idiot can deny anything. Any dishonest idiot can say 'prove it' while ignoring the evidence. That's exactly what you are doing. You simply refuse to hold yourself accountable.

You have in fact been proven wrong to misrepresent my argument as claiming coaches never intended to RS Dobbs. In fact, I never argued that.

You were in fact proven dead wrong about Peterman's broken thumb in the Florida meltdown. Like that weasel KBVol, when proven wrong, you simply shift and dodge questions while kicking up BS spin.

You were in fact proven wrong to claim coaches desire to preserve Dobbs via redshirt as the reason he was behind Peterman. Rather than admit the fact that Dobbs lost to Peterman in preseason, you keep denying it happened, ignoring evidence and asking for proof.

You are now lying to claim you had nothing against Peterman. You were among the hacks attacking him and harshly condemning his performance. That's how you came on my radar screen.


Once again, you cannot demonstrate a single flaw in my arguments. You seem incapable of knowing the difference between an argument and some tangential point. You have the debate acumen of a 13 year old adolescent. You seem to think that blabbering irrelevant BS is a substitute for answers and feigning pretenses is a substitute for holding yourself accountable to facts and evidence.

My arguments against the unwarranted attacks on Peterman and rewriting history are perfectly intact. I have demonstrated your harsh judgments dismissing a kid with negligible playing experience, who played FL with a broken hand, has strong bona fide's and solid passing skills to be unwarranted. I have demonstrated the rewriting of history to explain why Peterman was #2 to be false. These are my arguments. Nobody has made a scratch in them.

 

[tenninohio]

lol @ this thread. It's like Christmas. I wake up and can't wait to see the gifts left to enjoy.

I wish these guys would just get a room

 

[sjt18]

Would you repeat that please ??:snoring::snoring::snoring:

Yep... I've saved most of it now so that I can just cut and paste.

 

[sjt18]

No, you have not found a single flaw in anything I argued. You have in fact serially misrepresented what I argued even after being corrected. That is a lie. You know what you are claiming about my positions is false. lie about them anyway - hoping people won't read my actual statements or corrections of your lie. You have in fact claimed that I argued that coaches did not intend to redshirt Dobbs. That is a lie. You have claimed that I denied evidence. That is a lie. You have accused me of not answering questions I have answered multiple times. That is yet another lie. You have accused me of lying, yet failed to demonstrate a single example when challenged. That is yet another lie.

Now, demonstrate a lie from me. You can't. You are simply lying when you claim it.


The fact is, I openly acknowledge when I make an error in judgement, while you don't. You lie and deny, spin, deflect, obfuscate and pump out verbal diarrhea responses that answer nothing.

Pretty much everything you wrote here is false. You lied... and lied about others lying. It seems to be your "thing".

For example, I underestimated Dobbs running ability to some guy on VN. When I saw Dobbs bulked up with speed, I found the guy and told him outright I was wrong to underestimate him.

Dobbs was the best runner of the three before he bulked up. And it wasn't close. The others didn't miss him much in straight line speed if any... but like being a QB... there's more to it than one facet.

But you just can't quite grasp something that complex, can you?

You, in fact have been proven wrong on Petermans excellent performance in preseason, winning the #2 spot, while Dobbs struggled terribly.

No. That in fact is another fabrication by you. You have not provided proof. Video clips of the QB's passing against air isn't "proof" of one guy beating another guy out. There's more to being a QB than that.

Everyone in the media or witnessed camp saw this.

Yet when challenged you cannot cite a single quote from anyone who said that Peterman "won" the #2 spot. Do you understand why you can't? Because they didn't say it. Do you know why? Because even the closest and most informed reporters know that the staff doesn't share the actual grading with them. For several days, some of the same people you claim declared Peterman #2 thought that NP or at one point Dobbs had passed Worley. Later Hubbs I believe said that a coach told him "off the record" that the competition was never really close

The truth is even if you found the quotes I'm asking for... it wouldn't matter unless it actually came from a coach. Reporters OFTEN do not understand what's going on in practice.

This is not debatable. It happened. Instead of being honest, you ignore the mountain of evidence while demanding proof.

I know that you are very impressed with yourself... but your opinion is not proof... and you have not cited credible proof from anyone else.

You were in fact proven dead wrong about Peterman's broken thumb in the Florida meltdown. Like that weasel KBVol, when proven wrong, you simply shift and dodge questions while kicking up BS spin.

No I wasn't. You have yet to cite a quote saying when Peterman's injury occurred. You claimed it happened on his first INT. I responded simply that he was 1 of 5 at that point with an INT and then went 3 of 6 from that point until he was pulled.

You were in fact proven wrong to claim coaches desire to preserve Dobbs via redshirt as the reason he was behind Peterman. Rather than admit the fact that Dobbs lost to Peterman in preseason, you keep denying it happened, ignoring evidence and asking for proof.

No. That is simply untrue. You are either knowingly the worst liar to ever "grace" this board or else the most self-deluded person to every grace this board. Congratulations.

You are now lying to claim you had nothing against Peterman. You were among the hacks attacking him and harshly condemning his performance. That's how you came on my radar screen.

Peterman does not play well under real game pressure. He's had 3 opportunities now to do it and failed each time. He failed BEFORE and after his injury at UF. He failed against UGA. He failed against Bama.

He's a good kid. He seems plenty bright. I have been complimentary of his physical skills. He throws a nice ball and has good mobility. He's never shown he has the right mental make up.

Once again, you cannot demonstrate a single flaw in my arguments.

I have. You are simply blind.

My arguments against the unwarranted attacks on Peterman and rewriting history are perfectly intact.

I'm sure that's true in Narnia where you apparently live. In the real world... even your one ally keeps his distance. Even he knows that your arguments don't hold water even though he somewhat agrees with your conclusion.