Butch and Dobbs

#301
#301
FLSTF-VOL said:
I'm not debating the present with anyone. It speaks for its self. The statement was made that Peterman did not win the backup job, which is simply not true. The very fact that he (Peterman) was listed as the #2 behind Worley makes that a fact. Not conjecture, but fact. All rationalization in the world will not change that as "fact". By all accounts Peterman did in fact outperform Dobbs in camp.

Coach's don't make decisions based on "perception or possible" they have to make them based on what they see in practice. They may have thought that Dobbs had the potential, but they couldn't make that decision based on 'thought". Football is a performance based business, perform in practice, perform well in a game and you play. They could have taken a chance on Dobbs, but based on practice it could have been a losing proposition if he didn't perform how they may have "thought" he could. Does anyone think coach's make decisions based on "thought"? Peterman on the other hand, had probably shown the staff what they were looking for in "practice".

I don't know any of this as fact, but by Peterman being named the backup and from all the reports about Dobbs performing badly its really the logical answer.

All this other stuff is just conjecture from people defending their opinions. Its all perception, until someone on the staff comes out and makes a statement proclaiming that Dobbs was the true #2, not Peterman, its a mute point.

Dobbs is the #1 right now and is playing well. That's all that really matters.
Click to expand...

Peterman was the 2 until we needed a starter to finish the last 5 games of the season.
 
#302
#302
FLSTF-VOL said:
I'm not debating the present with anyone. It speaks for its self. The statement was made that Peterman did not win the backup job, which is simply not true. The very fact that he (Peterman) was listed as the #2 behind Worley makes that a fact. Not conjecture, but fact. All rationalization in the world will not change that as "fact". By all accounts Peterman did in fact outperform Dobbs in camp.

Coach's don't make decisions based on "perception or possible" they have to make them based on what they see in practice. They may have thought that Dobbs had the potential, but they couldn't make that decision based on 'thought". Football is a performance based business, perform in practice, perform well in a game and you play. They could have taken a chance on Dobbs, but based on practice it could have been a losing proposition if he didn't perform how they may have "thought" he could. Does anyone think coach's make decisions based on "thought"? Peterman on the other hand, had probably shown the staff what they were looking for in "practice".

I don't know any of this as fact, but by Peterman being named the backup and from all the reports about Dobbs performing badly its really the logical answer.

All this other stuff is just conjecture from people defending their opinions. Its all perception, until someone on the staff comes out and makes a statement proclaiming that Dobbs was the true #2, not Peterman, its a mute point.

Dobbs is the #1 right now and is playing well. That's all that really matters.
Click to expand...

Most of this thread is pointless to me mostly becuase neither side can say its a fact one way or another. The meaningless depth chart gave them a piontless pre-season order (CBJ has said multiple times that his depth chart means absolutely nothing and its just for the fans)and that was it. If people argue that Dobbs wasnt going to be reshirted in CBJ's "perfect world" than their denying what coach HAS said.

To my knowledge, no one has heard from a coach that Peterman beat him out for the job to back up Worley, all we have to go on is the depth chart and media reports (two very unstable resources that mean nothing). With the depth chart originally consisting of 2 qbs and a redshirt QB that they addmittedly were trying to RS.

Draw the conclusions you want but smart coaches make smart decisions. You dont redshirt a highly recruited QB just becuase he sucks or isnt ready, you do infact redshirt him to develop him and save him for the future. Thats why you redshirt kids anyway aside from injury!

Im sure CBJ never wasted anytime thinking about his TRUE #2 QB and just made sure they were preparing as if they were both going to start. But what I said is an assumption just like all the other post who beleive they live inside CBJ's head.

Go Vols!! Go Dobbs! I will joyfully watch the game this Saturday while the American Pig is warming the bench hopefully his butt is glued to the bench or were in trouble!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#303
#303
BeecherVol said:
Peterman was the 2 until we needed a starter to finish the last 5 games of the season.
Click to expand...

But he was the default #2 because they planned to redshirt Dobbs.....

"If you’re wondering why Vols sophomore quarterback Josh Dobbs didn’t come into the game against Georgia when Justin Worley was injured, it’s because Butch Jones hopes to redshirt him."
-Zach Ragan
All For Tennessee website

If you're planning to redshirt a guy he can't go into a game, hence he can't be the backup. What makes this crystal clear is the fact that once UT actually needed their "second best quarterback" to play because Worley was out, it was and continues to be Dobbs that they chose to lead the team. If Peterman had been the clearcut #2, he would've gone in and stayed in and Butch wouldn't have announced PRIOR to the Bama game that "both quarterbacks, Peterman and Dobbs will play". Dobbs' redshirt would've remained in tact and Peterman would've started and played vs Bama, SCar and indeed this Saturday vs Kentucky. But that's far from what has happened. They put in who they thought was their second best qb behind Worley, and it was and continues to be Joshua Dobbs....and they were right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#304
#304
KBVol said:
But he was the default #2 because they planned to redshirt Dobbs.....

"If you’re wondering why Vols sophomore quarterback Josh Dobbs didn’t come into the game against Georgia when Justin Worley was injured, it’s because Butch Jones hopes to redshirt him."
-Zach Ragan
All For Tennessee website

If you're planning to redshirt a guy he can't go into a game, hence he can't be the backup. What makes this crystal clear is the fact that once UT actually needed their "second best quarterback" to play because Worley was out, it was and continues to be Dobbs that they chose to lead the team. If Peterman had been the clearcut #2, he would've gone in and stayed in and Butch wouldn't have announced PRIOR to the Bama game that "both quarterbacks, Peterman and Dobbs will play". Dobbs' redshirt would've remained in tact and Peterman would've started and played vs Bama, SCar and indeed this Saturday vs Kentucky. But that's far from what has happened. They put in who they thought was their second best qb behind Worley, and it was and continues to be Joshua Dobbs....and they were right.
Click to expand...

Are you being truthful ?
 
#306
#306
FLSTF-VOL said:
I'm not debating the present with anyone. It speaks for its self. The statement was made that Peterman did not win the backup job, which is simply not true.
Click to expand...
The fact is you cannot say that he "won" the position based on what we have in actual direct evidence. The two most important pieces of that evidence are that the coaches did not declare that Peterman had beaten Dobbs out. They declared Worley the starter. Then according to their own statements made the decision to RS Dobbs. After that decision, Peterman was the #2 whether by default or "winning" it. Second, when Worley went down, Dobbs took over in a planned move after only two series. If Peterman has EVER been the clear number 2... a guy they felt they could rely on to win games for them.... then there would have been absolutely NO reason to change the planned RS for Dobbs. It was only the fact that Peterman was NOT a viable #2 that made it necessary to play Dobbs.

The very fact that he (Peterman) was listed as the #2 behind Worley makes that a fact. Not conjecture, but fact.
Click to expand...
No. It absolutely DOES NOT. If both players had already RS'd and Peterman had been named #2 then you could conclude that he had "won" the position. Once the decision was made to RS Dobbs... it was a moot point.

All rationalization in the world will not change that as "fact". By all accounts Peterman did in fact outperform Dobbs in camp.
Click to expand...
Not true. The only quote you have posted from a single window in time had to be interpreted by you to mean something that the writer didn't even say.

"All accounts" would have included the most important accounts... the coaches. They didn't say Peterman beat Dobbs out. They did say that with Worley starting they hoped to RS Dobbs.

Coach's don't make decisions based on "perception or possible" they have to make them based on what they see in practice. They may have thought that Dobbs had the potential, but they couldn't make that decision based on 'thought". Football is a performance based business, perform in practice, perform well in a game and you play. They could have taken a chance on Dobbs, but based on practice it could have been a losing proposition if he didn't perform how they may have "thought" he could. Does anyone think coach's make decisions based on "thought"? Peterman on the other hand, had probably shown the staff what they were looking for in "practice".
Click to expand...
Coaches do not in fact make decisions based solely on perceived potential and the like. They also do not analyze practice the way reporters and fans do. They've made that clear many times. They have measures that look at game mgt, running ability, decision making, etc.

When forced to compare Dobbs to Peterman to determine who the best option was after Worley... it took them all of a week of practice and two series to determine the guy who had been running scout team was their best option. Jancek didn't say that Dobbs had been shredding the D on the scout team "of late"... he said he'd done it all season.

I don't know any of this as fact, but by Peterman being named the backup and from all the reports about Dobbs performing badly its really the logical answer.
Click to expand...
And... Crompton started over Ainge in 2006, right? I mean all of the reports on JC were glowing. Great arm. Good mobility. Making all the throws. Great scrimmage stats. Then poor ol' Ainge... his career was over. He was broken. He couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a barn in practice.

The truth is that Ainge was being challenged differently. It is also the truth that Cut never liked Crompton or believed he had the head to be a good SEC QB. It is very "logical" to assume that this staff who seems to evaluate the quality of every breath these players take... would KNOW that Nate struggles when the lights come on.

All this other stuff is just conjecture from people defending their opinions. Its all perception, until someone on the staff comes out and makes a statement proclaiming that Dobbs was the true #2, not Peterman, its a mute point.
Click to expand...
Yeah.... except for the fact that they HAVE come out and said that Dobbs was going to RS which means he would not be considered for #2... unless Worley got hurt.

What you believe is PURE conjecture and nothing but. It flies in the face of what we know about the players, the coaches, and what has happened.

Dobbs is the #1 right now and is playing well. That's all that really matters.
Click to expand...
Should be... but it apparently isn't to American Pig.

I can buy that you and I just look at this differently and believe the weight of proof points in different directions. Pig apparently believes that there is ironclad PROOF that NP "won" the job over Dobbs based on passing drill video.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#307
#307
BigTCountry said:
Most of this thread is pointless to me mostly becuase neither side can say its a fact one way or another.
Click to expand...

Actually... that's not what the two sides have said.

One side made up basically of two people has declared that Peterman "won" the back up role over Dobbs.

The other side made up of pretty much everyone else... mostly agrees with what you wrote after this opening. Dobbs was going to RS so there was no decision to make about who "won" the back up role. The coaches never made any declaration about who they considered their 2nd best QB after Worley because it simply was not necessary for their plan. Peterman had already used his RS... Dobbs had not.

The ONLY way the depth chart would have had any meaning at all is if both Dobbs and Peterman had burned their RS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#308
#308
FTR.... I still like both of these kids. I STILL think both have the physical tools to be good QB's. I do not now nor have I ever had a favorite "horse" in this race.

All I'm doing or have done is tried to interpret the actions and words of the coaches.

One thing that has not been discussed very much is that Jones just doesn't give up on players very easily. If Peterman had "won" the #2 job in Jones' eyes.... then he would have gotten A LOT more than two series. This is Jones' pattern and habit over his career as HC.
 
#309
#309
After reading the Tuesday practice Fast Five on 247, it sounds like Dobbs still isn't consistent in practice. However, the way it reads, it seems like he is overthinking his mechanics and not just playing ball. That may be a reason he plays better than he practices, because he doesn't have time to think, he just reacts. With that being said, CBJ may be riding him to practice better so he doesn't fall into the lull of overthinking in a game situation. Also, some players react differently to different types of criticism and coaching. Maybe, he sees that Dobbs can handle the tough coaching approach while Worley didn't react well to tough criticism, rather he needed praise and "atta boys".
 
#311
#311
KBVol said:
But he was the default #2 because they planned to redshirt Dobbs.....

"If you’re wondering why Vols sophomore quarterback Josh Dobbs didn’t come into the game against Georgia when Justin Worley was injured, it’s because Butch Jones hopes to redshirt him."
-Zach Ragan
All For Tennessee website

If you're planning to redshirt a guy he can't go into a game, hence he can't be the backup. What makes this crystal clear is the fact that once UT actually needed their "second best quarterback" to play because Worley was out, it was and continues to be Dobbs that they chose to lead the team. If Peterman had been the clearcut #2, he would've gone in and stayed in and Butch wouldn't have announced PRIOR to the Bama game that "both quarterbacks, Peterman and Dobbs will play". Dobbs' redshirt would've remained in tact and Peterman would've started and played vs Bama, SCar and indeed this Saturday vs Kentucky. But that's far from what has happened. They put in who they thought was their second best qb behind Worley, and it was and continues to be Joshua Dobbs....and they were right.
Click to expand...

That was covered under Peterman being the 2 until we needed a starter to finish the season.
 
Last edited:
#315
#315
sjt18 said:
The fact is you cannot say that he "won" the position based on what we have in actual direct evidence. The two most important pieces of that evidence are that the coaches did not declare that Peterman had beaten Dobbs out. They declared Worley the starter. Then according to their own statements made the decision to RS Dobbs. After that decision, Peterman was the #2 whether by default or "winning" it. Second, when Worley went down, Dobbs took over in a planned move after only two series. If Peterman has EVER been the clear number 2... a guy they felt they could rely on to win games for them.... then there would have been absolutely NO reason to change the planned RS for Dobbs. It was only the fact that Peterman was NOT a viable #2 that made it necessary to play Dobbs.

No. It absolutely DOES NOT. If both players had already RS'd and Peterman had been named #2 then you could conclude that he had "won" the position. Once the decision was made to RS Dobbs... it was a moot point.

Not true. The only quote you have posted from a single window in time had to be interpreted by you to mean something that the writer didn't even say.

"All accounts" would have included the most important accounts... the coaches. They didn't say Peterman beat Dobbs out. They did say that with Worley starting they hoped to RS Dobbs.

Coaches do not in fact make decisions based solely on perceived potential and the like. They also do not analyze practice the way reporters and fans do. They've made that clear many times. They have measures that look at game mgt, running ability, decision making, etc.

When forced to compare Dobbs to Peterman to determine who the best option was after Worley... it took them all of a week of practice and two series to determine the guy who had been running scout team was their best option. Jancek didn't say that Dobbs had been shredding the D on the scout team "of late"... he said he'd done it all season.

And... Crompton started over Ainge in 2006, right? I mean all of the reports on JC were glowing. Great arm. Good mobility. Making all the throws. Great scrimmage stats. Then poor ol' Ainge... his career was over. He was broken. He couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a barn in practice.

The truth is that Ainge was being challenged differently. It is also the truth that Cut never liked Crompton or believed he had the head to be a good SEC QB. It is very "logical" to assume that this staff who seems to evaluate the quality of every breath these players take... would KNOW that Nate struggles when the lights come on.

Yeah.... except for the fact that they HAVE come out and said that Dobbs was going to RS which means he would not be considered for #2... unless Worley got hurt.

What you believe is PURE conjecture and nothing but. It flies in the face of what we know about the players, the coaches, and what has happened.


Should be... but it apparently isn't to American Pig.

I can buy that you and I just look at this differently and believe the weight of proof points in different directions. Pig apparently believes that there is ironclad PROOF that NP "won" the job over Dobbs based on passing drill video.
Click to expand...
Man, your simply hanging your hat on the idea that Dobbs was being redshirted. Your not even considering the why. Your contending that Peterman was named the backup by default.

I contend that Dobbs was being redshirted because they felt like he simply wasn't ready and needed another year. I'm sure the decision was based on the totality of how he performed overall in the spring and preseason. The very fact that they went ahead and decided to redshirt him is proof (at least in my eyes) that Peterman had outperformed him or at the very least was that far ahead. Enough so that making the decision to redshirt him was a comfortable one.

Actually, I think having to play Dobbs scares the hell out of CBJ. I think thats why he is trying to put the brakes on all the Dobbs hype. There is something in the way that Dobbs practices that unsettles the staff and I think they are seriously concerned that its gonna show itself in one of these games and cost us big time.

Before all of you start blasting me, its just my opinion based on what I have seen and heard from CBJ and staff. I have no proof of it. Just an opinion.

Just to be clear, I am not in any way saying that Dobbs should not be our QB right now. I'm excited by his play as much as any of you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#316
#316
American Pig said:
Butch didn't perpetuated the rumor that Dobbs was being preserved for next year as the reason he was #3 behind Peterman.
Where did Butch say that?
Are you denying that Peterman beat Dobbs to take over #2 spot in summer QB competition?

Of course, you'll evade answering. Facts matter.
Click to expand...

You're one of the best trolls on this site. Never would have expected this thread to go to 21 pages.

I give you a direct quote from a printed story with a video of the head coach saying he wanted to red shirt Dobbs and you still deny he had anything to do with the "rumor".

Integrity matters pig, integrity matters.

Find something else to troll about, your'e getting exceptionally boring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#317
#317
KBVol said:
What? Don't quite understand your point. Honest question, please elaborate.
Click to expand...

Dobbs wasn't gonna see the field unless Worley went down with a season ending injury. Mop time or short term stays for injury to Worley (Georgia) would be filled by Peterman. When Worley went down (for the season) Dobbs was the starter because he was the only guy on the roster that could make a bowl game.

I think we are arguing the same thing.
 
#318
#318
FLSTF-VOL said:
Man, your simply hanging your hat on the idea that Dobbs was being redshirted. Your not even considering the why. Your contending that Peterman was named the backup by default.

I contend that Dobbs was being redshirted because they felt like he simply wasn't ready and needed another year. I'm sure the decision was based on the totality of how he performed overall in the spring and preseason. The very fact that they went ahead and decided to redshirt him is proof (at least in my eyes) that Peterman had outperformed him or at the very least was that far ahead. Enough so that making the decision to redshirt him was a comfortable one.

Actually, I think having to play Dobbs scares the hell out of CBJ. I think thats why he is trying to put the brakes on all the Dobbs hype. There is something in the way that Dobbs practices that unsettles the staff and I think they are seriously concerned that its gonna show itself in one of these games and cost us big time.

Before all of you start blasting me, its just my opinion based on what I have seen and heard from CBJ and staff. I have no proof of it. Just an opinion.

Just to be clear, I am not in any way saying that Dobbs should not be our QB right now. I'm excited by his play as much as any of you.
Click to expand...

But he all of a sudden figured out the game the week after Worley got hurt.

Im sure some of the brake pumping by Jones and the staff now is to slow some of the "Why hasn't Dobbs been on the field til now?" questions.
 
#319
#319
BeecherVol said:
Dobbs wasn't gonna see the field unless Worley went down with a season ending injury. Mop time or short term stays for injury to Worley (Georgia) would be filled by Peterman. When Worley went down (for the season) Dobbs was the starter because he was the only guy on the roster that could make a bowl game.

I think we are arguing the same thing.
Click to expand...

Perfect. We are indeed. Thanks.
 
#321
#321
Vols' Utah State Week Depth Chart
Vols' Utah State Week Depth Chart - UTSPORTS.COM - University of Tennessee Athletics
Quarterback
14 Justin Worley

12 Nathan Peterman
- OR -
11 Joshua Dobbs

You might notice that the URL is utsports.com
I would think that the “OR” means at that time they were deemed equal.
Pig if fault can be found in your arguments it is the name calling and attempting to degrade everyone with an opposing opinion. You sound a little like the CBS analyst Gary Danielson, in that in trying to backup your arguments with professing to know what the coach is thinking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#322
#322
BeecherVol said:
But he all of a sudden figured out the game the week after Worley got hurt.

Im sure some of the brake pumping by Jones and the staff now is to slow some of the "Why hasn't Dobbs been on the field til now?" questions.
Click to expand...
If that's the way you choose to see it. I personally don't. Too many people saying the same thing about how bad Dobbs had performed in the spring and preseason. They can't all be wrong. But, hey I'm just a fan and have no idea whats going on in these coachs head.
 
#324
#324
WolfenVOL said:
Vols' Utah State Week Depth Chart
Vols' Utah State Week Depth Chart - UTSPORTS.COM - University of Tennessee Athletics
Quarterback
14 Justin Worley

12 Nathan Peterman
- OR -
11 Joshua Dobbs

You might notice that the URL is utsports.com
I would think that the “OR” means at that time they were deemed equal.
Pig if fault can be found in your arguments it is the name calling and attempting to degrade everyone with an opposing opinion. You sound a little like the CBS analyst Gary Danielson, in that in trying to backup your arguments with professing to know what the coach is thinking.
Click to expand...

Nice job Wolfen. Unfortunately, facts, evidence, documentation and general common sense just have no impact for some on here, including the particular blithering idiot you're addressing here. Get ready for the temper tantrum likely to come your way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#325
#325
FLSTF-VOL said:
If that's the way you choose to see it. I personally don't. Too many people saying the same thing about how bad Dobbs had performed in the spring and preseason. They can't all be wrong. But, hey I'm just a fan and have no idea whats going on in these coachs head.
Click to expand...

It is. Im not basing all of that off what the press is allowed to see/video or what the coaches make in public comments. Jones is pretty coy behind a mic.

I don't doubt he had some rough moments in the preseason. Heck, most all of them did including Worley. Dobbs seemed to be made more public than most at that time (it may have been that they expected more out of him at that point).
I don't know that I buy, "he just flipped it on, or just got it" the week Worley goes out, and then took that on to USC.

Im just glad the position is being played at a high level for a change. No matter who is in the spot.
 
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top