Bryce Brown (CLOSED)

[wheaton4prez]

Hmm Kiffin committed much more to the run than Chow did, and had two 1000-yard rushers and a Heisman Trophy winner...they went downhill running the ball more after Kiffin left than Chow

Coincidentally, right around the time that the players Chow would have had a hand in recruiting started to graduate.

the highlighted portion being the problem with your argument.

Look at it for yourself: Alabama Commit List for 2009

USC wasn't the only team that wanted the players from their #1 ranked recruiting class after Kiffin left.

They were talented, but didn't fit the system. CLK knows what he has to have in his system and seeks it, rather than star counts and 40 times.

Kiffin was only OC for two years. The guys he recruited during that time are the ones who would be playing now. Chow was directing who was needed for what system for players who were ready to play in 05, 06.

 

[wheaton4prez]

To argue that talent is all it takes to win in college football on a UT board is to admit you don't know anything about UT football.

To argue that past national titles has any bearing on future chances of success with completely different players and staff is to admit that you believe in magic.

 

[BigPapaVol]

To argue that past national titles has any bearing on future chances of success with completely different players and staff is to admit that you believe in magic.

to argue that historical (ir)relevance has no bearing on recruiting is absolutely silly.

 

[NashVol11]

Coincidentally, right around the time that the players Chow would have had a hand in recruiting started to graduate.



Look at it for yourself: Alabama Commit List for 2009

USC wasn't the only team that wanted the players from their #1 ranked recruiting class after Kiffin left.



Kiffin was only OC for two years. The guys he recruited during that time are the ones who would be playing now. Chow was directing who was needed for what system for players who were ready to play in 05, 06.

This post relies almost entirely on the premise that the success of an offense relies on the high school talent of the players more than the coaches who mold them. Kiffin's successful offenses were apparently good because of Chow's recruits, who coincidentally decided to start playing much better under Kiffin than they did under Chow. Their lack of success now (comparatively) is due to Kiffin recruiting bad players, not them playing for a worse coordinator now. Not at all.

 

[utmba93]

To argue that past national titles has any bearing on future chances of success with completely different players and staff is to admit that you believe in magic.

What is the basis of your argument about talent?

Rivals ranks UT higher in 2007 (#3 class in the Nation) and 2009 (the current class without Brown and others who may join).

Oregon had the 19th best class in 2008 which is higher than UT that year. Is that the talented class to which you refer?

Btw, I couldn't find a 5* player on your list since 2007. Is that why you are salivating so much over this one?

 

[millst987]

really has gotten off subject guys....

 

[wheaton4prez]

See if you can figure out which years USC had the best offenses they've ever fielded, figure out who the OC was that year, then find out who recruited the players to make it work.

I follow the Pac-10. Norm Chow was behind player selection for the kids that were of playing age during the 05 and 06 season. Kiffin just called the plays.

and you're quoting a 17 year old, apparently wishy washy, HS football player.

I don't think he's wishy washy at all. imo, that's just the hype that goes with being the #1 recruit. From what he has said, I think he's level headed.

I couldn't find Oregon ranked on this list:

Get a clue. You have nothing more than a HS's opinion that Oregon has more talent than UT.

Wait. I thought rankings didn't matter? Do they matter or not?

If Oregon lands Brown and Gaines clears up whatever issue is in the way of him being a Duck, I'm pretty sure that Oregon's ranking for this class will be right around where UT is, if not higher.

to argue that historical (ir)relevance has no bearing on recruiting is absolutely silly.

It does bear on recruiting in some cases. Sometimes, players value that as fans of a program in addition to just being players. But, if a player is just looking at what team he fits best with and has a good supporting cast, it is not logical to factor in historical wins credited to people long gone from the program.

 

[utmba93]

really has gotten off subject guys....

That's what trolls do. The guy keeps coming here pumping Oregon to promote them to Brown on a UT board. I suggested banning him as a troll earlier. That would keep the thread on track.

 

[millst987]

just ignore him... hes a loser feelin a lil worried bout losing brown

 

[wheaton4prez]

This post relies almost entirely on the premise that the success of an offense relies on the high school talent of the players more than the coaches who mold them. Kiffin's successful offenses were apparently good because of Chow's recruits, who coincidentally decided to start playing much better under Kiffin than they did under Chow. Their lack of success now (comparatively) is due to Kiffin recruiting bad players, not them playing for a worse coordinator now. Not at all.

I don't think I rely on that premise entirely. The system matters too. Kiffin executed Chow's system. The only time Kiffin has ever entered any system that needed fixing was at Oakland. It didn't turn out well.

 

[toxicdonut]

the dude brings up good points

 

[toxicdonut]

just ignore him... hes a loser feelin a lil worried bout losing brown

i like him

 

[wheaton4prez]

What is the basis of your argument about talent?

The basis of my argument about talent is that, whatever the rivals stars are, according to every ranking I've seen, most people project the Ducks to do better than UT.

Rivals ranks UT higher in 2007 (#3 class in the Nation)

However, on the field, this class was involved in a 5-7 season while Oregon was 10-3. I think, and analysts apparently do as well, that the results speak for themselves.

Btw, I couldn't find a 5* player on your list since 2007. Is that why you are salivating so much over this one?

Not because of the stars. But, because Brown is such a great fit for Oregon, yes. We are excited at the prospect of him choosing to be a Duck.

 

[XtennesseeX]

I don't think I rely on that premise entirely. The system matters too. Kiffin executed Chow's system. The only time Kiffin has ever entered any system that needed fixing was at Oakland. It didn't turn out well.

Yeah, because taking over a team that went 15-49 in their previous four seasons, and not making the playoffs in year one, is such a failure.

 

[utmba93]

I follow the Pac-10. Norm Chow was behind player selection for the kids that were of playing age during the 05 and 06 season. Kiffin just called the plays.

Who was the recruiting coordinator at USC when the 2005 and 2006 players were recruited?
I don't think he's wishy washy at all. imo, that's just the hype that goes with being the #1 recruit. From what he has said, I think he's level headed.

I think Brown is the only evidence you've provided to support your claim that Oregon has better talent. That makes him suspect in evaluating talent while weakening the logic of your appeal to him as an authority in that regard.


Wait. I thought rankings didn't matter? Do they matter or not?

Preseason football rankings are meaningless. If that's news to you, I'd suggest following them more closely.

If Oregon lands Brown and Gaines clears up whatever issue is in the way of him being a Duck, I'm pretty sure that Oregon's ranking for this class will be right around where UT is, if not higher.

You might redo the math. UT is in play for other recruits--and I do agree with BPV that CLK has proven himself superior to the folks at Rivals. I'm sure they are superior to you, so their rankings are better than your opinion. If that happens, guess who will still has a decent shot at a NC while Brown wastes him time in Oregon. For the past three years, you have to win the SEC to win the NC. Last time I checked, Oregon had no chance of winning the SEC.

It does bear on recruiting in some cases. Sometimes, players value that as fans of a program in addition to just being players. But, if a player is just looking at what team he fits best with and has a good supporting cast, it is not logical to factor in historical wins credited to people long gone from the program.

Again, UT has more talent than has Oregon and it has far better coaches. That is the supporting cast. A win in the Pac 10 is not a equal to a win in the SEC.

See Orange comments...

 

[wheaton4prez]

That's what trolls do. The guy keeps coming here pumping Oregon to promote them to Brown on a UT board. I suggested banning him as a troll earlier. That would keep the thread on track.

Actually, I was stopping in to see if I could find any info on how the Brown trip was going. I only chimed in because there was some Oregon bashing.

just ignore him... hes a loser feelin a lil worried bout losing brown

I don't know if he's ours to lose. I'm not worried about "losing" him. If he doesn't want to go to Oregon, he doesn't want to. It's his life. But, I am curious to know and, right now, he's at UT. So, I'm just looking for info.

Anyway, thank you for the insult.

the dude brings up good points

Thank you, sir.

I don't have anything against UT. All teams have their hecklers. Maybe Kiffin will turn the program around. Can't blame a UT fan for wanting that. Just, from an outside perspective, I don't think he's the guy that will do it.

 

[utmba93]

The basis of my argument about talent is ... strictly opinion.


However, on the field, this class was involved in a 5-7 season while Oregon was 10-3. I think, and analysts apparently do as well, that the results speak for themselves.

SEC win-loss records are not comparable to Pac 10 win-loss records. UT senior class is 24-15 while Oregon's senior class is 26-13. Neither of those meet UT expectations. We replaced our coach. You may promote yours to AD. The programs are world's apart whether you or Brown realize it.


Not because of the stars. But, because Brown is such a great fit for Oregon, yes. We are excited at the prospect of him choosing to be a Duck.

There should be no debate at Oregon. In four years, you haven't recruited that level of talent. UT had 5 5* athletes into the current senior class. We play defense in the SEC.

fyp plus orange comments...

 

[wheaton4prez]

Yeah, because taking over a team that went 15-49 in their previous four seasons, and not making the playoffs in year one, is such a failure.

Thank you! And taking over Norm Chow's USC team and doing well for two years is such a success!

See Orange comments...

You're invoking arguments about magic again.

Pre-season rankings are meaningless but rivals stars aren't? What news are you reading, Mad Magazine?

 

[utmba93]

Actually, I was stopping in to see if I could find any info on how the Brown trip was going. I only chimed in because there was some Oregon bashing.

And your false claims simply got your team bashed even more, but it's good for the record.

That's fine, Brown can rethink his thoughts if for some crazy reason he thinks the Ducks are anywhere close to the Vols.

For example, he may not have known that
1) Oregon has NEVER won a NC;
2) that the SEC champ has won it 3 years running, so if he wants to win championships, he needs to play in the best league;
3) that the Vols have more elite talent in their rising senior class alone than Oregon has recruited over the past three years;
4) that Kiffin recruited the players and then coached the USC offense about which he speaks and thus has some insights into what that takes and how to make it happen; and, of course,
5) that your grandfather played for the 1894 Ducks, although he doesn't know who you are.

 

[utmba93]

You're invoking arguments about magic again.

That's a punt.

 

[tennessee391]

Kiffin said Bryce's name on the radio this morning and has to report another secondary recruiting violation.

 

[Return2Power]

I'm not bashing the Ducks wheaton....I like the Ducks. YES....BB fits at Oregan because he has mostly ran the spread draw so far from what I've seen. Comparing the talent is a whole different can of worms. The Ducks CAN'T match The Vols athletically. Period. The Ducks were really fun to watch before DD got hurt and then they couldn't stick their beaks in their tail feathers.

 

[wheaton4prez]

And your false claims simply got your team bashed even more, but it's good for the record.

Actually, I feel that I've done well to provide solid logic against mostly flag-waving and insults. I also think that I've done the program a service if, in your efforts to win an argument, you learned a little more about Oregon researching stats, etc. Clearly, knowledge was lacking for some.

In the face of relevant facts that I have provided, you guys keep going back to irrelevant ancient-history and pixie-dust conference arguments.

For example, he may not have known that
1) Oregon has NEVER won a NC;
2) that the SEC champ has won it 3 years running, so if you want to win championships, you need to play in the best league;
3) that the Vols have more elite talent in their rising senior class alone than Oregon has recruited over the past three years;
4) that Kiffin recruited the players and the coached the USC offense about which he speaks and thus has some insights into what that takes and how to make it happen; and, of course,
5) that your grandfather played for the 1894 Ducks, although he doesn't know who you are.

1) They sure were close in 2007. Chip Kelly's first year with the Ducks. I think it's quite possible in the near future, with or without Brown.

2) Yes. We all know by now that you believe that SEC teams have a 12th player on the team named Tinker Bell.

3) Yet. They went 5-7 last year and lost to Wyoming. While the Ducks, with, according to you, less talent, went 10-3.

4) Kiffin rode Chow's coat tails. It is yet to be seen whether or not he can craft a winning system from a losing one.

5) That was your misunderstanding. Not mine.

 

[wheaton4prez]

That's a punt.

I didn't want to go for it on 4th when I'm already up by 28. Wouldn't be sportsman-like.

I'm not bashing the Ducks wheaton....I like the Ducks. YES....BB fits at Oregan because he has mostly ran the spread draw so far from what I've seen. Comparing the talent is a whole different can of worms. The Ducks CAN'T match The Vols athletically. Period. The Ducks were really fun to watch before DD got hurt and then they couldn't stick their beaks in their tail feathers.

They owned South Florida after that. Most people thought the Bulls had it in the bag.

Was a bad season for injuries for Oregon. Dixon was just the one everyone heard about. Before that, they lost Paysinger, Johnson, Colvin and Dixons back-up QB. So yeah, losing Dixon took some time to over-come. But, Kelly did it by the bowl game.

 

[utmba93]

In the face of relevant facts that I have provided, you guys keep going back to irrelevant ancient-history and pixie-dust conference arguments.

What is irrelevant about comparing the current class. You insist on using nothing more than last season's win-loss records. That's as much flag-waving and insulting as anything I've done, imo.



1) They sure were close in 2007. Chip Kelly's first year with the Ducks. I think it's quite possible in the near future, with or without Brown.

UT fans do NOT care so much about being close. If we did, UT lost on a pick 6 to LSU in the SEC championship. LSU went on to win the 2008 NC. We fired our staff after the season you think describes UT football. It's NOT horseshoes. Close does NOT count.

2) Yes. We all know by now that you believe that SEC teams have a 12th player on the team named Tinker Bell.

No Tinker Bell claims have been made. There's nothing false about saying the SEC champ has been the NC for the past three seasons. It's stating a FACT. NO magic!

3) Yet. They went 5-7 last year and lost to Wyoming. While the Ducks, with, according to you, less talent, went 10-3.

This is the only UT stat you have acknowledged. It's shows so much bias. If you're going to post here, why don't you learn something more about UT football? Last season, in no way, defines our tradition.

4) Kiffin rode Chow's coat tails. It is yet to be seen whether or not he can craft a winning system from a losing one.

Again, Pete Carroll's opinion >>>>>>>>> wheaton4prez
5) That was your misunderstanding. Not mine.

It's your only sense of history beyond last season. Your grandfather played for the Ducks at some point. If that is true (taking your word as no support has been provided), what we know for a fact, is that his team did NOT win a NC.

Go Vols!

Btw... I have nothing against Oregon. They're just not on UT's level in college football.