Birmingham News (AL.com) All-SEC offense -> Dobbs, Weisman

#104
#104
fade route said:
If you think Hurd is better than Fournette and Chubb then you need your head examined.
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Last season? He could be correct. Why? Chubb has not demonstrated he could play two full seasons back to back. Chubb was as good a RB as you and I were sitting on our couches watching TV for the bulk of last season. Fournette got how many rushing yards against the NC Bama D vs Hurd? I do think Fournette had a better season and was a better RB last season. Chubb? Hell to the naw!! Sony Michel was a better RB for UGA than was Chubb last season, Chubb wasn't the best on his own team much less the SEC.
 
#106
#106
Remy said:
Last season? He could be correct. Why? Chubb has not demonstrated he could play two full seasons back to back. Chubb was as good a RB as you and I were sitting on our couches watching TV for the bulk of last season. Fournette got how many rushing yards against the NC Bama D vs Hurd? I do think Fournette had a better season and was a better RB last season. Chubb? Hell to the naw!! Sony Michel was a better RB for UGA than was Chubb last season, Chubb wasn't the best on his own team much less the SEC.
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Remy, I get it dude, you're anti-Chubb, you're not particularly impressed with him, you think he's overrated. I get it bro, you're not a fan, it's your opinion. No worries.

But come on buddy, Michel was better last year? Based on what?

Behind the same exact OL, with the same exact QBs, in the same exact offensive scheme.....Chubb averaged right 3 more yards per carry than Michel and had nearly as many total tds despite more than 150 fewer touches.

Again, you just don't see it in Nick Chubb, it's your opinion, I can respect that. But "Sony Michel was a better running back for UGA last year"? Nah. Other than not being the victim of a gruesome knee injury like Chubb....just, nah.
 
#108
#108
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
Hurd being 2nd team instead of 1st is a joke.
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It's a much bigger "joke" that Dobbs is the first team QB over Kelly IMO. That's just the truth. I love Dobbs, but come on. No doubt that Josh is one of the better qbs in the country and second best in the SEC....but there's no way to justify him being picked over Kelly, the gap between the two is pretty wide. Might as well go ahead and name Malone as a first team WR over Ridley, it's practically the same thing.
 
#109
#109
KBVol said:
It's a much bigger "joke" that Dobbs is the first team QB over Kelly IMO. That's just the truth. I love Dobbs, but come on. No doubt that Josh is one of the better qbs in the country and second best in the SEC....but there's no way to justify him being picked over Kelly, the gap between the two is pretty wide. Might as well go ahead and name Malone as a first team WR over Ridley, it's practically the same thing.
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Yeah KB I agree with you on that point. Hurd and Chubb are much closer IMO
 
#110
#110
Remy said:
Last season? He could be correct. Why? Chubb has not demonstrated he could play two full seasons back to back. Chubb was as good a RB as you and I were sitting on our couches watching TV for the bulk of last season. Fournette got how many rushing yards against the NC Bama D vs Hurd? I do think Fournette had a better season and was a better RB last season. Chubb? Hell to the naw!! Sony Michel was a better RB for UGA than was Chubb last season, Chubb wasn't the best on his own team much less the SEC.
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Wait, a guy gets his knee destroyed and that's something to be held against him? That's tantamount to me putting a .44 slug in both your shoulders and giving you grief for not being able to give me 20 pushups.

Let's set aside opinions and subjective observations and get all empirical up in here. Prior to his injury Chubb had accumulated 2294 yards on his first 311 carries as a collegian. How many SEC backs are in that conversation? (the carries aren't identical because I wasn't going to try and look up individual game stats so carries are rounded to the nearest game totals)

Chubb
311 2294 7.4ypc

Herrick Henry
327-2037 6.2

Leonard Fournette
306-2056 6.7

Hershel Walker
304-1777 5.8

Bo Jackson
305-2138 7.0

And just for some name recognition

Christian McCaffrey
302-1815 6.0

To say Chubb's been productive through his first 300 collegiate carries is an understatement...it's nothing short of top tier elite.
 
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#111
#111
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
Yeah KB I agree with you on that point. Hurd and Chubb are much closer IMO
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Agree. While I do believe Chubb is better, I don't think the gap is that big. The biggest difference between Hurd and Chubb....in fact between Hurd and the elite backs in the country.....is the ability to threaten the defense to score from anywhere on the field...specifically from long distances 50+ yards out. The elite backs have shown a pretty consistent ability to break off a long TD run at any point, whereas Jalen simply hasnt shown that ability after two full seasons and nearly 500 carries.
 
#112
#112
VFL-82-JP said:
The single biggest omission I see is Trevor Daniel. First team pick JK Scott (AL), with 44.2 ypp, and Second teamer Johnny Townsend (FL) with 45.4 ypp, are both good punters. But Trevor Daniel not only beat their averages by a bit (45.7 ypp), he also made his best punts at really key points in some of the games.

And the writer absolutely got Townsend's write-up wrong, when he said that Townsend "averaged a league-best 45.4 yards per punt,...third in the country and first in the SEC." Drew Kaser of A&M had the highest SEC average, at 47.5. Trevor was second. Townsend third.
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Agree with this. With our potential defense, the kicking game will be critical and can bail us out of bad situations.
 
#114
#114
KBVol said:
Agree. While I do believe Chubb is better, I don't think the gap is that big. The biggest difference between Hurd and Chubb....in fact between Hurd and the elite backs in the country.....is the ability to threaten the defense to score from anywhere on the field...specifically from long distances 50+ yards out. The elite backs have shown a pretty consistent ability to break off a long TD run at any point, whereas Jalen simply hasnt shown that ability after two full seasons and nearly 500 carries.
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quite an interesting debate of opinions going on through out this thread and others.

While rushing stats and production seem to clearly support this side of the debate...I do think there is more to the equation. I tend to lean towards the other side just because I think Hurd is a "complete" back. His blocking and receiving are as good or better than a lot of other top tier backs.

Not sure if the top gear notion is on target, but I do know I love to see this young man run and many times it seems he likes contact more than being a finesse guy. Can't honestly say I wouldn't take Fournette...it'd be a hard choice for me personally, but I'll take Hurd over just about every other runner that'll be playing CFB next year.
 
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#115
#115
VFL-82-JP said:
The single biggest omission I see is Trevor Daniel. First team pick JK Scott (AL), with 44.2 ypp, and Second teamer Johnny Townsend (FL) with 45.4 ypp, are both good punters. But Trevor Daniel not only beat their averages by a bit (45.7 ypp), he also made his best punts at really key points in some of the games.

And the writer absolutely got Townsend's write-up wrong, when he said that Townsend "averaged a league-best 45.4 yards per punt,...third in the country and first in the SEC." Drew Kaser of A&M had the highest SEC average, at 47.5. Trevor was second. Townsend third.
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Well, it's like Cam Sutton, Derek Barnett and JRM have been saying for years: "Why should lazy, coach-pandering reporters be expected to actually read or count when there is a perfectly fallable national editor/sports network willing to tell them where to put their vote?"
 
#116
#116
KBVol said:
Remy, I get it dude, you're anti-Chubb, you're not particularly impressed with him, you think he's overrated. I get it bro, you're not a fan, it's your opinion. No worries.

But come on buddy, Michel was better last year? Based on what?

Behind the same exact OL, with the same exact QBs, in the same exact offensive scheme.....Chubb averaged right 3 more yards per carry than Michel and had nearly as many total tds despite more than 150 fewer touches.

Again, you just don't see it in Nick Chubb, it's your opinion, I can respect that. But "Sony Michel was a better running back for UGA last year"? Nah. Other than not being the victim of a gruesome knee injury like Chubb....just, nah.
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KB Michel had 1147 total rushing yards last year. Played the whole season. Chubb had a total of 747 rushing yards and could not participate the whole season. Who the heck you think had a better season, contributed more as a RB to the 2015 version of the dawgs? Look I get it, you're a Chubb fanboy, but he could be the next Lattimore, greatest RB in the SEC to what, have one great season and watch everybody play for two?
 
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#117
#117
Remy said:
KB Michel had 1147 total rushing yards last year. Played the whole season. Chubb had a total of 747 rushing yards and could not participate the whole season. Who the heck you think had a better season, contributed more as a RB to the 2015 version of the dawgs? Look I get it, you're a Chubb fanboy, but he could be the next Lattimore, greatest RB in the SEC to what, have one great season and watch everybody play for two?
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Do what? The ONLY reason Michel had more yards last season is because he was able to remain injury free and got 150+ more touches than Chubb after the freak, gruesome knee injury. Period.

I know you hate the kid, but a league-leading 8.1 yards per carry is better than a middle of the pack 5.3 yards per carry all day every day. And you guys, for once, can't fall back on the "he played behind a great OL while Michel played behind an awful one", since the played on the same team, behind the same OL.

Just curious, got any thoughts on Todd Gurley? Was he awful and overrated too? Because if your answer is no, I'd ask why not, since Chubb put up very similar numbers, as a true freshman, that Gurley did his junior year behind the same OL in the same offense a couple years ago.

Actually, I stand corrected....since Gurley was injured that year and couldn't finish the season, if we use your logic, Chubb was a better running back for UGA in 2014.

So basically, if we rank the best 3 running UGA running backs over the last two seasons, if must be 1. Michel 2. Chubb 3. Gurley
 
#118
#118
KBVol said:
Do what? The ONLY reason Michel had more yards last season is because he was able to remain injury free and got 150+ more touches than Chubb after the freak, gruesome knee injury. Period.

I know you hate the kid, but a league-leading 8.1 yards per carry is better than a middle of the pack 5.3 yards per carry all day every day. And you guys, for once, can't fall back on the "he played behind a great OL while Michel played behind an awful one", since the played on the same team, behind the same OL.

Just curious, got any thoughts on Todd Gurley? Was he awful and overrated too? Because if your answer is no, I'd ask why not, since Chubb put up very similar numbers, as a true freshman, that Gurley did his junior year behind the same OL in the same offense a couple years ago.

Actually, I stand corrected....since Gurley was injured that year and couldn't finish the season, if we use your logic, Chubb was a better running back for UGA in 2014.

So basically, if we rank the best 3 running UGA running backs over the last two seasons, if must be 1. Michel 2. Chubb 3. Gurley
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You're too obsessed with numbers man. Numbers that are subject to many factors outside of a players skill level.

Chubb could run for 3000 yards next year, and there is NO way he gets drafted as high as Gurley. That guy was special. Chubb is a Doug Martin clone. Good player but not exceptional.

See Derrick Henry as an example of why numbers have very little to do with skill level of draft position.
 
#119
#119
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You're too obsessed with numbers man. Numbers that are subject to many factors outside of a players skill level.

Chubb could run for 3000 yards next year, and there is NO way he gets drafted as high as Gurley. That guy was special. Chubb is a Doug Martin clone. Good player but not exceptional.

See Derrick Henry as an example of why numbers have very little to do with skill level of draft position.
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You're gonna get skewered for this.

Can you understand how some of us question Dobbs' accuracy, even though his 3rd down conversion percentage blah blah blah? It's subjective.
 
#120
#120
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You're too obsessed with numbers man. Numbers that are subject to many factors outside of a players skill level.

Chubb could run for 3000 yards next year, and there is NO way he gets drafted as high as Gurley. That guy was special. Chubb is a Doug Martin clone. Good player but not exceptional.

See Derrick Henry as an example of why numbers have very little to do with skill level of draft position.
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You're doing that thing you do...right now. A college player is EXACTLY as elite as what they are doing in college. If Chubb (or whoever actually) rushes for 3000yds next year he'll have had the most productive season for a RB in collegiate history and be a MASSIVE asset for his team.

Once again, your observations on the NFL potential of a player are completely, totally, utterly and in all ways absolutely meaningless when we're talking about college players playing college football.
 
#121
#121
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You're too obsessed with numbers man. Numbers that are subject to many factors outside of a players skill level.

Chubb could run for 3000 yards next year, and there is NO way he gets drafted as high as Gurley. That guy was special. Chubb is a Doug Martin clone. Good player but not exceptional.

See Derrick Henry as an example of why numbers have very little to do with skill level of draft position.
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1. Who said anything about where Chubb will be drafted in relation to Gurley? Wasn't even discussed.

2. I know you're young and inexperienced, but typically, people's performances in all walks of life are measured empirically, numerically, statistically. And if you have a damn near perfect situation where you can control for all the variables like the situation with the UGA RBs, such as the players playing playing behind the same OL, in the same offensive scheme, getting the same type of carries as the #1 running back....then you can make a very fair, very comparison of Chubb and Gurley and then Chubb and Michel with respect to how productive and effective they are.

3. I'm very consistent with numbers because they're far and away the best objective, relative measure of how well a player performs. Stats/numbers are universally used to discuss players in all sports at all levels and are most often used as the primary criteria for why a player deserves an accolade or honor. They're not perfect, not the end all be all, but IMHO, they beat the hell out of someone's subjective opinion that's typically buttressed by "just because I said or think so". Unlike you, I don't use numbers to support my opinion and then dismiss them when they don't.

4. Henry was the second RB taken behind another elite college RB, who was the only RB taken in the first round. If you think Henry isn't a very skilled athlete, especially at his size, then you confirm what most everybody on here thinks of you and your "evaluation skills"....which isn't much.
 
#122
#122
Coach_Z said:
You're gonna get skewered for this.

Can you understand how some of us question Dobbs' accuracy, even though his 3rd down conversion percentage blah blah blah? It's subjective.
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I never based my opinion of Dobbs on his 3rd down stats. I did it based on watching every snap he's taken as a Vol. I'm eye test all the way.

Letting stats do your reasoning is the quickest way to end up like the Cleveland Cavaliers. Yeah I know this is a different sport but just bear with me. They traded the #1 overall pick (Andrew Wiggins) for guy (Kevin Love) who averaged 25 PPG and 15 RPG on his previous team thinking they were getting an elite player. Now they find themselves better when he ain't on the floor.

Eye test over stats anyday.
 
#123
#123
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I never based my opinion of Dobbs on his 3rd down stats. I did it based on watching every snap he's taken as a Vol. I'm eye test all the way.

Letting stats do your reasoning is the quickest way to end up like the Cleveland Cavaliers. Yeah I know this is a different sport but just bear with me. They traded the #1 overall pick (Andrew Wiggins) for guy (Kevin Love) who averaged 25 PPG and 15 RPG on his previous team thinking they were getting an elite player. Now they find themselves better when he ain't on the floor.

Eye test over stats anyday.
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You may have glaucoma. :hi:
 
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#124
#124
KBVol said:
That's utterly insane dude. You're letting your bias and arrogance talk here. I love Jalen, am thrilled he's a Vol and am looking for another outstanding season from him. But I can put my Vol homerism aside long enough to see that he's the 3rd best back in the SEC this year, which, in and of itself, is still outstanding.
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Fact of the matter is that Chubb is a huge question mark coming off that horrific injury. It may take half a season for him to regain his form. Then again, he may never be the same (hopefully that's not the case as he is a great kid from what I can tell).
 
#125
#125
HuntlandVolinColo said:
Fact of the matter is that Chubb is a huge question mark coming off that horrific injury. It may take half a season for him to regain his form. Then again, he may never be the same (hopefully that's not the case as he is a great kid from what I can tell).
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The knee injury is the wildcard for sure. However, medical advances and procedures put guys back on field routinely these days back at 100% or very close to it after bad injuries. If he's healthy and back at 100% or very close to it, he's definitely the second best RB in the conference IMHO.
 
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