Barnes:Player Development

#151
#151
cncchris33 said:
IMO, you take Ulis because Punter already does the things that Hield can do while we currently have no one who can do what Ulis does. Ulis makes everyone around him better and provides elite defense. Most importantly, he allows Punter to be solely a scorer.
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I respect that

I would like to see a stat saying what % punters PTs are coming from the FT line as opposed to the norm. IMO he doesn't score as much without having the ball in his hands like a PG
 
#152
#152
BruinVol said:
I respect that

I would like to see a stat saying what % punters PTs are coming from the FT line as opposed to the norm. IMO he doesn't score as much without having the ball in his hands like a PG
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True, but the PGs primary job/objective would/should be to get the ball in the hands of your best player, in this case, Kevin Punter. So, I doubt that his touches change all that much.
 
#153
#153
cncchris33 said:
True, but the PGs primary job/objective would/should be to get the ball in the hands of your best player, in this case, Kevin Punter. So, I doubt that his touches change all that much.
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Punters touches would go way down with tylerU as the PG IMO
 
#154
#154
BruinVol said:
Punters touches would go way down with tylerU as the PG IMO
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I doubt they go "way down". Shot attempts per 40 minutes certainly don't seem to indicate they would anyhow.

With Punter playing PG, Devon Baulkman at SG is averaging 12.4 shot attempts/40 mins.

Assuming Punter slides to SG with Ulis at PG, Ulis is currently averaging 12.9 shot attempts/40 mins. Jamal Murray is still getting 17.6 attempts/40 mins. as UK's current SG. Punter currently averages 17.4 attempts/40 mins.
 
#155
#155
cncchris33 said:
I doubt they go "way down". Shot attempts per 40 minutes certainly don't seem to indicate they would anyhow.

With Punter playing PG, Devon Baulkman at SG is averaging 12.4 shot attempts/40 mins.

Assuming Punter slides to SG with Ulis at PG, Ulis is currently averaging 12.9 shot attempts/40 mins. Jamal Murray is still getting 17.6 attempts/40 mins. as UK's current SG. Punter currently averages 17.4 attempts/40 mins.
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Many of the FTs punter is getting are on fouls where shots aren't being attempted.

Those opportunities are the main ones I am discussing
 
#156
#156
BruinVol said:
Many of the FTs punter is getting are on fouls where shots aren't being attempted.

Those opportunities are the main ones I am discussing
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He could still get a bunch of those FTs, just like Lofton did. Especially in late situations. You give the ball to the best shooter for that reason, no matter the position.
 
#157
#157
BruinVol said:
Many of the FTs punter is getting are on fouls where shots aren't being attempted.

Those opportunities are the main ones I am discussing
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Punter averages 4 more FTAs/gm than Murray, and as an 81% FT shooter, let's assume he makes 3 of 4 on average. So it might be a difference in 3 ppg at the foul line.

Still not what I would term as his touches "going way down" with Ulis running PG.

That doesn't take into account the intangible affect of Ulis making everyone around him, KP included, better.
 
#158
#158
cncchris33 said:
Punter averages 4 more FTAs/gm than Murray, and as an 81% FT shooter, let's assume he makes 3 of 4 on average. So it might be a difference in 3 ppg at the foul line.

Still not what I would term as his touches "going way down" with Ulis running PG.

That doesn't take into account the intangible affect of Ulis making everyone around him, KP included, better.
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Fair enough.

4 more FT attempts per game is a big difference IMO but good talk
 
#159
#159
BruinVol said:
Fair enough.

4 more FT attempts per game is a big difference IMO but good talk
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Even if 4 FTAs is a big difference, assuming you believe Ulis will get those opportunities ahead of KP, Ulis is a better FT shooter than Punter at 86.2%, third best in the conference. So, the effect on the team is pretty null, and perhaps a plus in a close game.
 
#160
#160
cncchris33 said:
Even if 4 FTAs is a big difference, assuming you believe Ulis will get those opportunities ahead of KP, Ulis is a better FT shooter than Punter at 86.2%, third best in the conference. So, the effect on the team is pretty null, and perhaps a plus in a close game.
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Can't go wrong with either combo

How high is the OU kid supposed to be drafted?

TylerU?
 
#161
#161
BruinVol said:
Can't go wrong with either combo

How high is the OU kid supposed to be drafted?

TylerU?
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Hield is a lottery pick because he has NBA size to match his game.

Ulis will probably be a 2nd rd pick if he leaves (he very likely may not) because despite doing a lot of things very, very well at the college level, he is only 5'-9" at best.

That has no bearing on their impact in your hypothetical situation at the college level, but there just aren't many 5-9 PGs in the NBA. He could possibly slightly improve that stock with another year in college, but he'll never have the draft pedigree of Hield based solely on his physical stature. If he were 6-4, he'd be a lottery pick.
 
#162
#162
cncchris33 said:
Hield is a lottery pick because he has NBA size to match his game.

Ulis will probably be a 2nd rd pick if he leaves (he very likely may not) because despite doing a lot of things very, very well at the college level, he is only 5'-9" at best.

That has no bearing on their impact in your hypothetical situation at the college level, but there just aren't many 5-9 PGs in the NBA. He could possibly slightly improve that stock with another year in college, but he'll never have the draft pedigree of Hield based solely on his physical stature. If he were 6-4, he'd be a lottery pick.
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Thanks

The draft status I agree doesn't mean much to me


For others though they might always select the higher talent package
 
#163
#163
cncchris33 said:
Hield is a lottery pick because he has NBA size to match his game.

Ulis will probably be a 2nd rd pick if he leaves (he very likely may not) because despite doing a lot of things very, very well at the college level, he is only 5'-9" at best.

That has no bearing on their impact in your hypothetical situation at the college level, but there just aren't many 5-9 PGs in the NBA. He could possibly slightly improve that stock with another year in college, but he'll never have the draft pedigree of Hield based solely on his physical stature. If he were 6-4, he'd be a lottery pick.
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Even if he was just 6' he'd be a lottery pick. I think Ulis could be a solid back up pg for many years. He would be well worth using a 2nd round pick.

Isaiah Thomas is 5'9 and was drafted 60th and is an Allstar. Not saying he is as good as Isaiah, he certainly isn't as good of a scorer but I think his passing and dribbling is up there. Nate Robison is also 5'9 and has a long career as a journeyman, but Ulis doesn't have his hops.
 
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#164
#164
Stoked said:
Even if he was just 6' he'd be a lottery pick. I think Ulis could be a solid back up pg for many years. He would be well worth using a 2nd round pick on him.
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I just used 6-4 because that is how tall Hield is, and the comparison was between the two.

And I agree, Ulis could have a nice NBA career. His size will just keep him out of the 1st rd. I'm a big fan of his game minus the UK affiliation.
 
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#165
#165
Just to revisit the Ulis-Hield discussion. Tonight was a perfect example of how much of an effect a good, true PG can have on a game. Ulis missed 12 shots and you hardly even noticed because he affects the game in so many other areas. Still finished with 11 points (albeit on 20% shooting), but had 9 assts (many to Willis and Murray for open 3s), 4 rebs, only 2 TOs, and he frustrated the heck out of Punter defensively.

Not looking to fire up the discussion again necessarily, but I just wanted to point out this particular game as supportive reasoning for my opinion.
 
#166
#166
cncchris33 said:
Just to revisit the Ulis-Hield discussion. Tonight was a perfect example of how much of an effect a good, true PG can have on a game. Ulis missed 12 shots and you hardly even noticed because he affects the game in so many other areas. Still finished with 11 points (albeit on 20% shooting), but had 9 assts (many to Willis and Murray for open 3s), 4 rebs, only 2 TOs, and he frustrated the heck out of Punter defensively.

Not looking to fire up the discussion again necessarily, but I just wanted to point out this particular game as supportive reasoning for my opinion.
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And "my side" would say tylerU only had that kind of impact Because primarily of Murray


To be fair I think both sides of this talk have plenty of good footing to stand on
 
#167
#167
BruinVol said:
And "my side" would say tylerU only had that kind of impact Because primarily of Murray


To be fair I think both sides of this talk have plenty of good footing to stand on
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Well, sure. He got the ball to Murray and Willis, and they did their job. Assists don't come if the man on the other end doesn't finish. It's like a QB in football. You read the defense, find the open receiver, pass the ball, then that receiver has to do his job. Same in basketball for a PG.

Imagine how much easier KP would have found shots receiving passes from Ulis tonight (like Murray), instead of having to facilitate the offense and generate his own shot.

I just think KP has to work too hard and too much as a PG because it isn't natural for him, and his role as a scorer would be so much more effective and streamlined if he had someone to facilitate the ball to him rather than having to do it all himself.

Good discussion anyhow.
 
#168
#168
I think Punter likely has more than 17pts, but almost certainly shoots better than 4-14fg 1-7 from 3 if he has a PG out there.
 
#171
#171
BruinVol said:
That poor % had a heck a lot to do with injury. He missed a number of open 3s due to the ankle IMO
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I disagree. In the first half a lot of his shots were rushed because the defense was closing in on him, or it was just a bad shot. He didn't have a lot of good looks last night. Ulis did a good job defending Punter.
 
#173
#173
iKrager said:
I disagree. In the first half a lot of his shots were rushed because the defense was closing in on him, or it was just a bad shot. He didn't have a lot of good looks last night. Ulis did a good job defending Punter.
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First half I agree

2nd half he missed some very open looks he usually makes
 
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