Barnes:Player Development

#1
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BruinVol

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#1
I for one have been very complimentary of the work Barnes has done with the players on an individual basis but after looking closer at that area I am not sure that has been the case.

I thought it would be interesting to look at all the players individually and discuss if they have indeed developed.


The good:
Punter: no argument here the kid has been the poster child for Barnes as a developer.

Mostella: the play we have seen from him has been very encouraging. Barnes clearly has done a good job with him

The Middle:
Baulkman: he has shown flashes and his numbers are better but nothing more than the normal progression of a kid being older.

Phillips: we havnt seen enough to judge IMO.

Schoefield: he has shown huge flashes and perhaps deserves to be in the good column but for now I think he needs to show alittle more for that


Reese: he's pretty much the same player.
If anything a little worse. He made some huge shots a year ago.

The bad:
Moore: was playing out of his mind at the end of last year and first of this year. He has clearly went backwards. I think the freedom and style of play has hurt him

Hubbs: averaged 12 the last 6 games of last year and 16 at the start of this year. Now he has clearly went backwards.

Alexander: we needed him to be contributing and he can't even get on the court more than a few minutes a game. No development at all for this one.

Kasongo: no words. Zero effort on his part. Last nights 1 minute in the first half looked exactly like that practice video I got flamed for discussing in the preseason. Unreal poor effort



Looking at that list I am not sure it's accurate for us to keep saying Barnes is doing a good job of developing these guys
 
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#2
#2
UT Basketball has gotten what it deserves, mediocrity. I am hopeful that CRB is more than someone to keep the ship from sinking or put on probation
 
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#3
#3
Not sure what anyone was expecting with the quality of the roster right now. Program probably will progress about like South Carolina. 2-3 years to build depth and experience then bam pretty good...he obviously a good coach just like the guy at SC
 
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#4
#4
Dave Hart made the safe hire, not the smart hire. He knew that perhaps no one he might offer the job to would bring less probability of "baggage" (the type the ncaa loves to scrutinize) than Rick Barnes. Dave was more interested in saving face, after the debacle the Donnie Tyndall hire turned into, than in resurrecting the basketball program from the ashes of mediocrity. He was hoping that Barnes would somehow regain the mojo he once had at Texas. Since Rick hasn't had much to work with at UT, it's hard to tell whether that can ever happen for the Vols. If he doesn't get the Vols out of the gutter within the next few years, though, this hire is going to look every bit as bad as some folks thought it was from the git go and Dave's face is going to look like an ostrich omelet.
 
#5
#5
Reese is just not very good and Hubbs has just not lived up to the hype. Everyone else is either too young to judge ATP point or has imporoved. (Do agree about A. Moore though, need more production)
 
#8
#8
Judging from last night they played a superior team in height and talent. Results were what they are. Not going to win many games with a front line of 6'5" guys these days. It's going to take at least two years with a much better recruiting class in 2017 to compete. On another note anyone watching what Shaka is doing in TX and surprised?
 
#9
#9
This isn't about talent it's about developing or Improving what we do have.

2 players have clearly gotten better and others have clearly gotten worse. A good developer of talent should see more individuals than 2 make strides it seems to me
 
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#10
#10
Even the best coaches have to have talent to win. Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, hell
even Calipari. It's not that Barnes can't coach, he just doesn't have the talent to win in the SEC. He's just going to have to recruit better players.
 
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#11
#11
I completely disagree with you OP. Third system in three years. CRB has over achieved IMO. This isn't like when Pearl took over and inherited a Lofton or JaJuan but more like a very mediocre roster that isn't very smart. I think to judge CRB it needs to middle of the way next season not this year. Some guys flourish in systems some guys don't. It's amazing what a blowout to a superior team (that has three guys shooting lights out and two 7footers in the front court) to the pyschy of volnation. We don't shoot the ball well and are very small in the frontcourt. Can't rely on punter to make all the baskets. As far as Hubbs goes he's been a bust since he walked on to campus IMO. 5 star guy playing with very little effort. Armani needs to be the leader he is but I wouldn't put all his woes on CRB. Just my opinion
 
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#12
#12
Moore and Hubbs should not be in the "bad" category. You could tell they had improved but they both have had injuries set them back.

Punter's development should tell you all that you need to know about Barnes ability to develop players.

I still don't understand how some of our fans think that Barnes should have this team headed towards the tournament. It takes time to rebuild. Frank Martin at USC(e), Pearl at Auburn where he is 9-8 in his 2nd year there. And those two are proven coaches that have won big at their other schools.

Compare Barnes vs the other 1st year hires in the SEC.

Ben Howland 7-10: who many wanted, including myself. Is 7-10 and 0-5 in the SEC. With bad losses to Southern and UMKC.

Avery Johnson 10-7: He hasn't had any bad losses, and he has beaten 2 ranked teams, but he's still 10-7 and will likely miss the tournament. With all the said he was left with a better roster than Barnes.

Michael White 12-6: He's doing pretty well but got embarrassed by CRB. He was left with the best roster to work with out of the 4. With 2 nice pg's. No bad losses, but no good wins either.

Rick Barnes 9-9: Hasn't lost to any teams he shouldn't have but also hasn't really won any games that he shouldn't have either.
 
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#13
#13
Moore was heading the wrong direction well before his injury

Hubbs could very easily be his injury but Barnes pointed out to us it wasn't when he called him out on effort.

Last 6 games of last year 12 a game with great effort

First of this year hubbs 16 a game with great effort

He has clearly stepped back since
 
#14
#14
"The good:
Punter: no argument here the kid has been the poster child for Barnes as a developer.
-agreed
Mostella: the play we have seen from him has been very encouraging. Barnes clearly has done a good job with him
-agreed. The mental aspect is the largest improvement.
The Middle:
Baulkman: he has shown flashes and his numbers are better but nothing more than the normal progression of a kid being older.
-he is what he is. he has to be a shooter as that is his best role on this team. his defense is improved.
Phillips: we havnt seen enough to judge IMO.
-It is amazing how good a kid can look in HS and how crazy a kid can look in college. I think he can get to good level but the game has to slow down quite a bit more for him.
Schoefield: he has shown huge flashes and perhaps deserves to be in the good column but for now I think he needs to show alittle more for that
-CRB probably has done a better job with him than Punter. When we have a real center he will be fantastic 4Man.

Reese: he's pretty much the same player.
If anything a little worse. He made some huge shots a year ago.
-he is the same player becuase he wants to be the same player. he is at his ceiling.
The bad:
Moore: was playing out of his mind at the end of last year and first of this year. He has clearly went backwards. I think the freedom and style of play has hurt him
-Tweeners don't have prolonged high levels of success. Tough games are bound to happen for a player like Armani. He hit a couple threes early on and i though he had added a dimension but definitely not case.
Hubbs: averaged 12 the last 6 games of last year and 16 at the start of this year. Now he has clearly went backwards.
-Like CRB said. He is too nice. If he had the edge and instict of Punter he would have left early for the draft last year. The injury has played a role and I think CRB calling him out back fired. If you call out Schofield or Armani, they have a double - double the next two games to prove a point. Hubbs is not wired like that...

Alexander: we needed him to be contributing and he can't even get on the court more than a few minutes a game. No development at all for this one.
-I think he is developing but we don't have the luxury of letting him develop in games. that would help him along. People that see practices acknowledge that his is going to be very good for us.
Kasongo: no words. Zero effort on his part. Last nights 1 minute in the first half looked exactly like that practice video I got flamed for discussing in the preseason. Unreal poor effort"
-he won't be back next season...

CRB is a high level coach and i will stand by that until 2 years from now his recuits don't produce and we are not playing for an SEC title.
 
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#15
#15
Good post coach

Enjoyed reading it

To your point in AS. He did show a Few flashes last night that looked like a 4. Before last night I thought he was heading toward being a 3
 
#16
#16
Otis07 said:
UT Basketball has gotten what it deserves, mediocrity. I am hopeful that CRB is more than someone to keep the ship from sinking or put on probation
Click to expand...

Probation for what ? Risk that for the caliber of players currently on the roster. :crazy:
 
#18
#18
Special Ed said:
Dave Hart made the safe hire, not the smart hire. He knew that perhaps no one he might offer the job to would bring less probability of "baggage" (the type the ncaa loves to scrutinize) than Rick Barnes. Dave was more interested in saving face, after the debacle the Donnie Tyndall hire turned into, than in resurrecting the basketball program from the ashes of mediocrity. He was hoping that Barnes would somehow regain the mojo he once had at Texas. Since Rick hasn't had much to work with at UT, it's hard to tell whether that can ever happen for the Vols. If he doesn't get the Vols out of the gutter within the next few years, though, this hire is going to look every bit as bad as some folks thought it was from the git go and Dave's face is going to look like an ostrich omelet.
Click to expand...

Lessee. In a very short span: the Pearl Petition, Cuonzo's duckout, Mike White's turndown, Tyndall's abortion... "Safe" hire? After what UT BB has endured since the end of Pearl, it still looks like a fortunate hire imo.
 
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#20
#20
I honestly don't think it would matter who was coach this year, we'd still have drive-bys coming around talking about how much they miss Pearl and BBB.

With Barnes it's because he's old, washed-up, and past his prime (which may all be true). Had Tyndall not crapped the bed if he wasn't winning this year, it would be that he's not the guy. Had we gone with a guy like Will Wade and he struggled, while he may have gotten a bit more leeway than Barnes due to youth, many would complain we went with a "no name".
 
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#21
#21
VolsSportsFan said:
I honestly don't think it would matter who was coach this year, we'd still have drive-bys coming around talking about how much they miss Pearl and BBB.

With Barnes it's because he's old, washed-up, and past his prime (which may all be true). Had Tyndall not crapped the bed if he wasn't winning this year, it would be that he's not the guy. Had we gone with a guy like Will Wade and he struggled, while he may have gotten a bit more leeway than Barnes due to youth, many would complain we went with a "no name".
Click to expand...

Speaking of Will Wade, he's not doing too shaby in his first season with VCU. He's 14-5 and 9-0 in the A-10 and has them in 1st place. Would love to see us get him if CRB retires in a few years.
 
#22
#22
Stoked said:
Speaking of Will Wade, he's not doing too shaby in his first season with VCU. He's 14-5 and 9-0 in the A-10 and has them in 1st place. Would love to see us get him if CRB retires in a few years.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. I hope Hart is too.
 
#23
#23
VolsSportsFan said:
I honestly don't think it would matter who was coach this year, we'd still have drive-bys coming around talking about how much they miss Pearl and BBB.

With Barnes it's because he's old, washed-up, and past his prime (which may all be true). Had Tyndall not crapped the bed if he wasn't winning this year, it would be that he's not the guy. Had we gone with a guy like Will Wade and he struggled, while he may have gotten a bit more leeway than Barnes due to youth, many would complain we went with a "no name".
Click to expand...

Should've went with Wade. Give him a few years since he is a young guy and not really a big name.

Barnes appears to be killing time until retirement. You want better results from a coach with his reputation. Uninspired is what I'd call Barnes and this Vols team. And his recruiting is disappointing for the most part.
 
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#25
#25
Before opening this thread I thought it was going to be that guy from the offseason that said that Durant was a nobody and Barnes turned him into a star
 
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