Baffled about Lady Vols

[creekdipper]

There's a two word fix to this problem. Kara Lawson. The one who should've been hired to begin with. She has duke playing better ball then any Kellie team has yet. I love Kellie but she just can't coach with the big dogs. Hell I even like looking at her on the sidelines as she is pretty but pretty don't win games.

Well, this has been said a lot, but maybe you missed all those times. We had just fired a coach who had no coaching experience other than the interim year as the de facto coach with Pat the coach in name. That experiment started well but had a terrible end.

Thus it made little sense, especially given the unpleasant recent past, to hand the reins to someone with absolutely zero head coaching experience running a major college program. That would have happened back when Pat was hired and washed the uniforms and drove the team to games...when very few took women's basketball seriously. But not in 2019. Coaching the 3 on 3 Olympics team and spending a year helping the Celtics was nice, but doesn't demonstrate that you can meet all the demands of a head college coach.

And I still wonder the reaction fans would have if Kara had been hired and then canceled the season after playing a handful of games as she did at Duke.

 

[creekdipper]

Why are you debating with A drive by poster over WBB?

Because sharing is caring. ❤

 

[Benionsopinion]

Well,here we are after fifty plus posts and only one,Jax Vol, has deigned to answer the posed questions. It quickly became another forum to lament the coaching staff. Does this mean that everyone echoes Jax’s answers? Surely there are more thoughts out there. Some of his excuses don’t hold water for me. Tired team? All teams are tired at this point. Post players waving for the ball? My question had no mention of posts. It was why our best three point shooters are not passed the ball when they are wide open on the wing. Justine not up to par on defense the reason she didn‘t play? Someone surely did not watch Jasmine Powell’s defense. Jordan H not playing as usual? Still think she is hurt somewhat. Any other thoughts?

 

[Voltopia]

Well,here we are after fifty plus posts and only one,Jax Vol, has deigned to answer the posed questions. It quickly became another forum to lament the coaching staff. Does this mean that everyone echoes Jax’s answers? Surely there are more thoughts out there.

Heh, oh, sure, there are more thoughts.

Here's one - well, here's one of mine. When the forum's already a raging inferno of anger and argument, and then someone spins up a new thread that promptly ignites, and someone says "hey Voltopia, you got any more gasoline you wanna pour on this?" I'm gonna say "Nah my dude, I'm good."

 

[orangemadam]

Void in the leadership. Not enough vocal leaders in the clubhouse and the chemistry is just not good.

There are some selfish players and no one is bothering to remedy the situation.

 

[feathersax]

In last night’s closing minutes of regulation,why was an
erratic point guard with no size taking two of their last three shot attempts including one where she attacked taller players on a drive into the lane?
Where was the defense against players not as touted?
Where was JH? Was she injured? I know she had foul trouble, but she never seemed in the game to me.
Where was Justine? Maybe she could have helped. Certainly as much or more than some.
Where were the passes to wide open Lady Vols waving for the ball on the wing. I am beginning to think that is done purposely, prime example being when Sara was standing wide open yet JW threw the ball to triple teamed Rickea thus resulting in a turnover. Don’t know what’s up but this has become prevalent.
There were more of the same bugaboos—- not guarding three point shooters,not stopping drives into the lane,not rebounding as well. Generally a lackluster performance.
All this despite stellar play from Rickea and Jill, who is going to be a star in the near future.
Despite all these things,I am most concerned about Horston who I think is playing through pain.
Bottom line here is that I’m sure the coaches see these things and will correct them.

Hope you're right. Really like KJH & hope for success, but turnovers, poor shot selection, awful guard play, etc. are truly worrisome.

 

[MrBiggles]

In last night’s closing minutes of regulation,why was an
erratic point guard with no size taking two of their last three shot attempts including one where she attacked taller players on a drive into the lane?
Where was the defense against players not as touted?
Where was JH? Was she injured? I know she had foul trouble, but she never seemed in the game to me.
Where was Justine? Maybe she could have helped. Certainly as much or more than some.
Where were the passes to wide open Lady Vols waving for the ball on the wing. I am beginning to think that is done purposely, prime example being when Sara was standing wide open yet JW threw the ball to triple teamed Rickea thus resulting in a turnover. Don’t know what’s up but this has become prevalent.
There were more of the same bugaboos—- not guarding three point shooters,not stopping drives into the lane,not rebounding as well. Generally a lackluster performance.
All this despite stellar play from Rickea and Jill, who is going to be a star in the near future.
Despite all these things,I am most concerned about Horston who I think is playing through pain.
Bottom line here is that I’m sure the coaches see these things and will correct them.

I was asking that last night about Pissott. I understand and it's granted she probably wasn't supposed to be in the rotation this year, but once we lost both Marta and Tamari, then she should have been in the rotation learning about the college game and offense. She played point guard in high school and I would have thought that at 6'4 she could pass/shoot over a 5'9 guard. I think she will be a cornerstone of the team for the next few years, but we could have used this year to figure out where she fits in the team and get her some confidence. Yes the team are possibly tired and the grind of the season without both Marta and Tamari has hurt, but good teams get game fit throughout the season and learn to deal with it. Our problem is that Darby is a liability on D side and the other team's guards are driving past her to the bucket or when she is off coverage shooting 3s. The other 2 guards are a liability on the offense with turnovers. Most games we seem to have 20+ turnovers. Against good teams, you are not going to win with that turnover count.

 

[Volfan2012]

I was asking that last night about Pissott. I understand and it's granted she probably wasn't supposed to be in the rotation this year, but once we lost both Marta and Tamari, then she should have been in the rotation learning about the college game and offense. She played point guard in high school and I would have thought that at 6'4 she could pass/shoot over a 5'9 guard. I think she will be a cornerstone of the team for the next few years, but we could have used this year to figure out where she fits in the team and get her some confidence. Yes the team are possibly tired and the grind of the season without both Marta and Tamari has hurt, but good teams get game fit throughout the season and learn to deal with it. Our problem is that Darby is a liability on D side and the other team's guards are driving past her to the bucket or when she is off coverage shooting 3s. The other 2 guards are a liability on the offense with turnovers. Most games we seem to have 20+ turnovers. Against good teams, you are not going to win with that turnover count.

I don't see where we couldn't use Justine for some of Darby's minutes. I can't accept defense as the reason we don't use her.

 

[glv98]

Well,here we are after fifty plus posts and only one,Jax Vol, has deigned to answer the posed questions

When the forum's already a raging inferno of anger and argument, and then someone spins up a new thread that promptly ignites, and someone says "hey Voltopia, you got any more gasoline you wanna pour on this?" I'm gonna say "Nah my dude, I'm good."

Thank you! Here I go into dreaded board on board posting, but do ya'll remember way back when common courtesy on these old timey forums was you look around a little and get a sense of the board before posting, esp starting a new thread? Would you walk up on a conversation and burst in with your thoughts before listening a little? Probably so. Good ole bad manners tho.

I don't see where we couldn't use Justine for some of Darby's minutes. I can't accept defense as the reason we don't use her.

It's offense too. Justine is simply lost out there, plus physically out of place Doesn't have Tess's court awareness or moxey. Justine is fighting just to keep her balance physically and figure out mentally what's going on out there. Extremely uncomfortable.

Ya'll can argue till the cows come home whether this would not be the case if she had played more earlier. But right now, Justine absolutely doesn't help us more than Tess.

That said, if Justine will totally dedicate to physical development and alot of film study of SEC game situations this summer, she'll be fine.

 

[aaronvol]

No, it doesn't make any sense at all. You have said several times now that you consider watching women's basketball to be a grind, even when tbey are "well-coached."

What you haven't even attempted to explain is why you find women's basketball to be so hard to watch. Do you just not like basketball at all? How do you recognize a "well-coached" team vs. the alternative? What are the distinguishing marks of the former, and how does this differ from a well-coached men's team?

If I could understand your aversion to women's basketball, maybe then I could understand. But it sounds as though you just don't like the sport (which causes one to wonder how many of Summitt's games you watched). What were the "well-coached" aspect of Summitt's teams in the games you could bring yourself to watch?

I don't care much for soccer or golf, either, but that applies to both men's and women's divisions.

This isn't really difficult. Women's sports are not as fun to watch, exciting to watch, or as good of a product as men's sports. This shouldn't be surprising to you. This goes back to my original point. Very few folks watch the WNBA vs. the NBA, or the USWNT vs. USMNT, or softball vs. baseball. If you are wanting me to say something like, "Men are more athletic and are better at sports which means more people enjoy it...etc." then, "Yes, it's more difficult to watch women's sports because of the athletic differences between men and women." Is that what you're trying to get me to say? But...this has literally nothing to do with my original statement. This team is not well coached. Too many turnovers. Poor shot selection. Not finishing around the rim. Not rotating on defense (1st quarter of Uconn especially.) So...I can have an opinion regarding poor coaching while not watching a ton of games. I went to all of my daughter's soccer games last year...they weren't well coached either. This year they are.

 

[LVsinceJV]

This isn't really difficult. Women's sports are not as fun to watch, exciting to watch, or as good of a product as men's sports. This shouldn't be surprising to you. This goes back to my original point. Very few folks watch the WNBA vs. the NBA, or the USWNT vs. USMNT, or softball vs. baseball. If you are wanting me to say something like, "Men are more athletic and are better at sports which means more people enjoy it...etc." then, "Yes, it's more difficult to watch women's sports because of the athletic differences between men and women." Is that what you're trying to get me to say? But...this has literally nothing to do with my original statement. This team is not well coached. Too many turnovers. Poor shot selection. Not finishing around the rim. Not rotating on defense (1st quarter of Uconn especially.) So...I can have an opinion regarding poor coaching while not watching a ton of games. I went to all of my daughter's soccer games last year...they weren't well coached either. This year they are.

One thing to critique the coach, but it's a douche move to come to the Lady Vols forum going on and on about how you don't like women's sports. Keep it relevant or keep it moving.

 

[Rons1989]

One thing that really sticks out like a sore thumb is that every guard we have played with a pulse is going off on us we are not very atheltic there....im not a zone defense type of person but i do believe this particular team would be a great zone team to utilize there length and stop penetration we are getting killed when we did go to zone the other night it was really effective...

 

[Jax_Vol]

Thank you! Here I go into dreaded board on board posting, but do ya'll remember way back when common courtesy on these old timey forums was you look around a little and get a sense of the board before posting, esp starting a new thread? Would you walk up on a conversation and burst in with your thoughts before listening a little? Probably so. Good ole bad manners tho.

It's offense too. Justine is simply lost out there, plus physically out of place Doesn't have Tess's court awareness or moxey. Justine is fighting just to keep her balance physically and figure out mentally what's going on out there. Extremely uncomfortable.

Ya'll can argue till the cows come home whether this would not be the case if she had played more earlier. But right now, Justine absolutely doesn't help us more than Tess.

That said, if Justine will totally dedicate to physical development and alot of film study of SEC game situations this summer, she'll be fine.

Yes!! This post hits the nail squarely on the head. Justine needs a year in the weight room. Period!

The idea that she will be shooting over 5'9" guards is ridiculous. In the upper half of SEC, she will have a 6'0" or 6'1" girl up in her grill. And, she can't shoot over that much height. Even with her defensive limitations, Tess is the best option this year.

 

[savannahfan]

In last night’s closing minutes of regulation,why was an
erratic point guard with no size taking two of their last three shot attempts including one where she attacked taller players on a drive into the lane?
Where was the defense against players not as touted?
Where was JH? Was she injured? I know she had foul trouble, but she never seemed in the game to me.
Where was Justine? Maybe she could have helped. Certainly as much or more than some.
Where were the passes to wide open Lady Vols waving for the ball on the wing. I am beginning to think that is done purposely, prime example being when Sara was standing wide open yet JW threw the ball to triple teamed Rickea thus resulting in a turnover. Don’t know what’s up but this has become prevalent.
There were more of the same bugaboos—- not guarding three point shooters,not stopping drives into the lane,not rebounding as well. Generally a lackluster performance.
All this despite stellar play from Rickea and Jill, who is going to be a star in the near future.
Despite all these things,I am most concerned about Horston who I think is playing through pain.
Bottom line here is that I’m sure the coaches see these things and will correct them.

I am sure there are "people" seeing things. As for the staff, they better start seeing the "writing on the wall" and trying to get this bunch of ladies playing intelligent basketball even with the handicap of being not very quick and not skilled or playing with good team work. Too much one on one dribbling by the undersized poorly skilled point guard for this team to be much of a success.

 

[Jax_Vol]

One thing that really sticks out like a sore thumb is that every guard we have played with a pulse is going off on us we are not very atheltic there....im not a zone defense type of person but i do believe this particular team would be a great zone team to utilize there length and stop penetration we are getting killed when we did go to zone the other night it was really effective...

I'm not a zone person either. But, maybe they will work on that this week and try during Vandy game.

Playing zone hurts your rebounding. If I'm playing a 2-3 zone, would prefer to have someone like Key anchoring the middle.

But, the blow-bys are hurting us.......so, might be worth mixing some zone into rotation.

 

[#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE]

Years ago I sent my team out on conditioning run, and a young man who was ahead of everyone got a taste of my inner Pat Summitt. He could not understand why I was so irrate and frustrated with him, saying, but coach I was in front of everyone. I told him just because your ahead of your teammates dosen't mean your running to be the very best in the world, those who would be a champion must operate at a different level. When you up your commitment level, the level your consistency will go up. Showing up and playing is not enough, you must show out and dominate. This team and program, albeit good, lacks a degree of skills mastery and mental toughness that creates Champions. This only comes through the sufferings of extremely hard practices and training sessions, games lost when it could and should have been won, athletes internally declaring they have had enough of losing and make the individual changes to become better, and coaches making the necessary changes to level up as well. I believe this team, this coaching staff can still right the ship this season. GO LADY VOLS

 

[savannahfan]

Nothing that more talent wouldn't cure.

And how do you propose this happens. This staff has had plenty of time to recruit better talent. Hasn't happened. Not wanting to point out that there seem to be quiet a few blonds on the squad. Blonds? And our coach?? Birds of a feather - - But I have...

 

[aaronvol]

One thing to critique the coach, but it's a douche move to come to the Lady Vols forum going on and on about how you don't like women's sports. Keep it relevant or keep it moving.

You haven't listened to a single thing I have said. I tried to keep it relevant. I consistently brought it back to my original point. It was everyone else who was trying to find some juicy nugget to get upset about. Read all of my posts. I watch some of the games. I don't watch a lot of women's sports because I find it difficult to watch. But, what I have seen (I've watched three games this year) the coaching is below an acceptable level. I tried to keep it focused, it was super sensitive posters who tried to make it about something different than I was. Sheez folks...

 

[Coach Jumper]

In last night’s closing minutes of regulation,why was an....

1 erratic point guard with no size taking two of their last three shot attempts including one where she attacked taller players on a drive into the lane?
1: teams take on the personality of their coach,,,, and Kellie has made erratic in-game subbing and decisions and questionable non-use of tactics and coaching weapons. Her players will mirror these tendencies

2 Where was the defense against players not as touted?
2: This team has shown defensive shortcomings all year: e.g.. not defending all the way to the basket on drives-stopping one step short and giving the driver the ability to finish,,, inability to guard the high-screened/3 pt shot,,,Posts trying to match against the opponent's post-ups with the upper body instead of using "a knee-in-the-back of the knee technique",,,Letting known shooters have career nights...
I have been teaching one-on-one defense all my coaching life (I can be there tomorrow)

3 Where was JH? Was she injured? I know she had foul trouble, but she never seemed in the game to me.
3: I cannot weigh in on this one as I do not speak with Jordan,,,but in looking at her I would surmise that she is playing with pain but not injury. And I do not see the confidence in her face I saw earlier in the year. This troubles me.

4 Where was Justine? Maybe she could have helped. Certainly as much or more than some.
4: There is no panacea for this team. But 42 years of assessing this game , I contend that had Justine been used as much as Tess this year, she would be further along...I base this on my own input to Justine before she got here,,,I suggested to her to work on extending her offensive game,,to get lower and wider on defensive posture,, to quit fearing contact and entry into the paint...And she improved on every single suggestion....I compare the growth I have personally witnessed versus the growth of Darby and I conclude she is a better athlete, taller (and knows how to use her span in defending quicker and shorter foes) and she has equal range and accuracy.

I equally assess Jillian as the better starter decision. Karoline is a very good andvery skilled post player, but in this SEC league she is severely under-sized, and in my experience "you can't teach height but you can coach it"

5 Where were the passes to wide open Lady Vols waving for the ball on the wing. I am beginning to think that is done purposely, prime example being when Sara was standing wide open yet JW threw the ball to triple teamed Rickea thus resulting in a turnover. Don’t know what’s up but this has become prevalent.
5: the pass to Rickea was the right one but it was poorly executed. It was picked off by Hayes (5'6") against RJ 6'2"....A little bit of arc and it would have been a definite two, but the pass was flat and easily stolen

Re Jillian,,,IMO she has worked herself into the starting role and to not reward her may cost this team that inner-drive it took for her to get to this point...."Employees, who don't get raises, begin to start giving you what you are paying for instead of what they are worth,,if not compensated

Finally,
I post as a coach, not a fan.

I have seen advances in the outer staff's responsibilities and acknowledge that there has been growth in individual skills in the posts and forwards,,but I have not seen equal growth in the ball-handlers or in-game decisions.
For me to continue to support the HC, she too has to grow!

 

[Coach Jumper]

One thing that really sticks out like a sore thumb is that every guard we have played with a pulse is going off on us we are not very atheltic there....im not a zone defense type of person but i do believe this particular team would be a great zone team to utilize there length and stop penetration we are getting killed when we did go to zone the other night it was really effective...

I detest zone,,, but I will use it if I have to and sometimes YOU HAVE TO!

 

[madtownvol]

You need to read your own post. I read that same article. Remember, in 2019 there was a Women's World Cup. They of course would bring in more revenue in that year, especially considering that the men missed the 2018. So...in 2017, 2018, and 2019 the men made hardly anything because they failed in qualifications leading up to the cup. However, if you look at this year the men's team made a more than enough to carry the $ for years to come over the women. Which is why the suit worked pre World Cup but wouldn't work now. Might I remind you the women's team lost to the Dallas under 15 boys team.

What is so complicated about this?

During the three years following the 2015 Women’s World Cup, the women’s team brought in slightly more revenue from games than the men’s team did. While marketing and sponsorships are sold as a bundle, there are anecdotal signs that the women’s brand is surging in popularity.
When the Wall Street Journal audited the federation’s financial reports, it found that the U.S. women’s soccer games earned more than the men’s games, in total, during three years after the women’s team won the World Cup in 2015.
Specifically, from 2016-18, the women’s team brought in $50.8 million in revenue, while the men’s team brought in $49.9 million. That’s a difference of less than 2% in the women’s favor.

They also had better attendance at their games than the mean in 2019

USWNT average attendance 8% greater than USMNT in 2019

You made a blanket statement that the women's team generate less revenue than the men;s team. That has been proven factually wrong and upheld in court. Whether or not the men's team has in recent years, altered the landscape does not change the historical facts.

But of course your "reminder" is indicative of your agenda. Right wingers and anti-feminist jumped all over that result, again overlooking one interesting fact:

It's imperative to state that this 'game' between the USWNT and Dallas boys was not really a game at all. It was described as a 'scrimmage' between the two squads, an informal practice.
And, with an actual game against Russia to follow, none of the female players would in their right mind have played like it was a real contest.

You don't have to look to hard to find this fact on big ole internet.

You have stated that you consider women's sport inherently inferior and treat that statement, not as an opinion but an objective state of the world.

You do you man but WTF are you posting on a board devoted to a women's sports. Is there not a board for a "real" sport like pro men's bowling you can hang out at?

 

[Special Ed]

Kellie's no Josh Heupel.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Kellie's no Josh Heupel.

thank God,,,he'd look terrible in some of her outfits

 

[glv98]

I'd be less baffled about the whole picture if I knew the LVs NIL situation. Is that super secret info that we can't see? Haven't some schools announced a flat offer for each recruit? Do we have such a thing?

All we hear is just donate to the BoostHer Club, but before I do I want to know how it all works and where the LVs stand in NIL among the major players.

It's all about recruiting, which apparently is all about NIL

 

[glv98]

thank God,,,he'd look terrible in some of her outfits

Speaking of outfits, I really hated those sleeveless hoodie things the coaches wore the other night. I kinda hated everything at that point though. Also, love the blue unis but that black rolled down waist band is not the most complimentary.