'17 AU WDE Big Kat Bryant (UCF)

[de1conley]

Too much like the “every body does it” defense. It does show a lack of character if you lower yourself to match other low character guys.

Do you think Rick Barnes is following that lead of others in BB? I don’t. We are not talking BBQ here if the McDonalds stories are close.

Pushing the envelope is one thing, putting green stuff in one is another.

Lol man now don’t even talk about basketball recruiting that world is 10x worse than football. Anyone getting McDonalds AA players is definitely playing recruiting wars and I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Roustabout]

Yeah, paying someone to "retire" is pathetic. Doubtful he needs the money. I guess he wouldn't go quietly.

Especially when he seems to have essentially been the equivalent of Homer Simpson at the nuclear plant. The Kevin Steele thing is a head scratcher. How do you hire someone during a hiring freeze and pay them a guaranteed contract, without even having a position to hire them to?? If we had any actually investigative journalists around here, this would be a field day.

Think too how White was specific in addressing “leaks.” We assume this is about coaching search leaks, but it was internal leaks that exposed the cheating. This means that someone bypassed the chain of command. If players were being paid by coaches under the direction of Pruitt, then Fulmer would be the chain of command to deal with this. It appears that he was bypassed.

I cannot believe that no one in the media has challenged White on “leaks” when it was leaks that got him the job. Is he saying we need to cheat better?

Regardless, I requested the university remove me from all mail, email, alumni groups, etc.

 

[Roustabout]

Lol man now don’t even talk about basketball recruiting that world is 10x worse than football. Anyone getting McDonalds AA players is definitely playing recruiting wars and I’ll leave it at that.

But to who? The person at the center of UTs bball recruiting success is Bobby Maze, not Rick Barnes. If what you say is true then your saying B-Maze isis getting $$ funneled into his AAU team either directly or indirectly from UT. Unfortunately, that seems to translate into the court as well.

I will say this, it is more telling who UT has missed out on than who they’ve gotten among top rated players. Our 5 stars do seem to have a similar quality about them.

 

[Roustabout]

A book with its chapters. How is your fingers doing.[/QUOTE]
Go away, the adults are speaking.

 

[davethevol]

But to who? The person at the center of UTs bball recruiting success is Bobby Maze, not Rick Barnes. If what you say is true then your saying B-Maze isis getting $$ funneled into his AAU team either directly or indirectly from UT. Unfortunately, that seems to translate into the court as well.

I will say this, it is more telling who UT has missed out on than who they’ve gotten among top rated players. Our 5 stars do seem to have a similar quality about them.

It’s not always the coaches. Lots of times it’s the boosters and the coaches simply let certain boosters hang out or introduce them to players, and that way coaches can claim they didn’t know. But the coaches do have a pretty good idea. College sports are dirty.

 

[de1conley]

So... stealing from the office is something "everyone" does... and if you get caught embezzling then you can still be a good role model and person, right? This is nothing like going 5 miles over the speed limit or even helping momma get a better job or giving a kid a shirt against the rules. Those things need to be stopped or regulated too... but Pruitt was WAY beyond that.

I think the NCAA should tighten up on everyone and specifically ENCOURAGE programs to self-police/correct. Covering up should earn harsher punishment than the violation. There are literally MILLIONS of current and former college students that had to live hand to mouth and do jobs they didn't want to do in hopes of a benefit later from an education. They cover the economic spectrum meaning many were every bit as poor/needy as these players. My sons joined the National Guard. Some work two or three jobs. I earned a ROTC scholarship and committed myself to 8 years of service to supplement my loans....which I paid off in full. I didn't get extra spending cash... much less the perks these guys get.


When I graduated, I didn't have long lines of boosters and donors ready to give me a job above the norm in pay and status like many of these players do often well in excess of their academic resume. If you summed their total benefits WITHIN the rules... these kids are getting $50K or more per year. Vets on the GI bill aren't getting that.

These guys are NOT getting cheated. We ALL deal with delayed gratification... and that is NOT "unfair" to anyone. Their "payday" isn't in their 4-5 years as a college athlete. It is in the years after college when those who make an effort see their opportunities explode over what they would have had without that scholarship and few years of "financial suffering".

Mannnnnnn what are you talking about? A regular student is not an athlete, they’re a student. The athlete unfortunately has more responsibility than the average student. Their schedule from meetings to workouts to practice to games on top of classes is a bigger responsibility. Due to these restrictions from those responsibilities they can’t attain a job. Athletes deserve anything that they can get extra. They take a chance at a high risk low percentage turn over in a sport for our entertainment that generates billions of dollars. The amount made vs the amount paid out are very disproportionate. As a student you are just a number not a commodity like an athlete. You choose your school and are not the hunted who is courted to attend multiple schools to play a game.

 

[de1conley]

It’s not always the coaches. Lots of times it’s the boosters and the coaches simply let certain boosters hang out or introduce them to players, and that way coaches can claim they didn’t know. But the coaches do have a pretty good idea. College sports are dirty.

Facts and the coaches know their jobs/ career success are on the line. Nobody takes a job to fail.

 

[de1conley]

How do you know CJH isn't?

I never said he wasn’t, he just isn’t someone kids are going to bust the door down to come play for immediately. He isn’t a known commodity to many and he’s not a recruiting guru based on track record. He got some guys he can learn from on his staff so that will help.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Lol man now don’t even talk about basketball recruiting that world is 10x worse than football. Anyone getting McDonalds AA players is definitely playing recruiting wars and I’ll leave it at that.

I know you are a big proponent of kids sticking their hands out and getting greased and wish to justify both the kids and the schools that cheat, but can you show US any evidence that any kid on UT's roster has received any illegal benefits? Selling a path to success or the league is one thing, real assets is another. Show me the money!!!!

 

[de1conley]

Treat people like sh*t and you’re gonna get what you deserve. He sucked @$$. We handled his firing in a stupid way. Both are true.

Just glad he’s gone and I hope he goes back to something more his speed like teaching PE

He’s too highly regarded in his profession to ever end up in a school teaching PE. He’s still earning a check in a higher level of football in NY LOL. His rings and accomplishments before UT speak for themselves.

 

[de1conley]

I know you are a big proponent of kids sticking their hands out and getting greased and wish to justify both the kids and the schools that cheat, but can you show US any evidence that any kid on UT's roster has received any illegal benefits? Selling a path to success or the league is one thing, real assets is another. Show me the money!!!!

You tried LOL I’d never put a real name or detail on a public forum. More than you know have my friend. As far as being an advocate you’re right I am because none of this stuff should be a one way street.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Holloway? Jamiele, who went to OU?

who
Ole number 7 is on tape telling how he and his Mom turned down legal money to go to pro baseball, to go to UT who did not offer him a nickel I just can't believe that schools will offer blackmail potential to kids, family and coaches on a routine basis. Lots of stories would slip out after eligibility was used up and all leverage was gone. We may be about to see what happens if you break the rules up close and personal, if some of the accounts are more truth than speculation.

 

[sjt18]

A book with its chapters. How is your fingers doing.[/QUOTE]
I can answer such weak arguments in my sleep... thanks for the concern.

 

[sjt18]

Mannnnnnn what are you talking about? A regular student is not an athlete, they’re a student. The athlete unfortunately has more responsibility than the average student.

More than my oldest son who paid for college by loading ordinance on a B-2 bomber? Or maybe my younger son who is a B-2 propulsion mechanic working on the flight line in weather ranging from sub-zero blizzards to 130 degree heat... often at night?

They have an OPTIONAL "responsibility" to play a game that most of them have played completely for free and in some cases having to pay for the privilege for 10 years before signing an LOI that assures them of a TRULY free education.... everything covered.

How many MILLIONS of kids that were NOT born with those physical gifts would KILL to get a great deal like that?

Their schedule from meetings to workouts to practice to games on top of classes is a bigger responsibility.

They usually take 6 hours per semester plus summer school, right? They have an army of tutors dedicated to making sure they get all the help they need, right? The support systems around them plus the direct costs of their education and expenses is well over $50,000/year. How many "students" have that kind of support to help them with their Atlas-like responsibility?

This is a REALLY good deal for them.

Due to these restrictions from those responsibilities they can’t attain a job.

I do not claim to know these rules. I said something about them being unable to work and someone else said that they could and another said they receive a cash stipend for extra expenses as part of their scholarship. Maybe you can clear that up.

Athletes deserve anything that they can get extra. They take a chance at a high risk low percentage turn over in a sport for our entertainment that generates billions of dollars. The amount made vs the amount paid out are very disproportionate. As a student you are just a number not a commodity like an athlete. You choose your school and are not the hunted who is courted to attend multiple schools to play a game.

Athletes get a benefit for free that increases their lifetime earning potential by more than 50%. It is delayed gratification and requires some effort on their part... but they get "paid". Remember many of these athletes might not be able to afford college without athletics. Many others either could not qualify or else could not get into the same level of university based on their HS academics alone.

And... I'll go back to the two undeniable truths that destroy your argument.

1. None of these athletes are forced to sign that LOI. If they cannot afford college and want to go then they can do what my sons did and join the NG or military. Most can use the discipline any way. An athletic scholarship and particularly a football scholarship is a HUGE privilege that only a small fraction of HS students can access.
   
   
2. Cheating is wrong and unjust even if you think the rules need to be changed. If you think the speed limit is wrong on a particular road... you don't get to violate it... but you can petition to have it changed. Your feeling that the rules don't treat the players right NEVER justifies dishonesty. As I put in my response to the other poster, this isn't "victimless" cheating. It hurts competing teams that don't have rich, dishonest boosters. It hurts opposing players, programs, and coaches that for whatever reason do not cheat... or cheat as effectively. It hurts those who simply have the honesty and integrity to refuse to cheat. Ultimately for any athlete who benefits from cheating another is disadvantaged.

 

[sjt18]

One thing that keeps coming to mind... I played HS sports because I wanted to. It was fun and a sacrifice I willingly made. We "entertained" a lot of people on Friday nights relative to the size of our town. I didn't have to play... I chose to play. I assumed the risks without ANY direct financial benefit. When my brother's knee was blown out in the day when they used to cut you... my parents had to pay to have it treated and operated on. To this day, he experiences problems with that knee.

These players choose to play football and get a free college education in exchange. If they really don't want to play football... then DON'T... they should do something else. There are lots of ways to succeed in life and get an education. Many of you act as if these guys have no choices. They do... many choices.

Some of you care. Some of you don't. But there is wisdom in the parable of the penny laborers that applies here.

 

[DarkAvenger]

Mannnnnnn what are you talking about? A regular student is not an athlete, they’re a student. The athlete unfortunately has more responsibility than the average student. Their schedule from meetings to workouts to practice to games on top of classes is a bigger responsibility. Due to these restrictions from those responsibilities they can’t attain a job. Athletes deserve anything that they can get extra. They take a chance at a high risk low percentage turn over in a sport for our entertainment that generates billions of dollars. The amount made vs the amount paid out are very disproportionate. As a student you are just a number not a commodity like an athlete. You choose your school and are not the hunted who is courted to attend multiple schools to play a game.

Athletes have more responsibilities yes, but students are absolutely as important. You might want to check Tennessee’s annual endowment donated by Alumni which were majority just students ... it’s over a billion dollars. That’s by far more money than what the football program brings in which falls around 96 million in 2019 pre COVID.

 

[VolsdeepVFL]

More than my oldest son who paid for college by loading ordinance on a B-2 bomber? Or maybe my younger son who is a B-2 propulsion mechanic working on the flight line in weather ranging from sub-zero blizzards to 130 degree heat... often at night?

They have an OPTIONAL "responsibility" to play a game that most of them have played completely for free and in some cases having to pay for the privilege for 10 years before signing an LOI that assures them of a TRULY free education.... everything covered.

How many MILLIONS of kids that were NOT born with those physical gifts would KILL to get a great deal like that?

They usually take 6 hours per semester plus summer school, right? They have an army of tutors dedicated to making sure they get all the help they need, right? The support systems around them plus the direct costs of their education and expenses is well over $50,000/year. How many "students" have that kind of support to help them with their Atlas-like responsibility?

This is a REALLY good deal for them.

I do not claim to know these rules. I said something about them being unable to work and someone else said that they could and another said they receive a cash stipend for extra expenses as part of their scholarship. Maybe you can clear that up.


Athletes get a benefit for free that increases their lifetime earning potential by more than 50%. It is delayed gratification and requires some effort on their part... but they get "paid". Remember many of these athletes might not be able to afford college without athletics. Many others either could not qualify or else could not get into the same level of university based on their HS academics alone.

And... I'll go back to the two undeniable truths that destroy your argument.

1. None of these athletes are forced to sign that LOI. If they cannot afford college and want to go then they can do what my sons did and join the NG or military. Most can use the discipline any way. An athletic scholarship and particularly a football scholarship is a HUGE privilege that only a small fraction of HS students can access.
   
   
2. Cheating is wrong and unjust even if you think the rules need to be changed. If you think the speed limit is wrong on a particular road... you don't get to violate it... but you can petition to have it changed. Your feeling that the rules don't treat the players right NEVER justifies dishonesty. As I put in my response to the other poster, this isn't "victimless" cheating. It hurts competing teams that don't have rich, dishonest boosters. It hurts opposing players, programs, and coaches that for whatever reason do not cheat... or cheat as effectively. It hurts those who simply have the honesty and integrity to refuse to cheat. Ultimately for any athlete who benefits from cheating another is disadvantaged.

You sound like a PR firm for union prevention....these kids generate great amounts of revenue and it's time they're paid their due

 

[sjt18]

You sound like a PR firm for union prevention....these kids generate great amounts of revenue and it's time they're paid their due

Then change the rules. I disagree completely but give it your best shot.

That is NOT a justification for violating or ignoring the rules as they are currently written... and AGREED TO by every coach, program, and player IN WRITING.

As for unions... no, I do not support institutionalized extortion. If unions were subject to the same trust and monopoly laws that other businesses must comply with (they had to compete for contracts) OR if they had to prove an economic benefit to the company... no problem.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

You tried LOL I’d never put a real name or detail on a public forum. More than you know have my friend. As far as being an advocate you’re right I am because none of this stuff should be a one way street.

View attachment 353831

Well if you want a two way street then I guess out of a sense of fair play that you support kids not earning their schollies and bennefits being removed from their deal is OK. Simply from lack of performance, not injury. And that is legal. IF IF IF some of these snippets about what Pruitt and staff did are true, I hope he pays the price for doing sol If kids stuck their hands out, them too.

 

[VolsdeepVFL]

Then change the rules. I disagree completely but give it your best shot.

That is NOT a justification for violating or ignoring the rules as they are currently written... and AGREED TO by every coach, program, and player IN WRITING.

As for unions... no, I do not support institutionalized extortion. If unions were subject to the same trust and monopoly laws that other businesses must comply with (they had to compete for contracts) OR if they had to prove an economic benefit to the company... no problem.

The reason so much money moves under the table is because of the great value these players bring, legalize it and bring it to light.

A union will never benefit the company, looking at it that way is judging a fish by it's ability to climb. It's to protect and benefit the labor, countries with the strongest unions have some of the greatest qualities of life.

 

[sjt18]

The reason so much money moves under the table is because of the great value these players bring, legalize it and bring it to light.

I disagree that they're getting a bad deal. I'm familiar with Mizzou because my son went there. All in costs of school, fees, housing, and food is around $30,000. Athletes get that for free. They also get free health care, clothing, tutors, and other direct and indirect LEGAL benefits.

A union will never benefit the company, looking at it that way is judging a fish by it's ability to climb. It's to protect and benefit the labor, countries with the strongest unions have some of the greatest qualities of life.

Well, Japanese unions have a long history of benefiting their companies and recognizing the shared benefit of a successful company. They are unique though primarily because unions would rather kill the golden goose.

Unions have very little value in the ways you describe. Competition for labor is FAR more beneficial to workers and standard of living than unions which almost universally increase costs while offering no direct or indirect benefit to the company or economy as a whole. Unions are sometimes not much more than a wealth transfer from one worker to another. In the US, there is very little difference between union and non-union compensation and safety when all costs to the employee are accounted for. The only exception are unions of government employees. Unions very likely HURT teacher compensation by aggressively protecting the status quo model.

I used to work for a subsidiary of NUCOR steel. An effort was started to unionize one of their plants. The employees "organized"... to run the union people out of their plant. They pay their people well and care about their safety. A few years ago in a particularly tough year their management didn't take their bonuses so the plant level workers could get more.

The US still has the highest standard of living in the world. Unions have been shrinking in the private sector for decades. Economic freedom and favorable taxes and regulations for business growth are MUCH better for workers.

 

[sjt18]

A union will never benefit the company, looking at it that way is judging a fish by it's ability to climb..

Oh, specific to this... yes. They CAN benefit the company. The Electrical Workers Union assures that companies get productive, well trained, safe employees that enable those companies in many cases to make more money.

Like any other business, a union should have to deliver a better product (labor) to the market.... and they can if their focus is actually on the immediate and longterm welfare of the workers. They can't if they insist on creating inefficiencies and protecting bad employees.

Another quick war story. A friend of mine worked for a greeting card plant in KS. By their union contract, only one guy could change certain light bulbs on their finishing lines. He worked 8 to 4:30. He was not required to come in or even answer the phone if a light went out. They were not permitted to send anyone home. SO... if a simple light bulb that one of the line workers could have changed themselves went out at 4:35 the 2nd and 3rd shifts went to the break room and sat all night doing nothing. By contract... they couldn't even doing cleaning.

That's NOT a formula for making your country's quality of life better... much less their standard of living... much less their economic competitiveness in a global economy.

 

[sjt18]

I’m really liking this guy!!

Hang around... I'll hack you off about something eventually... I think one of these guys is giving likes to my posts in another thread.

 

[Volbucky]

But to who? The person at the center of UTs bball recruiting success is Bobby Maze, not Rick Barnes. If what you say is true then your saying B-Maze isis getting $$ funneled into his AAU team either directly or indirectly from UT. Unfortunately, that seems to translate into the court as well.

I will say this, it is more telling who UT has missed out on than who they’ve gotten among top rated players. Our 5 stars do seem to have a similar quality about them.

This recruiting thing is getting out of control.

 

[VolsdeepVFL]

I disagree that they're getting a bad deal. I'm familiar with Mizzou because my son went there. All in costs of school, fees, housing, and food is around $30,000. Athletes get that for free. They also get free health care, clothing, tutors, and other direct and indirect LEGAL benefits.


Well, Japanese unions have a long history of benefiting their companies and recognizing the shared benefit of a successful company. They are unique though primarily because unions would rather kill the golden goose.

Unions have very little value in the ways you describe. Competition for labor is FAR more beneficial to workers and standard of living than unions which almost universally increase costs while offering no direct or indirect benefit to the company or economy as a whole. Unions are sometimes not much more than a wealth transfer from one worker to another. In the US, there is very little difference between union and non-union compensation and safety when all costs to the employee are accounted for. The only exception are unions of government employees. Unions very likely HURT teacher compensation by aggressively protecting the status quo model.

I used to work for a subsidiary of NUCOR steel. An effort was started to unionize one of their plants. The employees "organized"... to run the union people out of their plant. They pay their people well and care about their safety. A few years ago in a particularly tough year their management didn't take their bonuses so the plant level workers could get more.

The US still has the highest standard of living in the world. Unions have been shrinking in the private sector for decades. Economic freedom and favorable taxes and regulations for business growth are MUCH better for workers.

The US currently has the 17th highest standard of living, and it's dropping. The top spots are mostly Scandinavian countries who also happen to have the strongest unions in the world. In fact if you compare the lists there is quite a bit of overlap.

Human Development Index - Wikipedia

Countries Compared by Labor > Trade union membership. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

I do agree that there are plenty of instances where union rules are harmful, but with some no nonsense regulation I'm sure that could change.