Arizona Election Audit

#276
#276
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes, Trump's Secretary of HHS, Alex Acosta did... but that wasn't some extraordinary or unprecedented course of action. The same thing was done in the fall of 2009 for the H1N1 vaccine. To give the Trump Administration credit for that is to give the Obama Administration credit for the same thing in 2009... and neither deserves it. It's standard protocol during a pandemic.
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I bet in 2009, Obama did receive credit.
 
#279
#279
Weezer said:
Their benefit was they weren't required to conduct the normal, lengthy trials that generally come before FDA approval. Trump authorized the FDA to give emergency approval to vaccines, including the Pfizer vaccine. You do realize they benefitted from emergency? approval?
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There is a lot in here that isn't correct. First, the drug makers are required to conduct phase 1, 2, and 3 trials to apply for EUA. The evaluation time between trials my be compressed, and the phase 3 trial doesn't have to be completed prior to application for EUA, but it does have to be ongoing while meeting certain thresholds. FDA expects (I think) a two month threshold for greater than 50% of phase 3 trial participants prior to application with the rest of the data being available during the evaluation process, but they didn't, and can't, forego phased trials prior to EUA.

Second, FDA received authorization to use EUAs in 2013 when the law was passed. All they need to enact it is a declaration of emergency from any number of gov agencies or imminent threat from homeland security. In the case of Covid, Azar declared an emergency in February. FDA then used their authority to grant EUA for multiple tests, treatments, and vaccines. This has been done for H1N1, MERS, Ebola, and others.

Third, there is no emergency approval. There is approval, and there is Emergency Use Authorization. The Pfizer, Moderna, and JnJ vaccines received the latter. To gain approval, they would go through the BLA process after completion and analysis of the phase 3 trial. This can be a lengthy process, and this is the most significant time savings afforded by the EUA.
 
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#280
#280
Septic said:
100% serious. The R's have been blaming the media stream media/deep-state/rigged-election/social media/hoax ad nauseum for far too long. I'm simply suggesting that the victim angle is unbecoming of such a Grand Old Party.
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It’s much more than just the election. The majority of media outlets are liberal mouthpieces. Stating the truth doesn’t necessarily make one a victim.
 
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#281
#281
TNVOLNAVY said:
Then why are the leftist commies pouring every resource they can find to stop it?
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Do you honestly think anything is gonna come out of this? They could find 500k illegal votes and nothing will be done. The SCOTUS isn’t going to do anything and neither is the military.

I voted for Trump. Do I think the election was 100% legit? No. Is there anything that can realistically be done about it? No.

I have come to terms and accepted that Jim Crowe Biden is the president and Kamala “the ho” Harris will be the first female president in 2024.
 
#282
#282
Anyone pro audit should really look into what the GOP is doing for this audit. It's shameful as hell. Proof they don't care about "honest."
 
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#285
#285
BowlBrother85 said:
In #1, you are advancing the argument of "Trump cut through bureaucratic red tape"... We don't know what that amounted to in terms of time saved... I've seen nothing to believe that it was a big deal.

In #2 and #3, you are talking about incentivizing the completion of their vaccine. That's great, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it helped with the manufacturing and clinical trial testing of the vaccine. It is a fact that the German government invested more into the production of that vaccine, than the United States government did.
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On #1 you can look at the number of mRNA vaccines approved prior to this and any number of articles describing the medical miracle that occurred.

On #2 and #3 you are exposing your lack of understanding large scale investment by businesses. Trump de-risked Pfizer throwing resources at this. He guaranteed $2 billion in revenue prior to an approved vaccine AND removed the risk of billions in product liability lawsuits. It became a no-brainer, low-risk strategic decision for Pfizer to throw massive resources at this. Germany deserves credit to for incentivizing BioNTech as well.
 
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#286
#286
K-town Vol Fan said:
The border has been a mess for decades. There's a reason Trump wanted to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. It wasn't because things were going swimmingly.
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So Trump's words are literal, but Biden's are more abstract? What if Trump went on to say that fewer Mexicans crossing into the US meant fewer US dollars flowing back to Mexico, and the decrease in US dollars will cost Mexico dearly? What if Trump simply said "If Mexico won't stem the tide at the border, we will, and we will offset foreign aid by what it costs us to build a wall"? There are many ways to discuss what "pay for something" really means. The problem with all the plans was simply that congress controls the budget - whether the construction cost or any changes in foreign aid, so in the end Trump's hands were tied regardless of his intentions. To a great extent we're reaping what an obstructionist congress sowed ... and more recently what Biden's injudicious mouth caused.
 
#287
#287
McDad said:
agreed.

How in the world can anybody look at Fauci/CDC and honestly conclude there is no political agenda and that organization and its message is solely about science?
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The CDC is like any other highly technical bureaucracy. Entry level people tend to have great credentials, enthusiasm, and lack experience. They probably peak about 3-10 years in. As they move up the food chain, they become distanced from the hard core science because micromanagement has to have reports, set goals, and otherwise meddle; and those are the people pulled from productive work to pump out endless needless reports and other required drivel.

When previously competent technical people get to top levels, they are more hindrance than anything else because most people at the Fauci level think they are still on top of the technology that passed them by. Could they still be technically competent? Sure, but that would require they stay at the working level and aren't done in by micromanagers. Hog is right; distributed/fully delegated management is far more productive than most other management styles. Trump inherited the CDC warts and all; he either used it or discarded it, and basically it was what he had in the .gov toolbox.
 
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#288
#288
hUTch2002 said:
By December? I don’t think it is laughable. In current day there was no one in Washington outside of the administration who thought that was remotely possible. So why is it laughable to think prior presidents would have thought the same as the people with whom they used to share space? I’ll concede that by this point someone possible would have had one but in March Fauci said 12-18 months AT BEST. We are a week or so shy of 14 months from that statement. December was 6 months from that statement. So which President would’ve have done it that quickly with the rules in place prior to this virus and literally everyone saying way more than 6 months? I say none but guess what? There’s no way we will ever know. We do know Obama did absolutely nothing when faced with a pandemic. Granted, this one was different but that’s at least some evidence of how a prior POTUS would act. Trump did a lot of dumb things but he did this particular thing well and apparently BB can’t handle it. We’re way off point for this thread of course so I’m sure that will be mentioned here shortly.
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There was basically no one in DC other than Trump and some insiders who weren't career politicians (elected or appointed) or career bureaucrats. Trump came from a different arena with a more can do way of doing things. Most people in DC are more interested in seeing how they can stay there and profit than in accomplishing anything, so I'd agree this is an instance where an outsider got something done (in spite of politics and bureaucracies) that insiders would not have managed.
 
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#289
#289
utvolpj said:
He's not a Dr but once the guy at the podium starts pushing an agenda you disagree with you replace him.
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And start a new firestorm over who Trump could and couldn't fire - and what he was covering up?
 
#290
#290
volinbham said:
On #1 you can look at the number of mRNA vaccines approved prior to this and any number of articles describing the medical miracle that occurred.

On #2 and #3 you are exposing your lack of understanding large scale investment by businesses. Trump de-risked Pfizer throwing resources at this. He guaranteed $2 billion in revenue prior to an approved vaccine AND removed the risk of billions in product liability lawsuits. It became a no-brainer, low-risk strategic decision for Pfizer to throw massive resources at this. Germany deserves credit to for incentivizing BioNTech as well.
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How about I just laugh my a$$ off at your flowery description?
 
#291
#291
BigOrangeTrain said:
Do you honestly think anything is gonna come out of this? They could find 500k illegal votes and nothing will be done. The SCOTUS isn’t going to do anything and neither is the military.

I voted for Trump. Do I think the election was 100% legit? No. Is there anything that can realistically be done about it? No.

I have come to terms and accepted that Jim Crowe Biden is the president and Kamala “the ho” Harris will be the first female president in 2024.
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Well, of course nothing will come from it. This is all about political posturing from the GOP's Arizona state legislature.

Even if you do concede both Arizona and Georgia to Donald Trump, what does that do to the 2020 Electoral College Map? Joe Biden still wins with 279 electoral college votes to 259 for Donald Trump. I wonder how many Trump supporters who are posting to this thread even realize that? I would bet that none of you do.
 
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#292
#292
TNVOLNAVY said:
Then why are the leftist commies pouring every resource they can find to stop it?
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They aren't. Your characterization is ridiculous. Even if you flip Arizona's 11 electoral college votes over to Donald Trump, that still leaves Joe Biden with 295 electoral college votes, with only 270 needed to win the presidential election. This doesn't matter to anyone, except those people (such as the Republican Party members of the Arizona state legislature) who are trying to raise money from Trump voters.
 
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#293
#293
AM64 said:
And start a new firestorm over who Trump could and couldn't fire - and what he was covering up?
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well I really don't care that some supposed firestorm might upset dear leader. Part of the job he signed up for

I didn't say fire him I said to stop giving him the microphone every night in primetime. He chose to let Fauci drive policy and it cost us all
 
#295
#295
BowlBrother85 said:
They aren't. Your characterization is ridiculous. Even if you flip Arizona's 11 electoral college votes over to Donald Trump, that still leaves Joe Biden with 295 electoral college votes, with only 270 needed to win the presidential election. This doesn't matter to anyone, except those people (such as the Republican Party members of the Arizona state legislature) who are trying to raise money from Trump voters.
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Imagine being OK with irregularities in our voting system. Some of you deserve the life of a Venezuelan
 
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#296
#296
BowlBrother85 said:
I don't see Biden pleading on social media for credit for the vaccine distribution. Was Trump begging for credit for the vaccines on Twitter in December? Yes, he was... and he still would be if they hadn't kicked him off.

Off topic, but the social media strategy of these two men is noticeably different. Trump used Twitter to air personal grievances, make wild boasts, play the victim card, insult his critics and beg for credit. Biden uses it to say "Get vaccinated America" and talk about policy.
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The big difference is Trump's handlers couldn't keep him off social media, Biden's handlers do......when was the last time Biden freelanced anything? Last comment not on a teleprompter?
 
#297
#297
BigOrangeTrain said:
Do you honestly think anything is gonna come out of this? They could find 500k illegal votes and nothing will be done. The SCOTUS isn’t going to do anything and neither is the military.

I voted for Trump. Do I think the election was 100% legit? No. Is there anything that can realistically be done about it? No.

I have come to terms and accepted that Jim Crowe Biden is the president and Kamala “the ho” Harris will be the first female president in 2024.
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Nothing will happen to Biden, but the next election will be much more legit.
 
#300
#300
hUTch2002 said:
By December? I don’t think it is laughable. In current day there was no one in Washington outside of the administration who thought that was remotely possible. So why is it laughable to think prior presidents would have thought the same as the people with whom they used to share space? I’ll concede that by this point someone possible would have had one but in March Fauci said 12-18 months AT BEST. We are a week or so shy of 14 months from that statement. December was 6 months from that statement. So which President would’ve have done it that quickly with the rules in place prior to this virus and literally everyone saying way more than 6 months? I say none but guess what? There’s no way we will ever know. We do know Obama did absolutely nothing when faced with a pandemic. Granted, this one was different but that’s at least some evidence of how a prior POTUS would act. Trump did a lot of dumb things but he did this particular thing well and apparently BB can’t handle it. We’re way off point for this thread of course so I’m sure that will be mentioned here shortly.
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Do you have quotes of people saying this? Or are you just basing it off the fact that some people like Fauci were predicting mid-2021? Who said it was impossible?
 
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