Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

[Caculator]

BJ's choke factor puts him behind a whole lot more.

 

[landscapingvol]

no, apparently it's the schedule's fault.

and i'm still waiting for answers. not excuses.

Reasons aren't excuses. Name a coach that will routinely beat those 3 schools at Tennessee who will realistically coach at UT. Has he lost some games he shouldn't have at UT? Yes. Has he beaten some teams at UT that were more talented? Yes. He should have beaten SC or Vandy last season but coaching mistakes is the least of the reasons. Injuries, Hurd's drama, and having to play inexperienced players were the major factors not CBJ.

 

[jakez4ut]

Reasons aren't excuses. Name a coach that will routinely beat those 3 schools at Tennessee who will realistically coach at UT. Has he lost some games he shouldn't have at UT? Yes. Has he beaten some teams at UT that were more talented? Yes. He should have beaten SC or Vandy last season but coaching mistakes is the least of the reasons. Injuries, Hurd's drama, and having to play inexperienced players were the major factors not CBJ.

i haven't said anyone has to routinely beat anyone. i pretty much agree Bama is a loss.

as for the rest, you're deflecting, and still haven't answered my questions.

 

[sjt18]

Reasons aren't excuses. Name a coach that will routinely beat those 3 schools at Tennessee who will realistically coach at UT. Has he lost some games he shouldn't have at UT? Yes. Has he beaten some teams at UT that were more talented? Yes. He should have beaten SC or Vandy last season but coaching mistakes is the least of the reasons. Injuries, Hurd's drama, and having to play inexperienced players were the major factors not CBJ.

The HC is responsible for those other things too. It is part of being the (well paid) "caretaker of Tennessee football".

 

[jakez4ut]

The HC is responsible for those other things too. It is part of being the (well paid) "caretaker of Tennessee football".

and none of it is relevant to the "to play bama or not" conversation.

 

[sjt18]

i haven't said anyone has to routinely beat anyone. i pretty much agree Bama is a loss.

as for the rest, you're deflecting, and still haven't answered my questions.

An 0-8 record against the West will cause someone to deflect... desperately.

UT is the only program in the East without a win vs the West during Jones' tenure. Even UK and Vandy have wins.

 

[sjt18]

Reasons aren't excuses. Name a coach that will routinely beat those 3 schools at Tennessee who will realistically coach at UT.

Might as well quit trying to win championships, huh? Just too hard and requires you to fire nice guys who work hard when they don't perform.

Has he lost some games he shouldn't have at UT? Yes.

Yes. At least one in every season.

Has he beaten some teams at UT that were more talented? Yes.

Really? Who? Arguably USCe... but they were by no stretch loaded with talented depth

 

[jakez4ut]

An 0-8 record against the West will cause someone to deflect... desperately.

UT is the only program in the East without a win vs the West during Jones' tenure. Even UK and Vandy have wins.

2-20 against the West in the last 9 years.
-0-9 against Bama, 2-11 against the rest.
1-8 against Fl
3-6 against GA
6-34.
throw in 2 losses Mo, 3 losses to Vandy, 4 or 5 losses to USCe, and a loss to KY in there as well....

Beecher said it best. Bama isn't THE problem. TN is.

 

[KBVol]

Nope. Never said that. I am a traditionalist and would hate to see the game go. But there is no way around it right now that it is a hurdle to overcome in order to win the East.

The bigger hurdle right now is evidently Vanderbilt and/or any team coached by Wil Muschamp.

 

[HARTUPM]

I would rank him 128th

 

[BeecherVol]

At no point have I said Bama is costing UT the division Ethel, quit whining and realize UT has a much tougher road than UF or UGA. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. Simply because you believe UT should be able to beat Alabama, UGA, and UF on a regular basis doesn't somehow magically make it true. Every team in the West plays Alabama so it evens out, I am not sure why you cannot grasp that.

I asked when has Bama cost Jones the east and you said "Um, last year."

I'm whining? That's rich. But we have to play Bama.

And then you go off the deep end with a bunch of stuff that wasn't posted. I don't expect him to beat Saban. Never have and that isn't changing. No one expects him to with a straight face.

Winning a poor east is a different matter. One that Saban/Bama has yet to factor in to. Including last year.

 

[BeecherVol]

Well when you play Alabama and LSU out of the West a majority of the time a poor record tends to happen regardless of the coach. Glad you pointed out 2015, what about the other 10 years since we beat them? Name another SEC school that routinely beats either of those teams. My point in all of this is you can't simply blame CBJ for not making it to Atlanta based on coaching alone. The schedule has a lot to do with who makes it and who does not. UF and UGA have had the benefit of much more favorable SEC schedules.

No reason to build the wall this early. I don't see too many claiming he's gonna win the division this year. I'm certainly not.

 

[BeecherVol]

An 0-8 record against the West will cause someone to deflect... desperately.

UT is the only program in the East without a win vs the West during Jones' tenure. Even UK and Vandy have wins.

So if we could play KY 3 times a year we would be back in Atl.

All for it.

 

[BeecherVol]

2-20 against the West in the last 9 years.
-0-9 against Bama, 2-11 against the rest.
1-8 against Fl
3-6 against GA
6-34.
throw in 2 losses Mo, 3 losses to Vandy, 4 or 5 losses to USCe, and a loss to KY in there as well....

Beecher said it best. Bama isn't THE problem. TN is.

The OVC is in play.

 

[VolGee4]

Might as well quit trying to win championships, huh? Just too hard and requires you to fire nice guys who work hard when they don't perform.

Yes. At least one in every season.

Really? Who? Arguably USCe... but they were by no stretch loaded with talented depth

USCe in 2013 definitely was. Not sure that's a debate.

 

[VolGee4]

The bigger hurdle right now is evidently Vanderbilt and/or any team coached by Wil Muschamp.

And apparently y'all don't read the thread. All I said was that's a competitive disadvantage, which is a fact. I have also stated that you have to beat Vandy and USC, especially when you beat UF and UGA.

 

[landscapingvol]

You can't quantify the effect of playing Bama every year into a number of wins or losses. I would love to find out what UT's record would be without a yearly game with Bama each year. It's silly to have a permanent cross over rivalry for any team in the East or West. There are several teams UT used to play regularly but doesn't anymore. I would love to see what UGA or UF's record would be or what the impact would be on their coach having to play Bama each season or UK, USC, or Vandy. It is very demoralizing for virtually every team to play them. Don't pretend that the coaches and players don't feel an intense pressure to beat them. What does that pressure look like in terms of wins and losses? No one knows but it is very similar to the pressure CPF felt during his tenure vs. UF and it took a major toll on the players as well. No one is making excuses or deflecting blame but many just simply dismiss it as UT not being able to beat the West. Again, UT has drawn by far the toughest opponents out of the West overall by far when comparing it to the rest of the East. That is not an excuse that is a fact. UT hasn't drawn a team out of the West with fewer than eight regular season wins since 2008, no other team in the East can claim anything close to that. So, to compare any other team in the East's record vs. the West as evidence isn't quite the same.

 

[jakez4ut]

You can't quantify the effect of playing Bama every year into a number of wins or losses. I would love to find out what UT's record would be without a yearly game with Bama each year. It's silly to have a permanent cross over rivalry for any team in the East or West. There are several teams UT used to play regularly but doesn't anymore. I would love to see what UGA or UF's record would be or what the impact would be on their coach having to play Bama each season or UK, USC, or Vandy. It is very demoralizing for virtually every team to play them. Don't pretend that the coaches and players don't feel an intense pressure to beat them. What does that pressure look like in terms of wins and losses? No one knows but it is very similar to the pressure CPF felt during his tenure vs. UF and it took a major toll on the players as well. No one is making excuses or deflecting blame but many just simply dismiss it as UT not being able to beat the West. Again, UT has drawn by far the toughest opponents out of the West overall by far when comparing it to the rest of the East. That is not an excuse that is a fact. UT hasn't drawn a team out of the West with fewer than eight regular season wins since 2008, no other team in the East can claim anything close to that. So, to compare any other team in the East's record vs. the West as evidence isn't quite the same.

:cray:

 

[jakez4ut]

so to sum up...

if it's hard, don't do it.

 

[jakez4ut]

if you're not on the path of least resistance, you're on the wrong path?

 

[KBVol]

And apparently y'all don't read the thread. All I said was that's a competitive disadvantage, which is a fact. I have also stated that you have to beat Vandy and USC, especially when you beat UF and UGA.

And apparently you can't understand what you read. You keep talking about Alabama being such a huge hurdle to getting to the SECCG....yet, last year, Alabama's thumping the crap out of us had little to nothing to do with us losing the SECe division.....losses to SCar and Vandy are what wrecked the season.

Yes playing Alabama every year is a potential disadvantage. But we can literally lose to them every single year and still win the East every single year. How about, for once, beat the other West team we play every year? Our season simply doesn't hinge on the Alabama game every year like so many are trying to argue.

 

[sjt18]

USCe in 2013 definitely was. Not sure that's a debate.

Yeah. It is. USCe had a couple of star guys including Clowney but were not extraordinarily talented out of those few. Their main advantage was having one of the greatest college HC's on the sideline.

He knew how to use talent and how to cover up deficiencies.... Jones just complains about what he doesn't have.

 

[BeecherVol]

You can't quantify the effect of playing Bama every year into a number of wins or losses. I would love to find out what UT's record would be without a yearly game with Bama each year. It's silly to have a permanent cross over rivalry for any team in the East or West. There are several teams UT used to play regularly but doesn't anymore. I would love to see what UGA or UF's record would be or what the impact would be on their coach having to play Bama each season or UK, USC, or Vandy. It is very demoralizing for virtually every team to play them. Don't pretend that the coaches and players don't feel an intense pressure to beat them. What does that pressure look like in terms of wins and losses? No one knows but it is very similar to the pressure CPF felt during his tenure vs. UF and it took a major toll on the players as well. No one is making excuses or deflecting blame but many just simply dismiss it as UT not being able to beat the West. Again, UT has drawn by far the toughest opponents out of the West overall by far when comparing it to the rest of the East. That is not an excuse that is a fact. UT hasn't drawn a team out of the West with fewer than eight regular season wins since 2008, no other team in the East can claim anything close to that. So, to compare any other team in the East's record vs. the West as evidence isn't quite the same.

Would getting beat by 40 in Atl carry over into the bowl success?

You sure you want to come off that emotional and physical beating and try to keep a bowl streak going?

The negative impact could be epic.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You can't quantify the effect of playing Bama every year....

Landscaping, every team in the SEC West plays Bama every single year. Every one of them. Except Bama themselves, of course.

Tennessee's challenge is not unique, and Bama is not always a tough team to beat. There have been years when both Florida and Georgia were MUCH more challenging than the pachyderms.

It's a cyclical thing, and yes, one day we'll be back on top.

Let's don't shy away from challenges, let's embrace them. That's what you do when you're one of the greatest programs in the college game.

Go Vols!

 

[landscapingvol]

Yes every team in the West does play them which evens out, everyone is the East does not with UT also drawing LSU a majority of the time over the last decade. And that is my point, UT has just had a bad luck of the draw which is beyond coach's control. That is one of the considerations when gauging CBJ's success.