Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#401
#401
BeecherVol said:
It hasn't been since Jones has been here. Specifically the last 2 years, he wasn't gonna compete for it the first 2 anyway.

Im not sure why he feels the need to explain that Bama is better than everybody else. Its not like that is in debate and was actually the original point that I made.
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it might hold more water if UGA and FL were just waxing their west opponents on their way to 8-0, 7-1 conf records.

but they're not.

as it stands, in this version of the East, any time you beat both UGA and FL, you should WALK to ATL. by the same token, if you're FL or GA, and you beat FL/GA and TN, they should in turn, WALK to ATL.
 
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#402
#402
jakez4ut said:
it might hold more water if UGA and FL were just waxing their west opponents on their way to 8-0, 7-1 conf records.

but they're not.

as it stands, in this version of the East, any time you beat both UGA and FL, you should WALK to ATL. by the same token, if you're FL or GA, and you beat FL/GA and TN, they should in turn, WALK to ATL.
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Pretty much.
 
#403
#403
BeecherVol said:
Pretty much.
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maybe over simplified a bit, but given how the three of us have done against West opponents, you really just gotta win one to give yourself some assurances. you don't have to go 7-1 or 8-0. in this version, 6-2 most years will get you there, 1 west, 1 east loss.

cant' lose to both GA and FL. that much is fact.

heck, the way the division has gone, i'd really expect to see more 3 way ties at 6-2.
 
#405
#405
wmcovol said:
Clawson? Are you ****in kidding me? Ask Fulmer about who he'd rather have as an OC. I'll bet you $1k he'd say Butch.
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Fulmer was rolling the wrong way well before Clawson.

I doubt even Phil puts his demise on Clawson. He's just an easy target. Pretty well regarded coach.
 
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#407
#407
Came in looking to discuss Butch Jones subjective ranking. Left annoyed that some government yahoo is stealing our tax dollars by arguing about it online.
 
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#408
#408
IF we don't get lucky as hell against APP State then Butch is likely UT's ex coach by now. What ifs cuts both ways.
 
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#411
#411
KBVol said:
I have a tremendous amount of autonomy having been in my current industry for 20+ years, I set my own schedule. I multitask between meetings and appointments. Plenty of times I step away from posting on VN due to time constraints, but most of the time I can check in 2-3 times a day.

Glad you could check in between shoveling dead 'possums off the highway.
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I wasn't aware that guys who ride the back of a garbage truck had meetings to attend :crazy:
 
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#412
#412
I'm really glad that I have a guy that rides the back of a garbage truck where I live. He's a good man.
 
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#413
#413
BeecherVol said:
Fulmer was rolling the wrong way well before Clawson.

I doubt even Phil puts his demise on Clawson. He's just an easy target. Pretty well regarded coach.
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Fulmer actually had a pretty long standing habit of deflecting responsibility. Clawson gets blamed for not fixing in less than a year what it took 10 years to mess up.
 
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#414
#414
wmcovol said:
Clawson? Are you ****in kidding me? Ask Fulmer about who he'd rather have as an OC. I'll bet you $1k he'd say Butch.
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Fulmer screwed the O up. It took him about 10 years for it to get as bad as it was when Clawson arrived. No one was going to fix it quickly. When the pressure mounted, Fulmer made it worse by stepping in and micromanaging.

Clawson appears to be a pretty middling coach... as does Jones... but Fulmer's problems didn't start much less end with Clawson.
 
#415
#415
sjt18 said:
Fulmer screwed the O up. It took him about 10 years for it to get as bad as it was when Clawson arrived. No one was going to fix it quickly. When the pressure mounted, Fulmer made it worse by stepping in and micromanaging.

Clawson appears to be a pretty middling coach... as does Jones... but Fulmer's problems didn't start much less end with Clawson.
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No where did I post that Clawson was solely responsible for Fulmers problems. Far from it but he was the reason he was fired. At the start of 2008, no one expected it was a "win or else" season for CPF but the team was so screwed up (far worse than anything Sanders did) that the door was opened. Has anyone seen flipping the OL in the SEC since Clawson left?
 
#416
#416
jakez4ut said:
way too much stock being put on "having to beat Bama" to win the division. it's simply not true.
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We don't 'have' to beat Alabama to win the East, but doing so makes it more difficult for another east team to back into the championship game.

If we take a 2nd loss in addition to our annual loss to Alabama then any other East team can lose to us, and still lock down the division as long as they win out. We are out of the running for the East, usually before the end of October under our current schedule. This has been compounded the last several years by our inability to beat any SECw team.
 
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#419
#419
sjt18 said:
Fulmer screwed the O up. It took him about 10 years for it to get as bad as it was when Clawson arrived. No one was going to fix it quickly. When the pressure mounted, Fulmer made it worse by stepping in and micromanaging.

Clawson appears to be a pretty middling coach... as does Jones... but Fulmer's problems didn't start much less end with Clawson.
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Exactly.
 
#420
#420
KBVol said:
So that's what you got? That's it? Lol. Have a good one 1321.....see you after your next emotional outburst.
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Your funny dude. You call people ignorant, Chit on any positive thread and whine like a 5 year old.

You haven't seen me outburst on this site and I've been here before Butch was hired. Having fun ruffling you negavols feathers yes, but outbursts no.

Thanks for the laughs while drinking a cold beer! Cheers 🍻
 
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#421
#421
jakez4ut said:
except UGA and UF routinely lose to West teams too. they just don't lose to both every year.

UF and UGA have both lost to their permanent rivals a couple times during that stretch as well. neither has fared well against Bama when they've played them during this stretch.

this deal with putting Bama on this pedestal, i get it, it's deserved.

but they're not the reason we're not winning the East the last 2-3 years.

2013 UGA beat LSU, lost Auburn
2014 UGA beat ARK, beat Auburn
2015 UGA lost Bama, Beat Auburn
2016 UGA lost Ole Miss, beat Auburn

2013 UF beat Ark, lost LSU
2014 UF Lost Bama, Lost LSU
2015 UF beat Ole Miss, Lost LSU
2016 UF lost ARk, beat LSU

so out of 16 games, only 1 year did either of these teams beat both their west opponents. and that team didn't win the East.....

way too much stock being put on "having to beat Bama" to win the division. it's simply not true.
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I am not talking about UF and UGA. I was merely using their schedules to prove a point and that is of course playing Bama every year has a negative impact on the perception/results of CBJ. To argue otherwise is silly and to suggest that he rest of the SEC East is in the same boat as UT is false when it comes to scheduling. UT hasn't beat Bama in over a decade and in general no one in the SEC has beaten Alabama on a half competitive basis in that span either with the exception of possibly Ole Miss. I am suggesting that having rotated another West team onto the schedule other than Alabama would greatly benefit UT and would have a major impact on their schedule. The last time UT beat Alabama just happens to coincide with the last time UT won the East. When you start the season virtually 0-1 in the SEC does give the rest of the East a major advantage. By the way on the "when has the Bama loss impacted the East race" assertion; losing another offensive lineman and second best d-tackle for the rest of the season does impact a race especially when the other two teams in the East don't have to play a very physical team like Alabama on a regular basis. The physical play of Alabama takes a toll on a team that cannot be quantified simply by a team's win/loss record but a virtually automatic four losses off of a team's conference record would greatly impact a coach's perception just like adding four losses would to McElwain or Smart. A possible 18-14 or better conference record wouldn't necessitate a hot seat for a coach's job neither would possible back to back 10 win seasons, just like a 13-11 conference record for McElwain would have him in a totally different light as a coach.
 
#422
#422
landscapingvol said:
I am not talking about UF and UGA. I was merely using their schedules to prove a point and that is of course playing Bama every year has a negative impact on the perception/results of CBJ. To argue otherwise is silly and to suggest that he rest of the SEC East is in the same boat as UT is false when it comes to scheduling. UT hasn't beat Bama in over a decade and in general no one in the SEC has beaten Alabama on a half competitive basis in that span either with the exception of possibly Ole Miss. I am suggesting that having rotated another West team onto the schedule other than Alabama would greatly benefit UT and would have a major impact on their schedule. The last time UT beat Alabama just happens to coincide with the last time UT won the East. When you start the season virtually 0-1 in the SEC does give the rest of the East a major advantage. By the way on the "when has the Bama loss impacted the East race" assertion; losing another offensive lineman and second best d-tackle for the rest of the season does impact a race especially when the other two teams in the East don't have to play a very physical team like Alabama on a regular basis. The physical play of Alabama takes a toll on a team that cannot be quantified simply by a team's win/loss record but a virtually automatic four losses off of a team's conference record would greatly impact a coach's perception just like adding four losses would to McElwain or Smart. A possible 18-14 or better conference record wouldn't necessitate a hot seat for a coach's job neither would possible back to back 10 win seasons, just like a 13-11 conference record for McElwain would have him in a totally different light as a coach.
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So if you can't beat em, quit.

Got it.
 
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#423
#423
BeardedVol said:
We don't 'have' to beat Alabama to win the East, but doing so makes it more difficult for another east team to back into the championship game.

If we take a 2nd loss in addition to our annual loss to Alabama then any other East team can lose to us, and still lock down the division as long as they win out. We are out of the running for the East, usually before the end of October under our current schedule. This has been compounded the last several years by our inability to beat any SECw team.
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and no east team has gone undefeated in conf. And every eat team save UGA has lost to at least 1 west opponent every year over the past few years.


And the year UGA beat both west opponents they still didn't win the division.

Beating bama is important but it's not the path to the East.

It just doesn't matter. If all your division competitors lose to a west team, does it matter that ours just happens to be bama every year?

The sin, is losing both.
 
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#424
#424
Smokey123 said:
Which is my point.... It's hypocrisy. Popavich and Butch said almost the same thing, yet one was praised for those words, the other was called a laughing stock and a fake coach.
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Tom Herman said some similarly goofy things. No one batted an eye.

"Usually a five-star kid has five-star talent," Herman said "What rankings don’t do though is crack their chest open and look at their heart."
 
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