Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#376
#376
Smokey123 said:
Pop and K were praised for the WORDS they said, Butch was made fun of. Both have used coach speak in similar ways. My comment wasn't comparing how good of coaches they were lol
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You re pretty naive if you don't think that matters.
 
#378
#378
BeecherVol said:
How would it had gone over had Derek Dooley dropped "champions of life" at the podium in Lexington, Ky?
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Why does it matter now? Dooley hasn't been the coach here for 5 years. He was horrible and I felt bad for Butch having to clean up his mess as soon as he stepped on campus.
 
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#379
#379
VolFreakJosh said:
Why does it matter now? Dooley hasn't been the coach here for 5 years. He was horrible and I felt bad for Butch having to clean up his mess as soon as he stepped on campus.
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Yeah...me too. Especially for the paupers salary he was able to pull.

Poor guy.
 
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#380
#380
atlvol1 said:
The real issue isn't whether Butch Jones is the 52nd best coach, or the 42nd, or even the 32nd. Even his defenders seem to concede he's outside the top 25 looking in.

The real issue is, when you are (or should be) a top 10 program, why are you happy with the guy who is the 32nd (or 42nd or 52nd) best coach in college football?
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Good point. Add to that his below average SEC record and his dismal record against top 25 ranked teams, and it's clear to see why his is not a top 25 coach. He may be a top 25 recruiter, but he is not a top tier coach.

One thing is for sure though, he is getting top 25 compensation.
 
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#381
#381
VolFreakJosh said:
Why does it matter now? Dooley hasn't been the coach here for 5 years. He was horrible and I felt bad for Butch having to clean up his mess as soon as he stepped on campus.
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It matters in the context of the discussion. Why quote the post?

Felt bad? Jones is not at UT without Dooley. If you like Jones thats not a reason to feel bad for him, unless you were gonna pull for him at another school.
 
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#382
#382
KBVol said:
Sounds about right. You sit on your lazy ass with a government job that demands no accountability while guys like me go out and bust it with real jobs that ultimately pay your measley little "salary".

Again, you're admission that you work for the government explains a lot about how you come across through your posts.
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:eek:lol:

Edit: By the way, as much as your on here whether night or day I hardly believe your busting anything besides your thumbs against your phone screen.
 
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#384
#384
Why quibble about where CBJ is ranked outside the Top 25? Isn't the real issue why UT's HC isn't ranked in the Top 25? We're paying a Top 25 salary.
 
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#387
#387
Orange_Vol1321 said:
:eek:lol:

Edit: By the way, as much as your on here whether night or day I hardly believe your busting anything besides your thumbs against your phone screen.
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I have a tremendous amount of autonomy having been in my current industry for 20+ years, I set my own schedule. I multitask between meetings and appointments. Plenty of times I step away from posting on VN due to time constraints, but most of the time I can check in 2-3 times a day.

Glad you could check in between shoveling dead 'possums off the highway.
 
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#388
#388
KBVol said:
I have a tremendous amount of autonomy having been in my current industry for 20+ years, I set my own schedule. I multitask between meetings and appointments. Plenty of times I step away from posting on VN due to time constraints, but most of the time I can check in 2-3 times a minute.

Glad you could check in between shoveling dead 'possums off the highway.
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That phone autocorrected you again but fixed.
 
#389
#389
BeecherVol said:
No one is judging Jones by Saban. It would be foolish to try and that goes for everyone else currently in the conference which lends to my point.

UF hasn't replaced Meyer or Spurrier for that matter with JM.
UGA has a recruiter that is an unproven HC going into his second year.
SC hired a guy that couldn't get it done at UF.
Then you have Mizzou, Vandy, and KY

What year since Jones has been here has Bama cost him the east?
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Umm this past year? If you take that loss away, as well as last season and UT would have more than likely finished with 10 win seasons back to back with an SEC East title. Something they haven't done in over a decade and this entire discussion wouldn't be occurring. I agree he should have beaten SC/Vandy but injuries played a major role in those losses and having to play a very physical team like Alabama takes a major toll on an already depleted team. You can say that beating Alabama isn't the measuring stick but in reality it is. You can argue that every SEC West team has to play Alabama and they do but that includes EVERY West team not just one of them so it all evens out. Georgia hasn't played Alabama in the regular season since 2008 and every year UF has in that same span has resulted in seasons with at least 4 conference losses for the Gators; SC hasn't played them in the regular season since 2010. Don't pretend it isn't a major factor in gauging CBJ's performance because CBJ is 14-10 against the SEC East for 58% winning percentage, compare that to 4-12 or 25% for CDD, and 11-9 for a 55% winning percentage in CPF's final four full seasons. Now if you take into account UT's record vs. their main 3 rivals which are Alabama, Georgia, and Florida in that time span it becomes even more interesting, CBJ is 3-9 which was the exact same record as CPF; UGA is 4-8 vs. those same teams dating back to 2007; and UF is 5-7 vs. them dating back to 2009
 
#390
#390
LA Vol said:
Why quibble about where CBJ is ranked outside the Top 25? Isn't the real issue why UT's HC isn't ranked in the Top 25? We're paying a Top 25 salary.
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I hope it's to establish what we care willing to pay a coach. When a coach leaves if you aren't willing to pay the next guy at least what you were paying the guy that just left, keep looking until you find a guy worth paying a lot.

The HC at UT's pay should never dip below what CBJ is making.
 
#391
#391
landscapingvol said:
Umm this past year? If you take that loss away, as well as last season and UT would have more than likely finished with 10 win seasons back to back with an SEC East title. Something they haven't done in over a decade and this entire discussion wouldn't be occurring. I agree he should have beaten SC/Vandy but injuries played a major role in those losses and having to play a very physical team like Alabama takes a major toll on an already depleted team. You can say that beating Alabama isn't the measuring stick but in reality it is. You can argue that every SEC West team has to play Alabama and they do but that includes EVERY West team not just one of them so it all evens out. Georgia hasn't played Alabama in the regular season since 2008 and every year UF has in that same span has resulted in seasons with at least 4 conference losses for the Gators; SC hasn't played them in the regular season since 2010. Don't pretend it isn't a major factor in gauging CBJ's performance because CBJ is 14-10 against the SEC East for 58% winning percentage, compare that to 4-12 or 25% for CDD, and 11-9 for a 55% winning percentage in CPF's final four full seasons. Now if you take into account UT's record vs. their main 3 rivals which are Alabama, Georgia, and Florida in that time span it becomes even more interesting, CBJ is 3-9 which was the exact same record as CPF; UGA is 4-8 vs. those same teams dating back to 2007; and UF is 5-7 vs. them dating back to 2009
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If you take away that L he is 5-3 in the conference. How does he get to Atl at 5-3? Unless you are just assuming they win out because Atl is on the line.
 
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#393
#393
landscapingvol said:
Umm this past year? If you take that loss away, as well as last season and UT would have more than likely finished with 10 win seasons back to back with an SEC East title. Something they haven't done in over a decade and this entire discussion wouldn't be occurring. I agree he should have beaten SC/Vandy but injuries played a major role in those losses and having to play a very physical team like Alabama takes a major toll on an already depleted team. You can say that beating Alabama isn't the measuring stick but in reality it is. You can argue that every SEC West team has to play Alabama and they do but that includes EVERY West team not just one of them so it all evens out. Georgia hasn't played Alabama in the regular season since 2008 and every year UF has in that same span has resulted in seasons with at least 4 conference losses for the Gators; SC hasn't played them in the regular season since 2010. Don't pretend it isn't a major factor in gauging CBJ's performance because CBJ is 14-10 against the SEC East for 58% winning percentage, compare that to 4-12 or 25% for CDD, and 11-9 for a 55% winning percentage in CPF's final four full seasons. Now if you take into account UT's record vs. their main 3 rivals which are Alabama, Georgia, and Florida in that time span it becomes even more interesting, CBJ is 3-9 which was the exact same record as CPF; UGA is 4-8 vs. those same teams dating back to 2007; and UF is 5-7 vs. them dating back to 2009
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On another note. Since we are using "ifs", if Bama was replaced since its an annual L with another west team, why would we be likely have 10 wins the last 2 seasons.
 
#394
#394
BeecherVol said:
On another note. Since we are using "ifs", if Bama was replaced since its an annual L with another west team, why would we be likely have 10 wins the last 2 seasons.
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We wouldn't but I would rather take may chances with say an Auburn, Mississippi State, Texas A & M, Mississippi, or Arkansas on a rotating basis as opposed to Alabama every year. You cannot discount the toll that Alabama takes on a team under Saban. You don't think UGA, UF, and SC have an advantage by only playing Bama every 5 years or so as opposed to playing them every year? I realize that the SEC rotates Western schedules for Eastern teams but you have to admit UT has gotten a crap sandwich in terms of it's Western opponents as compared to UF, and UGA the last few years:
2016 UT: Alabama (14-1), and Texas A & M (8-5)
UF: Arkansas (7-6), and LSU (8-4)
UGA: Ole Miss (5-7), and Auburn (8-5)
2015 UT: Alabama (14-1), and Arkansas (8-5)
UF: Ole Miss (10-3), and LSU (9-3)
UGA: Alabama (14-1), and Auburn (7-6)
2014 UT: Alabama (12-2), Ole Miss (10-3)
UF: LSU (8-5), Alabama (12-2)
UGA: Auburn (8-5), Arkansas (7-6)
2013 UT: Alabama (11-2), Auburn (12-2)
UF: LSU (10-3), Arkansas (3-9)
UGA: Auburn (12-2), LSU (10-3)

UT hasn't played a team from the West with fewer than 8 wins since 2008 and they probably won't this year either, not to mention in 11', 12', 13', and 14' UT drew the top two teams out of the West. It is what it is and that is an extremely difficult path to Atlanta much more difficult than the one UGA or UF has drawn for the most part especially when you add in OOC games against Oklahoma, and Oregon in that same stretch.
 
#395
#395
I'm still missing where UT is in Atl if they beat Bama last year. Or got them off the schedule and beat someone else.
 
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#396
#396
landscapingvol said:
We wouldn't but I would rather take may chances with say an Auburn, Mississippi State, Texas A & M, Mississippi, or Arkansas on a rotating basis as opposed to Alabama every year. You cannot discount the toll that Alabama takes on a team under Saban. You don't think UGA, UF, and SC have an advantage by only playing Bama every 5 years or so as opposed to playing them every year? I realize that the SEC rotates Western schedules for Eastern teams but you have to admit UT has gotten a crap sandwich in terms of it's Western opponents as compared to UF, and UGA the last few years:
2016 UT: Alabama (14-1), and Texas A & M (8-5)
UF: Arkansas (7-6), and LSU (8-4)
UGA: Ole Miss (5-7), and Auburn (8-5)
2015 UT: Alabama (14-1), and Arkansas (8-5)
UF: Ole Miss (10-3), and LSU (9-3)
UGA: Alabama (14-1), and Auburn (7-6)
2014 UT: Alabama (12-2), Ole Miss (10-3)
UF: LSU (8-5), Alabama (12-2)
UGA: Auburn (8-5), Arkansas (7-6)
2013 UT: Alabama (11-2), Auburn (12-2)
UF: LSU (10-3), Arkansas (3-9)
UGA: Auburn (12-2), LSU (10-3)

UT hasn't played a team from the West with fewer than 8 wins since 2008 and they probably won't this year either, not to mention in 11', 12', 13', and 14' UT drew the top two teams out of the West. It is what it is and that is an extremely difficult path to Atlanta much more difficult than the one UGA or UF has drawn for the most part especially when you add in OOC games against Oklahoma, and Oregon in that same stretch.
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except UGA and UF routinely lose to West teams too. they just don't lose to both every year.

UF and UGA have both lost to their permanent rivals a couple times during that stretch as well. neither has fared well against Bama when they've played them during this stretch.

this deal with putting Bama on this pedestal, i get it, it's deserved.

but they're not the reason we're not winning the East the last 2-3 years.

2013 UGA beat LSU, lost Auburn
2014 UGA beat ARK, beat Auburn
2015 UGA lost Bama, Beat Auburn
2016 UGA lost Ole Miss, beat Auburn

2013 UF beat Ark, lost LSU
2014 UF Lost Bama, Lost LSU
2015 UF beat Ole Miss, Lost LSU
2016 UF lost ARk, beat LSU

so out of 16 games, only 1 year did either of these teams beat both their west opponents. and that team didn't win the East.....

way too much stock being put on "having to beat Bama" to win the division. it's simply not true.
 
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#398
#398
BeecherVol said:
This is making even more sense now, in that if we could figure out how to not play Bama we would be better off.
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while we're at it, take FL and GA off the schedule too and we'll run rough shot thru the SEC.
 
#399
#399
jakez4ut said:
way too much stock being put on "having to beat Bama" to win the division. it's simply not true.
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It hasn't been since Jones has been here. Specifically the last 2 years, he wasn't gonna compete for it the first 2 anyway.

Im not sure why he feels the need to explain that Bama is better than everybody else. Its not like that is in debate and was actually the original point that I made.
 
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