Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#227
#227
Doberman said:
Yeah, it'll never be a perfectly tit for tat comparison.
Click to expand...

"Perfect," Doberman?

We're not talking 99% good versus 100% good, here.

We're talking a roster stocked with future NFL talent versus a roster completely devoid of that level of talent.

There is simply no valid comparison of the two starting points. None. Completely different situations.

So compare them 2016 to 2016, current year to current year, or not at all. That's the only objective way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#228
#228
VFL-82-JP said:
"Perfect," Doberman?

We're not talking 99% good versus 100% good, here.

We're talking a roster stocked with future NFL talent versus a roster completely devoid of that level of talent.

There is simply no valid comparison of the two starting points. None. Completely different situations.

So compare them 2016 to 2016, current year to current year, or not at all. That's the only objective way.
Click to expand...


I don't see it that way. But do understand your take.

I've boiled it down to simplify my position.

Harbaugh > Jones.

By a wide margin IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#229
#229
VFL-82-JP said:
Yep, KB, because Michigan wasn't broke the way Tennessee was broke. Not in talent on board, not in relationships with the high school coaches they needed to recruit from, not in relationships with boosters, or with alumni, former coaches, the community, none of that.

Harbaugh may have started below par at Michigan, but Butch had to start below sea level.

That's why I like comparing where they are today...because if you compare them both from their own starting lines, they're at totally different places.
Click to expand...

This is where you prove my point. You're comparing year one to year 3 because of your personal opinion that 2 years in time is equal to whatever difference you see in talent. I could say they were 1 year behind, or 3 years behind, and neither of us would be proven wrong.

Doing that, and then decrying the bias of other posters, is a tad hypocritical. Pretty much everyone here is making assumptions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#230
#230
jakez4ut said:
i'll buy that. while also saying i think Butch has proven that he's a solid recruiter at the same time, and that he was on Kelly's staff, he probably at least played a part in bringing those kids in to CMU and CIN. so it's not quite apples/apples to what he walked in to here, i get what you're saying.
Click to expand...

Jones was only on staff at CMU during Kelly's first year. He was at WVU with Rich Rod for the other 2. He wasn't on Kelly's Cincinnati staff at all, given that he was the head coach at CMU during those three years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#231
#231
The point of contention here is that there isn't 51 coaches better than Butch Jones. If you believe that then you're wrong. I'm sorry. If you've been following closely this whole time and you're still not seeing it then you're a lost cause.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#233
#233
VFL-82-JP said:
In his second year as head coach, Jim Harbaugh had 11 players drafted. In a single draft. Those aren't guys he recruited; that's the situation he inherited.

How many did Butch have drafted after his second season? What did Butch inherit?

There's simply no comparison between the two starting points.

If you ignore all the other massive differences in situation between Michigan at Harbaugh's arrival and Tennessee at Jones', you should at least carefully consider that.
Click to expand...

In his 4th year at UT, Butch lost to USCe, Vandy, and by 39 at home to Bama.

In his 2nd year, Michigan was a blown 4th down spot away from winning in Columbus and going to the playoff. Harbaugh inherited a 1-11 Stanford team and had them 11-1 by Year 4. Harbaugh inherited a SF 49ers dumpster fire and had them in the Super Bowl and they went back to the dumpster after he left.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#234
#234
pharmDvol11 said:
The point of contention here is that there isn't 51 coaches better than Butch Jones. If you believe that then you're wrong. I'm sorry. If you've been following closely this whole time and you're still not seeing it then you're a lost cause.
Click to expand...

That's my point exactly for starting the thread. Even if you think Butch is an average coach (which I do), that would put him around 30 when comparing him to the Power 5 (65 total).
 
#235
#235
pharmDvol11 said:
The point of contention here is that there isn't 51 coaches better than Butch Jones. If you believe that then you're wrong. I'm sorry. If you've been following closely this whole time and you're still not seeing it then you're a lost cause.
Click to expand...

I don't know where I'd rank him. On it's face, 52 does seem a bit low.

I guess I'd ask this question: of the 65 Power 5 teams (and ND), how many would trade their current coach for Butch Jones? I definitely don't think you'd get any takers in the SEC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#236
#236
bamawriter said:
I don't know where I'd rank him. On it's face, 52 does seem a bit low.

I guess I'd ask this question: of the 65 Power 5 teams (and ND), how many would trade their current coach for Butch Jones? I definitely don't think you'd get any takers in the SEC.
Click to expand...

Let me flip that question around on you. How SEC many coaches (other than Saban) would UT trade for Butch? Maybe Malzahn and his bat sh-t crazy wife but that might be it.
 
#237
#237
BigOrangeMojo said:
That's my point exactly for starting the thread. Even if you think Butch is an average coach (which I do), that would put him around 30 when comparing him to the Power 5 (65 total).
Click to expand...

Exactly!

I mean... here are a handful of coaches ranked ahead of CBJ from the list:

Dino Babers
Steve Addazio
Jeff Brohm
Dave Clawson
Justin Fuente
Willie Taggart
Mike MacIntyre


Now stop with this Coach Harbullcrap. Please someone argue why these guys are already better than CBJ
 
#238
#238
BigOrangeMojo said:
Let me flip that question around on you. How SEC many coaches (other than Saban) would UT trade for Butch? Maybe Malzahn and his bat sh-t crazy wife but that might be it.
Click to expand...

While several could be debated, a UT fan shouldn't think twice about taking Malzahn, Mullen, or McElwain.
 
#239
#239
bamawriter said:
While several could be debated, a UT fan shouldn't think twice about taking Malzahn, Mullen, or McElwain.
Click to expand...

McElwain is a better X/O coach than Butch but he's struggling to recruit at Florida. How would he get any big fish at UT (other than going shark hunting, of course)

I think Mullen is a great X/O coach, would he be able to recruit at a bigger school? Let's face it, there's a reason why he keeps interviewing for all these jobs that are step ups and never gets any traction. He didn't have to really worry about Ole Miss on the recruiting trail this year yet his recruiting class didn't get any better than what its been. I'd agree Mullen would probably be a step up but I don't think its a slam dunk
 
#240
#240
bamawriter said:
Jones was only on staff at CMU during Kelly's first year. He was at WVU with Rich Rod for the other 2. He wasn't on Kelly's Cincinnati staff at all, given that he was the head coach at CMU during those three years.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:
 
#241
#241
you can put all the SEC coaches, save Saban and Bama, in a hat, shuffle them up, draw names, and i don't think much changes at any of the schools picking the names.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#242
#242
Tweet about the article ranking the coaches....

Hearing there is some consternation out there about our ranking of Butch Jones. It was unanimously low. Ballots: 46-49-50-53-54.

-Adam Silverstein
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#244
#244
KBVol said:
Tweet about the article ranking the coaches....

Hearing there is some consternation out there about our ranking of Butch Jones. It was unanimously low. Ballots: 46-49-50-53-54.

-Adam Silverstein
Click to expand...

it's been mentioned a couple of times, maybe more, but as you see that spelled out, one thing i really get out of it, is the let down of expectations.

there were so many that picked TN to win the East, and do something last year, that there's just probably a level of distrust now---'if he couldn't do it last year...' type of mentality, and now we'll 'err on the side of caution, in regards to Butch Jones'.

he and TN were perceived as a buy last year, that quickly went to a sell, and they're continuing to sell....cheap.
 
#245
#245
KBVol said:
Tweet about the article ranking the coaches....

Hearing there is some consternation out there about our ranking of Butch Jones. It was unanimously low. Ballots: 46-49-50-53-54.

-Adam Silverstein
Click to expand...

But, but, but they're all wrong.
:p
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#247
#247
KBVol said:
Tweet about the article ranking the coaches....

Hearing there is some consternation out there about our ranking of Butch Jones. It was unanimously low. Ballots: 46-49-50-53-54.

-Adam Silverstein
Click to expand...

Yet the 54th ranked out of 65 coaches beat Adam's Gators last year....
 
#248
#248
He is what he is....an 8-9 win career average coach, who ALWAYS finds a way to lose a game he shouldn't, and may occasionally win a surprise too.

He does it clean, and his players get good grades. He is a cartoon character for the media with his cliches and over the top catchphrases. He is a fantastic program manager, and a suspect game manager. He has proven to be a formidable recruiter, while being a questionable developer of talent. He is classy, and positive while managing to be campy and annoying. He will regularly get you to a bowl game, unfortunately it will be one you really don't want to go to. He is a dream come true for a mid-major or lower tier P5 team, and a point of derision for what should be a top-15 team. He is something for everybody, and quite simply the most divisive coach in our history. He is an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

I'm not sure if he is too low on the list or not, but he shouldn't nearly round out the top half.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 people
#249
#249
'Boro-vol said:
He is what he is....an 8-9 win career average coach, who ALWAYS finds a way to lose a game he shouldn't, and may occasionally win a surprise too.

He does it clean, and his players get good grades. He is a cartoon character for the media with his cliches and over the top catchphrases. He is a fantastic program manager, and a suspect game manager. He has proven to be a formidable recruiter, while being a questionable developer of talent. He is classy, and positive while managing to be campy and annoying. He will regularly get you to a bowl game, unfortunately it will be one you really don't want to go to. He is a dream come true for a mid-major or lower tier P5 team, and a point of derision for what should be a top-15 team. He is something for everybody, and quite simply the most divisive coach in our history. He is an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

I'm not sure if he is too low on the list or not, but he shouldn't nearly round out the top half.
Click to expand...

I was going to post a reply but this guy said it so much better than I could of. Great post! :clapping:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top