Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#276
#276
smokey0625 said:
One upset does not a coach make. Stupid post. He's brought us to the point we expect championships.
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We not only expect championships we actually believe we can win (... well those of us who are NOT negative nancys do ...).

More importantly the players believe they can win. I really don't care what a room full of armchair coaches are media think. It is what the players think that is most important.
 
#278
#278
volfan102455 said:
We not only expect championships we actually believe we can win (... well those of us who are NOT negative nancys do ...).
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I would argue that it's reasonable for UT fans to expect championships simply because UT should be in the conversation on a regular basis.

If you are expecting championships because of anything Butch Jones has done, then your expectation has no factual basis.
 
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#279
#279
volfan102455 said:
We not only expect championships we actually believe we can win (... well those of us who are NOT negative nancys do ...).

More importantly the players believe they can win. I really don't care what a room full of armchair coaches are media think. It is what the players think that is most important.
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Historically I would agree. Jones has not earned that confidence yet.
 
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#280
#280
bamawriter said:
I would argue that it's reasonable for UT fans to expect championships simply because UT should be in the conversation on a regular basis.

If you are expecting championships because of anything Butch Jones has done, then your expectation has no factual basis.
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More detailed than my effort and dead on.
 
#281
#281
bamawriter said:
I would argue that it's reasonable for UT fans to expect championships simply because UT should be in the conversation on a regular basis.

If you are expecting championships because of anything Butch Jones has done, then your expectation has no factual basis.
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When Dooley was here I did not expect championships. I didn't even expect to win games.

Expecting to be champions is a culture thing. Culture starts with the coaches - a coach must believe - if the coach doesn't believe the team will not believe - if the team doesn't believe the fans will not believe.

If a team believes the fans will pick up on that and believe.

You don't normally win games (or anything) if you walk in thinking you will lose.
 
#282
#282
volfan102455 said:
And I would not. They are not better the Jones.

Seriously what makes you think that a coach that could not win in a weaker conference would be able to magically become a big time winner in the SEC? You are either really jaded against Jones or you have no idea what some of those coaches did last year.
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I really don't care for Jones as an HC.
 
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#283
#283
And history is not a predictor of success nor a reason to expect championships.

If that were the case, then the teams that always win would always win and the teams that always lose would always lose.
 
#286
#286
volfan102455 said:
When Dooley was here I did not expect championships. I didn't even expect to win games.

Expecting to be champions is a culture thing. Culture starts with the coaches - a coach must believe - if the coach doesn't believe the team will not believe - if the team doesn't believe the fans will not believe.

If a team believes the fans will pick up on that and believe.

You don't normally win games (or anything) if you walk in thinking you will lose.
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You can talk about em all you want until you figure out how to be in position to do such that's all it is.

No one expected championships under Dooley, I'm not sure that's groundbreaking.
 
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#287
#287
volfan102455 said:
Exactly.
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Exactly? Are you kidding me?

Franklin hasn't dominated anything in the Big East. His first two seasons of 7-6 had him coaching for his job last year. Congrats, he's had one good year in 3....that's lights years from dominating the conference.....a conference that pretty much everybody on VN constantly says is weak and generally sucks.
 
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#288
#288
volfan102455 said:
So it has nothing to do with whether or not those other coaches would be successful at Tennessee or not. Thus you are willing to trade a 9 win coach for a 4 win coach ... really sad.
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Yeah that's what he said...smh
 
#289
#289
Not sure about 52, but there aren't any legit schools who would actually want him. Look at it this way- Memphis's last two coaches are better than our coach. Say that out loud and then decide if that list is too far off base.
 
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#290
#290
volgrad500 said:
Not sure about 52, but there aren't any legit schools who would actually want him. Look at it this way- Memphis's last two coaches are better than our coach. Say that out loud and then decide if that list is too far off base.
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How can you possibly say Norvell(HC for ONE season) is definitely better than Jones? You have an argument with Fuente but it's too early in his HC career imo
 
#291
#291
volfan102455 said:
We not only expect championships we actually believe we can win (... well those of us who are NOT negative nancys do ...).

More importantly the players believe they can win. I really don't care what a room full of armchair coaches are media think. It is what the players think that is most important.
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Well, at least your expectations are higher than Jones', who clearly thinks he should only be judged on getting bowl eligible.

That said, there's a disconnect between your statement that you "expect championships" and then defending and going to the mat for Jones when he consistently underachieves and can't even win a bad SECe when he's the clear and unanimous favorite to do so.

Us so called "negative nancies" are the ones consistently demanding higher expectations and chiding him for lashing out at criticisms for not reaching the team goals and trumpeting getting to and winning meaningless bowl games.
 
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#292
#292
KBVol said:
Well, at least your expectations are higher than Jones', who clearly thinks he should only be judged on getting bowl eligible.

That said, there's a disconnect between your statement that you "expect championships" and then defending and going to the mat for Jones when he consistently underachieves and can't even win a bad SECe when he's the clear and unanimous favorite to do so.

Us so called "negative nancies" are the ones consistently demanding higher expectations and chiding him for lashing out at criticisms for not reaching the team goals and trumpeting getting to and winning meaningless bowl games.
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#rememberDooley

The new stick.
 
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#293
#293
No doubt Butch underachieved last year, we should have beat Vandy and Socar even with all the injuries we had. Without the injuries you're looking at a 10-2/11-1 season. We were arguably the most injured team in the SEC and playing one of the more difficult schedules in the country. Just look what happened to Alabama's secondary when they lost Eddie Jackson.

Yes butch makes mistakes but so does everyone else on the list. Heck, Richt was top 25 and he blew a 3 score lead vs Butch and has a horrible record vs top 25 teams over the past 5 seasons. If people actually believes Butch is the #52 coach in the country they are very ignorant. He's a career 8 win coach when half the people in front of him aren't. He also has the second most wins in the SEC over the past 2 seasons and one of only a handful of teams in the country to win 9+ games over the past 2 seasons. He also had the second longest win streak in the country before the Texas A&M game.

If your argument is he underachieves last season was the only season where he clearly did. Richt, Sumlin and more on that list do it consistently lol
 
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#294
#294
volfan102455 said:
So it has nothing to do with whether or not those other coaches would be successful at Tennessee or not. Thus you are willing to trade a 9 win coach for a 4 win coach ... really sad.
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That 9 win coach could be a 7 win coach in 2 years as the 4 win coach can go onto win 11. All Jones is, is a recruiter. McIntyre has done more at Colorado than Jones has done here. I think Jones is rated a little low. His ranking should be in the 35-40 range.
 
#295
#295
KBVol said:
Well, at least your expectations are higher than Jones', who clearly thinks he should only be judged on getting bowl eligible.

That said, there's a disconnect between your statement that you "expect championships" and then defending and going to the mat for Jones when he consistently underachieves and can't even win a bad SECe when he's the clear and unanimous favorite to do so.

Us so called "negative nancies" are the ones consistently demanding higher expectations and chiding him for lashing out at criticisms for not reaching the team goals and trumpeting getting to and winning meaningless bowl games.
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Consistently underachieves? One season out of 4 is consistent? 2014 he met expectations, 2013 he met expectations, 2015 he met expectations again. 2013 O/U was at 5.5, he won 5. 2014 it was at 5.5 he won 6 and the bowl game, some sites like SDS even had us winning only 4 games! 2015 the O/U was at 7.5.
 
#299
#299
'Boro-vol said:
He is what he is....an 8-9 win career average coach, who ALWAYS finds a way to lose a game he shouldn't, and may occasionally win a surprise too.

He does it clean, and his players get good grades. He is a cartoon character for the media with his cliches and over the top catchphrases. He is a fantastic program manager, and a suspect game manager. He has proven to be a formidable recruiter, while being a questionable developer of talent. He is classy, and positive while managing to be campy and annoying. He will regularly get you to a bowl game, unfortunately it will be one you really don't want to go to. He is a dream come true for a mid-major or lower tier P5 team, and a point of derision for what should be a top-15 team. He is something for everybody, and quite simply the most divisive coach in our history. He is an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

I'm not sure if he is too low on the list or not, but he shouldn't nearly round out the top half.
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Wow. That's pretty damn good. You have 10 likes here yet if you posted the same thing in the recruiting forum, you'd get maybe 2 likes and then get called a pu***. It's interesting how the Football forum is always a lot more critical than the Recruiting forum.
 
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#300
#300
Catbone said:
Wow. That's pretty damn good. You have 10 likes here yet if you posted the same thing in the recruiting forum, you'd get maybe 2 likes and then get called a pu***. It's interesting how the Football forum is always a lot more critical than the Recruiting forum.
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Buncha condescending snobs/asses over in the recruiting forum.
 
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