Any JJJ updates?

#176
#176
VolGee4 said:
The first paragraph is nonsense. Just typical things that weren’t discussed. Absolutely NO ONE said the other 5 stars weren’t good. What we said was that #2 is not the same as #22. History has proven that...time and time again.

On average, top 10 players have a greater chance at being one and done. Sure, you will see players outside the top 10 leave, but some don’t even get drafted.

Can’t debate with nonsense. You just can’t comprehend.
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The first paragraph, in particular, is total nonsense. Total comedy. Seriously, he can't back it up, and why say what is not backed up by the numbers?
 
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#178
#178
KBVol said:
Not even sure what this means? Who the hell wants him to drop his 3 point percentage by 8% if it “looks prettier”? What are you talking about?

I’m in the segment who would like to see him shoot 45-50% overall from the field while showing the athletic ability you typically expect from a 5 star player. Also wouldn’t mind seeing him fairly consistently show the ability to create his own shot and his teammates’ good scoring opportunities while giving the team 14-15 points a games, which is reasonable for a kid who should be one of the top freshmen in the country on a team which struggles to score. At this point, Vescovi, a fellow freshman who just arrived in the country 7 weeks ago has shown much more playmaking and scoring ability than the “5 star” JJJ. At this point, “5 star” JJJ isn’t even the best freshman on the team...it’s some foreign national “3 star” from Uruguay that no one had ever even heard of before last Christmas.
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I meant if he jumped higher so that he looked more explosive then people would accept actually worse stats. Like if you gave him Pons’ vertical and athleticism and took away 3 rebounds per game we would have less of the “not a real 5 star” take.

JJJ is a better overall player than Vescovi imo, but I know most disagree so eh. Vescovi is boom or bust and flashy so a lot of people prefer him, and he creates on offense which is what people look at.
 
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#179
#179
I know I shouldn't be, but I am genuinely shocked that so many people believe every 5* player just seamlessly steps into a starting role and dominates the competition, despite the overwhelming evidence, with this 2019 class in particular, to the contrary. I just don't know how you have a logical debate about that topic without sounding foolish, uninformed, or stubborn to a fault.
 
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#181
#181
KBVol said:
Perhaps. All I’m saying is that at no point has JJJ looked like one of the top 25 freshmen players from this class. A good bit of the time he’s looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t be starting in a .500 SEC basketball team. I’m saying I expected more, much more than the athletic ability and offensive production than he’s shown and provided thus far. And if the guys who have come out with the long knives in this thread after I had the “gall” to say that he hasn’t looked like a 5 star freshman to this point given his accolades and acclaim were being honest, there’s no way they wouldn’t been satisfied with his play if I told them before the season started that we’d get 8 points, a ton of turnovers and 37% shooting from him.

Final thing....I’ve at no point said hes not very good or that he sucks. I’ve said that he’s shown some good things, that he showed a nice stretch there for awhile where he clearly was improving and I said that he has good potential and upside going forward. I just made the cardinal sin on a Vol message board by telling the truth about one of our players, that he’s not looked like a legit 5 star player at any point this season.....which he hasn’t.
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The "truth" as you see it is different from how many others see it. As you see it, there are 3 guys who are 5 stars. That's okay to have that opinion, but your opinion is not necessarily fact or the "truth" as you call it. Others may agree or disagree, but Rome was not built in one day, as many players don't have the numbers you want in year one.
 
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#184
#184
Unfortunately, too many fans think "5-star" translates to the next LeBron and expect similar dominance.
 
#185
#185
cncchris33 said:
I know I shouldn't be, but I am genuinely shocked that so many people believe every 5* player just seamlessly steps into a starting role and dominates the competition, despite the overwhelming evidence, with this 2019 class in particular, to the contrary. I just don't know how you have a logical debate about that topic without sounding foolish, uninformed, or stubborn to a fault.
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You know it will be interesting how Barnes handles Springer next year. On paper he is the best player on the roster. James walked into camp, with two senior guards leading the way coming off a very successful year. Springer walks into camp replacing a senior guard, with a bunch of young teammates, looking for an alpha, off a year that has been like 3 different seasons in one.

Fulkerson has proved that he belongs, as has Pons despite being undersized in their current respective positions, but is either vocal enough to be the leader? Vescovi has moxy but often you want your best players to be your leaders, and he won’t be that guy either. James has a mature demeanor but may not want to be the alpha. Springer could very well not be that automatic 5*, one and done type player either, but when the offense is defended, or the clock is running down, you need “that guy” to make a play in any level of basketball. We “think” Springer will be that guy. Will Barnes encourage him to be that guy is a question.

I’m sure next year will present surprises as they always occur. I just hope we run a lot more. We will have the bodies to defend aggressively and play uptempo for 40 minutes or even speed up our halfcourt sets. Fulkerson can outrun any big in the SEC and Pons probably should be more of a matchup problem in the open court, with his athleticism (assuming he improves his handle). You would think Springer, Keon Johnson, Walker, and James would all be suitable for up tempo. Kicking out to Vescovi or Bailey for a perimeter shot on a secondary break seems would be suitable for them too before the defense gets set. I’m not interested in “run and gun”, but we can still push tempo and take good shots in the process.
 
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#187
#187
cncchris33 said:
I know I shouldn't be, but I am genuinely shocked that so many people believe every 5* player just seamlessly steps into a starting role and dominates the competition, despite the overwhelming evidence, with this 2019 class in particular, to the contrary. I just don't know how you have a logical debate about that topic without sounding foolish, uninformed, or stubborn to a fault.
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I am genuinely shocked that some fans think it is foolish or uninformed to be somewhat disappointed by a 5* freshman guard that is only shooting 37% from the field and has a turnover percentage 4% higher than his assist percentage and can’t get to free throw line 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Or that some think it’s impossible to think JJJ has a disappointing freshman year while also acknowledging he can become a good player and has room to grow.
 
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#188
#188
Namorto1 said:
You know it will be interesting how Barnes handles Springer next year. On paper he is the best player on the roster. James walked into camp, with two senior guards leading the way coming off a very successful year. Springer walks into camp replacing a senior guard, with a bunch of young teammates, looking for an alpha, off a year that has been like 3 different seasons in one.

Fulkerson has proved that he belongs, as has Pons despite being undersized in their current respective positions, but is either vocal enough to be the leader? Vescovi has moxy but often you want your best players to be your leaders, and he won’t be that guy either. James has a mature demeanor but may not want to be the alpha. Springer could very well not be that automatic 5*, one and done type player either, but when the offense is defended, or the clock is running down, you need “that guy” to make a play in any level of basketball. We “think” Springer will be that guy. Will Barnes encourage him to be that guy is a question.

I’m sure next year will present surprises as they always occur. I just hope we run a lot more. We will have the bodies to defend aggressively and play uptempo for 40 minutes or even speed up our halfcourt sets. Fulkerson can outrun any big in the SEC and Pons probably should be more of a matchup problem in the open court, with his athleticism (assuming he improves his handle). You would think Springer, Keon Johnson, Walker, and James would all be suitable for up tempo. Kicking out to Vescovi or Bailey for a perimeter shot on a secondary break seems would be suitable for them too before the defense gets set. I’m not interested in “run and gun”, but we can still push tempo and take good shots in the process.
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Unfortunately I don’t believe that to be the case. Barnes talks about running all the time but by the conference schedule comes around he pulls them back.
 
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#189
#189
Lankykong said:
I meant if he jumped higher so that he looked more explosive then people would accept actually worse stats. Like if you gave him Pons’ vertical and athleticism and took away 3 rebounds per game we would have less of the “not a real 5 star” take.

JJJ is a better overall player than Vescovi imo, but I know most disagree so eh. Vescovi is boom or bust and flashy so a lot of people prefer him, and he creates on offense which is what people look at.
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I don't think we know how good either of them are or will be. JJJ had the advantage of having the entire Fall and AAU ball to hone his skills and learn the system at Tennessee. Viscovie had a week to learn the system, adjust to a new Country, and get into better physical condition. Maybe we can see how both do next year and I believe both will be very good basketball players.
 
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#190
#190
zjcvols said:
I am genuinely shocked that some fans think it is foolish or uninformed to be somewhat disappointed by a 5* freshman guard that is only shooting 37% from the field and has a turnover percentage 4% higher than his assist percentage and can’t get to free throw line 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Or that some think it’s impossible to think JJJ has a disappointing freshman year while also acknowledging he can become a good player and has room to grow.
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In this instance, our respective opinions are not mutually exclusive. My particular argument in this case is not about whether it is fair or unfair to be disappointed in James’ season in a vacuum.

My post was in response to a poster who is disappointed that JJJ isn’t Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman, or Cole Anthony level of talented right out of the gate.

If you watched James play in HS and expected that kind of immediate impact at the high major college level, then you were a fool.

Thus why I say not all 5 stars are created equal, and why I wish that recruiting services would limit that accolade to the top 5-10 guys who are basically “can’t miss” prospects from a talent standpoint. Some of those may wash out from a work ethic/attitude/personal life standpoint. But from a basketball talent perspective, they basically have few, if any holes in their game and could likely have been drafted immediately out of high school, if eligible.

JJJ does not and never has fit that description. He always needed some refinement and seasoning, and to compare/contrast him to the aforementioned players and be disappointed that he isn’t finding the immediate success that they are, is foolish, IMO.
 
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#191
#191
My biggest thing with JJJ is that he just doesn't appear to have the cockiness and swagger you would expect out of a five star. He just comes off as passive, even-kelled. Vescovi on the other hand is the exact opposite. In no way am I saying JJJ isn't a good basketball player. Just wish he had more of an edge to him.
 
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#192
#192
RyanWalkerPGH said:
My biggest thing with JJJ is that he just doesn't appear to have the cockiness and swagger you would expect out of a five star. He just comes off as passive, even-kelled. Vescovi on the other hand is the exact opposite. In no way am I saying JJJ isn't a good basketball player. Just wish he had more of an edge to him.
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If James had Vescovi’s confidence in his ability, he may average 4 more ppg just in drives to the basket. Like SV, James is a little crippled by his right hand, though not quite to the same extent as Vescovi. If both could develop more skill in their off hand, their abilities will grow exponentially. James needs a boost in confidence, and it seems he may be finding it in his outside shot. He needs to watch some Jordan McRae film.
 
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#193
#193
VOLINVONORE said:
I don't think we know how good either of them are or will be. JJJ had the advantage of having the entire Fall and AAU ball to hone his skills and learn the system at Tennessee. Viscovie had a week to learn the system, adjust to a new Country, and get into better physical condition. Maybe we can see how both do next year and I believe both will be very good basketball players.
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Yeah, I agree with this. Both have a ton of potential
 
#194
#194
He sure looked good on the last play, everything went right except it didn't go down.
 
#195
#195
cncchris33 said:
I know I shouldn't be, but I am genuinely shocked that so many people believe every 5* player just seamlessly steps into a starting role and dominates the competition, despite the overwhelming evidence, with this 2019 class in particular, to the contrary. I just don't know how you have a logical debate about that topic without sounding foolish, uninformed, or stubborn to a fault.
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Using reason and facts require critical thinking which is rare on VN unfortunately as most prefer to get up in their feelings (which I understand as we all do that to a degree at times which is why we are called "fans"). However, it is amazing to me how some posters will dig their heels in when confronted with realities that do not match their opinions.
 
#196
#196
I love JJJ. But i agree he hasnt used his physicality while driving to the hoop....he seems tentative.

Might be due to injuries or something else
 
#197
#197
whodeycin85 said:
I love JJJ. But i agree he hasnt used his physicality while driving to the hoop....he seems tentative.

Might be due to injuries or something else
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Part of it seems to be the reality that getting to the rim in college is much different than getting there in high school. He is a little hampered by being left hand dominant, too, so he needs to continue to develop confidence in his off hand.
 
#198
#198
Lankykong said:
I meant if he jumped higher so that he looked more explosive then people would accept actually worse stats. Like if you gave him Pons’ vertical and athleticism and took away 3 rebounds per game we would have less of the “not a real 5 star” take.

JJJ is a better overall player than Vescovi imo, but I know most disagree so eh. Vescovi is boom or bust and flashy so a lot of people prefer him, and he creates on offense which is what people look at.
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Helluva game by the 5 star freshman tonight vs Vandy....couldn’t possibly ask for more, God knows no other freshman 5 star in the country is playing any better than JJJ...

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