Another reported assault

#128
#128
JonGrudensAgent said:
I don't disagree with you in the least.

That being said, this particular story is very weak with unnamed assailants and few credible details.

I also have a hard time believing anything The Tennessean reports on this account after their whitewashing of the Vanderbilt and celebration of James Franklin in handling the matter.


Of all the remarkable things James Franklin did on his three-year watch at Vanderbilt (three bowl games, back-to-back nine-win seasons, etc.), one of his biggest accomplishments was getting his team to stay the course and not get sidetracked in the aftermath of the rape case that led to the arrests of four players in the summer of 2013.

That was from a related story by Climer.
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I don't read the Tennesean enough to know nor care about their various agendas. There's a tilt to all media outlets, I'm sure they are no different.

That being said, if this is total baloney, you'd imagine UT will counter with fury within 24 hours.

Should that happen, I'll feel a lot better about this particular incident. But my frustration on this issue won't stop - there's clearly a problem this program has with sexual assault, this is just the latest reminder.
 
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#132
#132
Lane happened a couple yrs ago. Before Butchs first season.

strange that she only wants the guy kicked out of school but doesn't want him prosecuted. Sounds like she doesn't want him to have justice, just her word she was raped.

If some of these mommas and daddies knew how quick their daughters were sleeping with these guys, they'd be ashamed.
 
#134
#134
Stevorino said:
I don't read the Tennesean enough to know nor care about their various agendas. There's a tilt to all media outlets, I'm sure they are no different.

That being said, if this is total baloney, you'd imagine UT will counter with fury within 24 hours.

Should that happen, I'll feel a lot better about this particular incident. But my frustration on this issue won't stop - there's clearly a problem this program has with sexual assault, this is just the latest reminder.
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I'm with you but I don't see it going away. If Jones is going to preach family and cultural change he needs to lay the hammer down any time one of these situations come up.

It's no solace but it's not just at UT either.

It's a bigger cultural issue that will take more than some programs at colleges to change unfortunately IMO.
 
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#135
#135
Well, Im sure to share this with your parents at 19 was a bit misleading. I AM NOT TAKING EITHER SIDE, but there is always (what she said) and (what he said) then the truth is somewhere in the middle. I cant imagine what or how the conversation with the parents went, regardless if she felt strongly about the situation 911 and a trip to the hospital was missing, to stay I didn't want to go public only questions why (She is in the public now). I feel sorry for all of the kids involved because there will be a shadow on doubt whose fault it really was.
 
#136
#136
JonGrudensAgent said:
I'm with you but I don't see it going away. If Jones is going to preach family and cultural change he needs to lay the hammer down any time one of these situations come up.

It's no solace but it's not just at UT either.

It's a bigger cultural issue that will take more than some programs at colleges to change unfortunately IMO.
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Which he did by suspending the star player before he was even charged. You can't go kicking players off the team anytime they are accused of anything, especially when it wasn't reported to LE and school officials clear the player in their investigation.
 
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#137
#137
jlawso21 said:
Yes, how a rape victim reacts does mattter to "anyone else". I have had enough of people surrounding an alleged rape victim with some kind of blanket immunity from even the simplest of questions about their own actions.

If you are going to accuse another person of rape you better be ready to have the whole sequence of events examined in minute detail, whether it's being investigated by the university, the police, or the press. You don't get to accuse someone of a crime that could land that person in jail for a long time, ruin their future career, and smear their reputation without everything, and I mean everything being examined.

I don't like rape, but I don't like people implying that women should not have scrutiny applied to their actions during an investigation. And by the way, this is not only the fair way to do it, it is rooted in law. Many of the laws that we have that force people to be transparent are the result of people abusing investigative powers in their zealous prosecution of people they perceive as guilty, before any facts have been established.
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Exhibit A for why victims of rape would prefer to not press charges

...in case people still can't understand why a rape victim wouldn't want to go to the police for a year+ investigation/trial prep/trial
 
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#138
#138
BP4Prez said:
Which he did by suspending the star player before he was even charged. You can't go kicking players off the team anytime they are accused of anything, especially when it wasn't reported to LE and school officials clear the player in their investigation.
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Where did I say he hasn't?

Some of you guys just make up stuff in your heads so you can white knight for Jones.
 
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#139
#139
JonGrudensAgent said:
I'm with you but I don't see it going away. If Jones is going to preach family and cultural change he needs to lay the hammer down any time one of these situations come up.

It's no solace but it's not just at UT either.

It's a bigger cultural issue that will take more than some programs at colleges to change unfortunately IMO.
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Oh, I totally agree that it happens nationwide and that it is a bigger cultural issue than just an isolated Tennessee issue.

But I also believe that Tennessee has the capability to lead change at the collegiate level.
 
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#140
#140
BowlBrother85 said:
The Tennessean reporter (Anita Wadhwani) gives considerable scrutiny to the university's handling of this off campus 'incident' and credence to the alleged victim's account of it but seemingly never asked the most obvious question, "If you believe that you were sexually assaulted and you want to see the assailant held accountable for his actions, then why haven't you reported this incident to law enforcement officials?"... The answer to that question doesn't even seem to matter to the reporter (Wadhwani) which makes this article look like it has an agenda of it's own.
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PRAVDA on the Cumberland (AKA the tennessean) always has an agenda. They are pro-Vandy and anti-VOLS. Have been for years. So always expect any story that is published by POTC to show UT in a negative light. Always ignore this rag. They are a farce for those in other parts of the state that are not familiar with them. I am sure there was sex, but what transpired only the 2 of them will ever truly know.

I hate this for the young lady, but I feel we are definitely getting only one, very slanted viewpoint of the event. I daughters so my veiw on this is as the father of 2 now adult women, who graduated from the UT. So this was something I always knew could happen.
 
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#141
#141
crusse10 said:
I said this months ago, but I think that there is rampant sexual assault issues across the landscape of the NCAA. I think that a lot of players get laid in less than 100% consensual ways at an upsettingly frequent clip. A lot of it is attributed to a sense of entitlement because "don't you know who I am?"

As for updating the recruiting profile, there's just no way to pinpoint this kind of behavior. You can't look at a high school kid and say "sometime during college he's gonna get a girl drunk and bang her when she's barely lucid." You just can't know that. You can teach the kids, you can explicitly state what they should do in certain scenarios or what have you. But in the end, if he wants to get it and all it takes is another 3 drinks before she just isn't going to stop him, then that might happen. And it's terrifying.

Don't get me wrong. This is a serious issue in college as a whole. I just believe the percentage of sexual assault crimes/person is far higher in the athlete community than in the student body as a whole.
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While lotta "I believe" and "I think" in your post. Best to have evidence and proof if you're gonna level such serious charges and paint with such a broad brush. Whole lotta dishonest reporting going on in the national media (eg, Rolling Stone and lies about UVA fraternity and ALL national media with Duke lacrosse case). Perhaps they contribute to what you think and believe?
 
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#143
#143
If you took "Tennessee Athletics" away from this and added "Psi Gamma Beta" to it, most of the people in this thread are singing different tunes. It's as simple as that.

Change that and this thread becomes a bashing of the Greek system, how frats are poison to schools and produce nothing but alcohol incidents and rapes of good little girls.
 
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#144
#144
BP4Prez said:
Which he did by suspending the star player before he was even charged. You can't go kicking players off the team anytime they are accused of anything, especially when it wasn't reported to LE and school officials clear the player in their investigation.
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I used to agree with this sentiment, not anymore.

I think Butch has to take the stance that there is zero tolerance of even a 'whiff' (as someone said earlier). If you get reported, you are indefinitely on the sidelines.

Is that fair? I don't know, it would certainly be a higher standard.

But what it would do is put all of the burden on the players to be extremely cognizant of where/how/why/when they party and to make sure all of their bases are covered. I see absolutely no downside to that at all.
 
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#146
#146
crusse10 said:
I said this months ago, but I think that there is rampant sexual assault issues across the landscape of the NCAA. I think that a lot of players get laid in less than 100% consensual ways at an upsettingly frequent clip. A lot of it is attributed to a sense of entitlement because "don't you know who I am?"

As for updating the recruiting profile, there's just no way to pinpoint this kind of behavior. You can't look at a high school kid and say "sometime during college he's gonna get a girl drunk and bang her when she's barely lucid." You just can't know that. You can teach the kids, you can explicitly state what they should do in certain scenarios or what have you. But in the end, if he wants to get it and all it takes is another 3 drinks before she just isn't going to stop him, then that might happen. And it's terrifying.

Don't get me wrong. This is a serious issue in college as a whole. I just believe the percentage of sexual assault crimes/person is far higher in the athlete community than in the student body as a whole.
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Any possible ideas why it is usually the football or basketball players, instead of golf and volleyball???
 
#147
#147
In her own words, she got so drunk she doesn't remember what happened. She doesn't know if she said no. She doesn't know if she jumped his bones. She was so drunk she doesn't even know if she was raped.
In the article it states that she was handed a cup of punch, and then another, like the girl isn't even responsible for her decision to drink the punch. It sounds like she got drunk, had sex, doesn't really remember it, but regrets it.
For once, I wish someone would write an article about why you shouldn't drink heavily in social gatherings. Or living with the regrets of making bad decisions while heavily intoxicated.
I have 2 girls in college. I have told them both not to drink so much they get into situations like this. I have given them first hand accounts from my college days what can happen when they drink too much. I have tried to raise my 3 children to be responsible for their actions.
Women are forcibly raped while drunk. My wife for example was date raped before we met. He tied here hands to a car door with his belt. She remembers the whole thing, because she was buzzing, but wasn't so drunk she doesn't remember what happened. Sober women are forcably raped also. Rape is a terrible crime.
My point is this. In the victims own words she was so drunk even she doesn't know if she was raped. She is accusing a young man of something, but she was too drunk to remember what happened herself.
It's not a crime to have sex with a really drunk girl who lets you. Maybe it should be, but as of right now it's not.
I know I will be flamed for this, but sometimes the cold reality of the truth hurts. And most of the time poor decisions while being heavily intoxicated leave scars.
 
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#148
#148
Stevorino said:
I used to agree with this sentiment, not anymore.

I think Butch has to take the stance that there is zero tolerance of even a 'whiff' (as someone said earlier). If you get reported, you are indefinitely on the sidelines.

Is that fair? I don't know, it would certainly be a higher standard.

But what it would do is put all of the burden on the players to be extremely cognizant of where/how/why/when they party and to make sure all of their bases are covered. I see absolutely no downside to that at all.
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I get what you are saying, and can see it when it goes as far as LE. But when it's not even in the hands of LE how do you make that call? Especially after school officials clear the player to return.
 
#149
#149
1972 Grad said:
Any possible ideas why it is usually the football or basketball players, instead of golf and volleyball???
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Playing golf has no cache. But also let's be real, there are 100-110ish players per school for football and men's basketball. Golf and volleyball (if you even have those mens sports) would be less than 30.
 
#150
#150
Stevorino said:
I used to agree with this sentiment, not anymore.

I think Butch has to take the stance that there is zero tolerance of even a 'whiff' (as someone said earlier). If you get reported, you are indefinitely on the sidelines.

Is that fair? I don't know, it would certainly be a higher standard.

But what it would do is put all of the burden on the players to be extremely cognizant of where/how/why/when they party and to make sure all of their bases are covered. I see absolutely no downside to that at all.
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This is dumb. So you're saying Butch should terminate players for having sex? Or having sex with drunk girls?

Because you have no control over what somebody accuses you of. There have been cases of accused rape, where no sex at all took place.
 
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