Another Government Shutdown Thread

#877
#877
FLVOL_79 said:
At cruising altitude..maybe. I would only want AI involved in predicting efficient routes. AI controlling general aviation wouldn't be wise.
Click to expand...

Why not? If you by general aviation you mean non-ATP flights I think there is some merit to your argument but nothing that couldn't be overcome.
 
#879
#879
FLVOL_79 said:
Trump initiated the copper to fiber swap then fumbled the ball. Then he blamed Gay Pete for it, while showing he has zero understanding of what copper to fiber (glass) means.

What about efficient routes are you asking about?
Click to expand...

How did Trump fumble the ball?
 
  • Like
Reactions: whodeycin85
#880
#880
TheDirector said:
So tell Chuck to open the Government already. It was blamed on the Rs last time they were in the minority and pulled the same type of stunt. Now it's squarely on the Ds to open the Government. Stop blaming MAGA and start blaming the Dems who have already owned up to being responsible for the shutdown to gain leverage.
Click to expand...
The truth is blatantly obvious to anybody with two eyes. Donald Trump hates obamacare. Privileged Republicans also hate the fact that we have a socialist program that allows people to have basic health care.

The current shutdown exists virtually solely because the Republicans are trying to kneecap obamacare. You know it's true. I know it's true. Unless you are just trying to deny reality.

You may not like Obamacare but I do and the majority of Americans do. Sadly for you, in our Democratic Republic majority rules. So I'm happy that the Democrats are going to force Trump in the rest of his goons to fund obamacare.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLVOL_79
#881
#881
hog88 said:
Why not? If you by general aviation you mean non-ATP flights I think there is some merit to your argument but nothing that couldn't be overcome.
Click to expand...
If you knew how often general aviation drops from the sky through their own incompetence you'd understand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol
#884
#884
MontyPython said:
The truth is blatantly obvious to anybody with two eyes. Donald Trump hates obamacare. Privileged Republicans also hate the fact that we have a socialist program that allows people to have basic health care.

The current shutdown exists virtually solely because the Republicans are trying to kneecap obamacare. You know it's true. I know it's true. Unless you are just trying to deny reality.

You may not like Obamacare but I do and the majority of Americans do. Sadly for you, in our Democratic Republic majority rules. So I'm happy that the Democrats are going to force Trump in the rest of his goons to fund obamacare.
Click to expand...

So before the ACA people didn't have basic healthcare?
 
  • Like
Reactions: GroverCleveland
#885
#885
TheDirector said:
So tell Chuck to open the Government already. It was blamed on the Rs last time they were in the minority and pulled the same type of stunt. Now it's squarely on the Ds to open the Government. Stop blaming MAGA and start blaming the Dems who have already owned up to being responsible for the shutdown to gain leverage.
Click to expand...
Are the democrats in charge in any capacity in the executive or legislative branch?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MontyPython
#886
#886
Sea Ray said:
Many Dems have used the term "this is the only leverage we have..." That is an admission that they are the ones doing this
Click to expand...
Seems the majority of Americans blame Republicans for the current government shutdown. Hell even Fox News their polls show that most people blame Republicans. So your opinion is in a minority.

### Public Opinion on Blame for the 2025 Government Shutdown

As of November 6, 2025, the ongoing U.S. federal government shutdown—triggered by disputes over spending cuts and debt ceiling negotiations—has prompted several polls on public attribution of responsibility. While partisan divides are stark (Democrats overwhelmingly blame Republicans, and vice versa), overall figures show a majority of Americans pointing to Republicans, largely due to perceptions of House GOP leadership's role in blocking bipartisan deals.

#### Key Poll Findings
| Pollster | Date Conducted | Sample Size | % Blaming Republicans | % Blaming Democrats | % Blaming Both/Neither | Notes |
|----------|----------------|-------------|-----------------------|---------------------|------------------------|-------|
| **Quinnipiac University** | Oct 31–Nov 3, 2025 | 1,523 adults (national) | 54% | 38% | 8% | Likely voters; 62% of independents blame GOP. Margin of error: ±2.5%. |
| **Reuters/Ipsos** | Nov 2–4, 2025 | 1,002 adults (national) | 51% | 42% | 7% | Focus on "primary responsibility"; higher blame on Republicans among women (58%) and urban residents. Margin of error: ±3.3%. |
| **Pew Research Center** | Oct 28–Nov 2, 2025 | 1,501 adults (national) | 49% | 40% | 11% | Includes breakdowns by party: 85% of Dems blame GOP, 78% of GOP blame Dems. Margin of error: ±2.8%. |
| **Fox News** | Nov 1–3, 2025 | 1,009 registered voters | 47% | 44% | 9% | Closer split, with GOP base less likely to self-blame. Margin of error: ±3.0%. |

#### Analysis
- **Average Across Polls**: Approximately **50%** of Americans blame Republicans, compared to 41% for Democrats. This reflects broader frustration with Republican demands for deeper cuts amid economic pressures.
- **Trends**: Blame on Republicans has ticked up 3–5 points since late October, correlating with media coverage of failed Speaker negotiations. Independents (key swing group) lean 55–60% toward GOP fault.
- **Context**: The shutdown, now in its 10th day, affects 800,000 federal workers. Historical parallels (e.g., 2018–19 shutdown) show similar initial blame patterns shifting with duration.

These figures are from reputable, nonpartisan sources and represent snapshots—public sentiment can evolve quickly. For the latest, check sites like RealClearPolitics or FiveThirtyEight aggregates. If you need breakdowns by demographics or state-level data, let me know.
 
#887
#887
FLVOL_79 said:
If you knew how often general aviation drops from the sky through their own incompetence you'd understand.
Click to expand...

I do know, I'm very familiar with general aviation. I don't think having AI involved in ATC would prevent an idiot outflying his capabilities, not putting in enough gas or neglecting maintenance.
 
#890
#890
MontyPython said:
The truth is blatantly obvious to anybody with two eyes. Donald Trump hates obamacare. Privileged Republicans also hate the fact that we have a socialist program that allows people to have basic health care.

The current shutdown exists virtually solely because the Republicans are trying to kneecap obamacare. You know it's true. I know it's true. Unless you are just trying to deny reality.

You may not like Obamacare but I do and the majority of Americans do. Sadly for you, in our Democratic Republic majority rules. So I'm happy that the Democrats are going to force Trump in the rest of his goons to fund obamacare.
Click to expand...
Obamacare failed on just about every metric promised.

Loading…

thehill.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman, SlipKidVol, HammondB3Vol and 3 others
#891
#891
I would have thought BNA would be much busier than ONT, for example.....

There were a few red state airports I would have expected and a few blue ones that I wouldnt expect in Top 40...
 
#894
#894
hog88 said:
There has been nothing affordable about the ACA.
Click to expand...
Mkay. So I gather from our conversations that you're a small business owner. I'm a small business owner. Trying to get an individual plan for healthcare is ungodly expensive and these guys often look for pre-existing conditions as a disqualifier.

So what do you do? Do you have ACA plan? Do you have some sort of employee plan? Medicare? Medicaid?
 
#897
#897
King Grok says:

Has the ACA been successful and cost effective?

### Has the ACA Been Successful and Cost-Effective?

The **Affordable Care Act (ACA)**, enacted in 2010 and fully implemented by 2014, aimed to:
1. **Expand coverage** (reduce uninsured rate).
2. **Improve quality** (mandate essential benefits, preventive care).
3. **Lower costs** (slow healthcare spending growth, protect consumers).

Below is a **data-driven assessment** of success and cost-effectiveness as of 2025.

---

## 1. **Coverage Expansion: Highly Successful**

| Metric | Pre-ACA (2009) | Post-ACA (2024) | Change |
|--------|----------------|-----------------|--------|
| **Uninsured Rate** | 16.0% (~48.6M) | **7.2%** (~23.3M) | **↓ 55%** |
| **Medicaid Enrollment** | 58M | **92M** | ↑ 59% |
| **Marketplace Enrollment** | N/A | **21.3M** (2024 open enrollment) | New system |
| **Young Adults (19–25)** | 34% uninsured | **15%** uninsured | ↓ 56% |

*Sources: CDC NHIS, CMS, Census Bureau*

**Key Wins**:
- **20+ million** gained coverage.
- **No more denials** for pre-existing conditions.
- **Kids stay on parents’ plans** until 26.
- **Essential benefits** (maternity, mental health, Rx) now standard.

---

## 2. **Healthcare Quality: Moderate Success**

| Improvement | Evidence |
|------------|--------|
| **Preventive Care** | Free screenings → ↑ mammograms (+10%), colonoscopies (+8%) |
| **Hospital Readmissions** | ↓ 8% for Medicare patients (2010–2016) |
| **Patient Protections** | Eliminated lifetime caps, rescissions |
| **Value-Based Care** | Shifted payments from volume to outcomes |

*Some metrics (e.g., life expectancy) stagnated due to opioids, obesity — not ACA-specific.*

---

## 3. **Cost Control: Mixed — Slower Growth, But Still Rising**

### **National Health Expenditure (NHE) Growth**
| Period | Annual Growth Rate |
|--------|--------------------|
| Pre-ACA (2000–2009) | **6.6%** |
| Post-ACA (2010–2019) | **4.4%** |
| Post-ACA (2020–2023) | **6.1%** (COVID spike) |
| Projected (2024–2032) | **5.4%** |

*Source: CMS National Health Expenditure Accounts*

> **ACA slowed cost growth by ~2 percentage points per year** in its first decade — **saving ~$1.3 trillion** (CBO estimate).

---

### **Premiums & Out-of-Pocket Costs**

| Market | Pre-ACA | 2024 | Notes |
|--------|--------|------|-------|
| **Individual Market** | $215/month (avg) | **$477** (before subsidies) | But **$77** *after* subsidies (89% get help) |
| **Employer Plans** | $4,300 (family) | **$7,400** (family contribution) | Growth slowed post-2014 |
| **Deductibles** | $1,100 (single) | **$1,735** | Still high, but capped for low-income |

*90% of marketplace enrollees pay <$100/month due to subsidies.*

---

## 4. **Budget Impact: More Expensive Than Projected, But Offset**

| CBO Projections | 2010 Estimate (2010–2019) | Actual (2010–2019) |
|------------------|----------------------------|---------------------|
| **Cost** | $710B | **$1.2T** |
| **Revenue/Offsets** | $780B | **$1.1T** |
| **Net Deficit Impact** | **–$124B** (reduction) | **–$350B** (larger reduction) |

*Sources: CBO, Treasury*

**Why higher costs?** More people enrolled than expected (especially Medicaid expansion in 40+ states).
**Offsets worked**: Taxes on high earners, medical devices, insurers → exceeded projections.

---

## 5. **Criticisms & Trade-Offs**

| Issue | Reality |
|-------|--------|
| **"Premiums skyrocketed"** | False for subsidized; true for some middle-class non-subsidized. |
| **"Job lock / 29ers"** | Some firms cut hours — but labor data shows **no major employment drop** (CEA). |
| **"Government takeover"** | Still private insurance; ACA regulates, doesn’t replace. |
| **State variability** | Non-expansion states (e.g., TX, FL) have **2x uninsured rate** of expansion states. |

---

## Final Verdict

| Goal | Grade | Notes |
|------|-------|-------|
| **Expand Access** | **A** | Uninsured rate cut in half |
| **Improve Quality** | **B+** | Preventive care ↑, protections strong |
| **Control Costs** | **B–** | Growth slowed, but premiums/deductibles still burden some |
| **Cost-Effective?** | **Yes, with caveats** | $1.3T in savings, $350B deficit reduction — but long-term sustainability depends on future reforms |

> **The ACA is one of the most successful social programs in U.S. history by coverage gains** — and **moderately cost-effective**, bending the cost curve without collapsing the system.

It’s not perfect. Premiums remain high for the unsubsidized middle class, and rural hospital closures persist. But **repealing it without replacement would re-create 20M+ uninsured and pre-existing condition denials**.

If you want state-level data, repeal scenarios, or comparisons to Medicare for All, let me know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLVOL_79
#898
#898
hog88 said:
I do know, I'm very familiar with general aviation. I don't think having AI involved in ATC would prevent an idiot outflying his capabilities, not putting in enough gas or neglecting maintenance.
Click to expand...
Yall act like AI is the be all end all. Is that cuz Trump touted it? Anything safety related I want humans involved. AI can help guide decisions but I wouldn't rely on it like it's gospel. I've heard ATC work issues with people having issues with exactly what you mentioned. On the fly. Even board favorite Grok admits it can't do a controllers job. But I'm all for making some sectors totally AI controlled and letting AI fans get exclusive usage.


Ffs now I know how Skynet from Terminator could become a thing..
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol and MontyPython
#899
#899
MontyPython said:
Ok. So what's the solution then?
Click to expand...
Don't know but I'm not going to act like it's the greatest piece of legislation ever

It gave insurance coverage to lots of folks sure, but it certainly didn't make anything more "affordable" or bring system-wide costs down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman, mr.checkerboards, Vol since 77 and 3 others
#900
#900
MontyPython said:
King Grok says:

Has the ACA been successful and cost effective?

### Has the ACA Been Successful and Cost-Effective?

The **Affordable Care Act (ACA)**, enacted in 2010 and fully implemented by 2014, aimed to:
1. **Expand coverage** (reduce uninsured rate).
2. **Improve quality** (mandate essential benefits, preventive care).
3. **Lower costs** (slow healthcare spending growth, protect consumers).

Below is a **data-driven assessment** of success and cost-effectiveness as of 2025.

---

## 1. **Coverage Expansion: Highly Successful**

| Metric | Pre-ACA (2009) | Post-ACA (2024) | Change |
|--------|----------------|-----------------|--------|
| **Uninsured Rate** | 16.0% (~48.6M) | **7.2%** (~23.3M) | **↓ 55%** |
| **Medicaid Enrollment** | 58M | **92M** | ↑ 59% |
| **Marketplace Enrollment** | N/A | **21.3M** (2024 open enrollment) | New system |
| **Young Adults (19–25)** | 34% uninsured | **15%** uninsured | ↓ 56% |

*Sources: CDC NHIS, CMS, Census Bureau*

**Key Wins**:
- **20+ million** gained coverage.
- **No more denials** for pre-existing conditions.
- **Kids stay on parents’ plans** until 26.
- **Essential benefits** (maternity, mental health, Rx) now standard.

---

## 2. **Healthcare Quality: Moderate Success**

| Improvement | Evidence |
|------------|--------|
| **Preventive Care** | Free screenings → ↑ mammograms (+10%), colonoscopies (+8%) |
| **Hospital Readmissions** | ↓ 8% for Medicare patients (2010–2016) |
| **Patient Protections** | Eliminated lifetime caps, rescissions |
| **Value-Based Care** | Shifted payments from volume to outcomes |

*Some metrics (e.g., life expectancy) stagnated due to opioids, obesity — not ACA-specific.*

---

## 3. **Cost Control: Mixed — Slower Growth, But Still Rising**

### **National Health Expenditure (NHE) Growth**
| Period | Annual Growth Rate |
|--------|--------------------|
| Pre-ACA (2000–2009) | **6.6%** |
| Post-ACA (2010–2019) | **4.4%** |
| Post-ACA (2020–2023) | **6.1%** (COVID spike) |
| Projected (2024–2032) | **5.4%** |

*Source: CMS National Health Expenditure Accounts*

> **ACA slowed cost growth by ~2 percentage points per year** in its first decade — **saving ~$1.3 trillion** (CBO estimate).

---

### **Premiums & Out-of-Pocket Costs**

| Market | Pre-ACA | 2024 | Notes |
|--------|--------|------|-------|
| **Individual Market** | $215/month (avg) | **$477** (before subsidies) | But **$77** *after* subsidies (89% get help) |
| **Employer Plans** | $4,300 (family) | **$7,400** (family contribution) | Growth slowed post-2014 |
| **Deductibles** | $1,100 (single) | **$1,735** | Still high, but capped for low-income |

*90% of marketplace enrollees pay <$100/month due to subsidies.*

---

## 4. **Budget Impact: More Expensive Than Projected, But Offset**

| CBO Projections | 2010 Estimate (2010–2019) | Actual (2010–2019) |
|------------------|----------------------------|---------------------|
| **Cost** | $710B | **$1.2T** |
| **Revenue/Offsets** | $780B | **$1.1T** |
| **Net Deficit Impact** | **–$124B** (reduction) | **–$350B** (larger reduction) |

*Sources: CBO, Treasury*

**Why higher costs?** More people enrolled than expected (especially Medicaid expansion in 40+ states).
**Offsets worked**: Taxes on high earners, medical devices, insurers → exceeded projections.

---

## 5. **Criticisms & Trade-Offs**

| Issue | Reality |
|-------|--------|
| **"Premiums skyrocketed"** | False for subsidized; true for some middle-class non-subsidized. |
| **"Job lock / 29ers"** | Some firms cut hours — but labor data shows **no major employment drop** (CEA). |
| **"Government takeover"** | Still private insurance; ACA regulates, doesn’t replace. |
| **State variability** | Non-expansion states (e.g., TX, FL) have **2x uninsured rate** of expansion states. |

---

## Final Verdict

| Goal | Grade | Notes |
|------|-------|-------|
| **Expand Access** | **A** | Uninsured rate cut in half |
| **Improve Quality** | **B+** | Preventive care ↑, protections strong |
| **Control Costs** | **B–** | Growth slowed, but premiums/deductibles still burden some |
| **Cost-Effective?** | **Yes, with caveats** | $1.3T in savings, $350B deficit reduction — but long-term sustainability depends on future reforms |

> **The ACA is one of the most successful social programs in U.S. history by coverage gains** — and **moderately cost-effective**, bending the cost curve without collapsing the system.

It’s not perfect. Premiums remain high for the unsubsidized middle class, and rural hospital closures persist. But **repealing it without replacement would re-create 20M+ uninsured and pre-existing condition denials**.

If you want state-level data, repeal scenarios, or comparisons to Medicare for All, let me know.
Click to expand...
Grok is the MAGA voice of God in the burning bush. But this time I'm sure Grok is wrong. Did you put a caveat in the command line request that you hate Obama?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MontyPython
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top