AJ Johnson/Michael Williams Case (merged)

I think it's just as bad by most to assume guilty.....I hope they didn't do it but if they did then I hope they get the harshest penalty possible.....that being said a grand jury indictment is not even close to a guilty verdict

Thank you. I personally can't show you one poster that has said they are innocent and that they should walk. Most have said they hope they didn't do it because yes, they are Vols and AJ was the heart of the team. After all, this is VN. There are others here however, who already have them convicted. One has to wonder what kind of lives these people lead. I personally hope that they are exonerated. But, if they aren't, then they should pay dearly.
 
If that was your daughter, I bet you would feel differently.

I don't know what I would think since I didn't raise a daughter. I can imagine that it would be bad though. Point being, I have no frame of reference.
 
I hope the truth comes out either way. I just remember most of VN condemning people for mentioning AJ in the case, but would follow it with, "it's probably all Williams' fault!"

Really, I read all of the "other thread" and I am calling BS. I didn't see what you are taking about.

Edit: one poster has shown up here that wasn't in the other thread.
 
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If he didn't play for U.T., what would you think? If he was just another 22 year old who lived at Island Home, Jefferson, Five Points, Lonsdale , etc. and you had never heard his name, what would you think?

I would think it strange we were discussing it in the FB forum on VN.
 
We still won't know anything until after the trial(s) are finished and the verdict is finally in.

At this point they are still NOT guilty but are awaiting trial(s) for all evidence and arguments to be revealed and argued and a verdict to be released.

All we can do now is wait and see and it will probably be a long wait.

May God bless and comfort all the people involved in this horrid situation.

#RiseToTheTop...VFL...GBO!!!
 
I will be glad when this is no longer a topic on the board. It is a tragedy however it turns out.
 
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Do understand the purpose of the Grand Jury?

The function and purpose of a Grand Jury is NOT to determine if one is innocent or guilty, but rather to establish probable cause that a crime has been committed and who committed it.

I think you're being obtuse on purpose.

Probable cause is not a high standard especially when the government can present it's case with no opposition. That is why the old adage of being able to indict an inanimate object is both scary and true.
 
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I think you're being obtuse on purpose.

Probable cause is not a high standard especially when the government can present it's case with no opposition. That is why the old adage of being able to indict an inanimate object is both scary and true.


You think that I am being obtuse on purpose? I regret that you feel that way. However, it is apparent to me that you are a bit confused on the function and purpose of a Grand Jury and what determines probable cause. I am not debating the fairness of a Grand Jury, but rather describing it's purpose in our justice system.

Here is my understanding of probable cause after over 20 years of experience in law enforcement at the local, state and federal levels.

Probable Cause is when a reasonable person that is presented with the facts and circumstances regarding the alleged crime would conclude that it's more probable than not that a crime has been committed by the accused.

It is a strict legal standard that must be met before any arrest, search or seizure can occur. This is a requirement based upon the U.S. Constitution so all levels of law enforcement must adhere to this standard.

For the Grand Jury to indict they must conclude that probable causes exist that a crime was committed and who committed it. The Grand Jury is made up of common citizens who are considered to be reasonable. It does not consist of attorneys, prosecutors, or LEO's or Judges. There is a foreman who is appointed to lead them.

A law enforcement officer (LEO) can arrest someone without a warrant based solely upon probable cause. This is called a warrantless arrest and there is nothing a defense attorney can do to prevent this from happening, it's a fundamental concept of our justice system.

The arrest just like any Grand Jury indictment does NOT determine guilt, but rather that based on the facts and circumstances it is more probable than not that a crime has been committed by the person who was arrested.

However, most prosecutors prefer that a LEO not make a warrantless arrest and procede cautiously especially in high profile cases. Therefore, the prosecutor takes the case to a Grand Jury where it's the prosecutor's responsibility to present the facts and circumstances to the Grand Jury including any exculpatory evidence that may serve to exhonorate the defendant.

It is not intended to be a confrontational hearing but simply a fact finding event to determine probable cause. If the allegations are confirmed by the Grand Jury then the Forman returns a true bill for the indictment. Once the defendant is indicted for the crime an arrest warrant is issued and the defendant goes to jail where he is usually given a bond, and is released from jail while he awaits trial because he is still presumed to be innocent until guilt is proven or accepted by pleading guilty.

At this point, in the process the defendant is appointed or hires legal counsel if he doesn't already have one to prepare a defense. The vast majority of all defendants usually realize that thier best option is to eventually plea to something, and they usually do. However, some maintain thier innocence and go to trial.

As for your comments regarding the ability of a prosecutor to indict anything, in my experience, the Grand Jury is simply a formality because at this point the prosecution has enough evidence that in his opinion he can prove the case beyond any reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty and is willing to go to trial. So with that in mind the Grand Jury IS viewed by many to be just a rubber stamp because there is an abundance of evidence to determine probable cause.

I hope this helps.
 
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Drae Bowles, Drae Bowles father and D'Andre Payne on the states witness list. I think it's fair to say this is another reason why both players transferred and got out of dodge!
 
Drae Bowles, Drae Bowles father and D'Andre Payne on the states witness list. I think it's fair to say this is another reason why both players transferred and got out of dodge!

That's a good point. But, I'm not sure what the players father would and to the investigation.
 
Drae Bowles, Drae Bowles father and D'Andre Payne on the states witness list. I think it's fair to say this is another reason why both players transferred and got out of dodge!

Bowles had been planning to transfer since before the season even started.
 
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Why is it that these sexual assaults are almost always football and basketball players? Why don't we hear about all the rapes committed by the golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, and rowing team members?

Maybe the parents of kids playing golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, or rowing have the money to keep this stuff quiet?
 
Why is it that these sexual assaults are almost always football and basketball players? Why don't we hear about all the rapes committed by the golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, and rowing team members?

I don't think I've ever seen a televised game of any of those college sports. Basketball and football players are in the media to begin with, so I guess it's more of a story.

I just want to know why she didn't file a police report? She seems pretty upset about the way the school is handling it. If she was so upset, she really should have gone to the police.

Also curious why Butch has not kicked this person off the team. We saw how he handled it with AJ and Michael.
 
Maybe the parents of kids playing golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, or rowing have the money to keep this stuff quiet?
After making a double bogey, the golfers can take out their frustrations in the 19th hole, instead of just any hole.
 
well not talking basketball at all but the football team is made up of much larger numbers, we also are well aware of where a good majority of these players come from in both of those sports...you mention these other sports (tennis, golf, etc) where a majority of those kids come from a much higher socio-economic level and you get your answer... crime rates are always the highest in lower socio-economic brackets...that being said, each kid is their own person and capable of making right or wrong choices regardless of background...but statistics are statistics and are proven for a reason
 
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Why is it that these sexual assaults are almost always football and basketball players? Why don't we hear about all the rapes committed by the golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, and rowing team members?

I know this isn't PC but the reality of the situation is that most crime occurs in the hood and that's where the majority of the football and basketball players are raised. What's the saying you can take the boy out of the hood but you can't take the hood out of the boy!
 
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Maybe the parents of kids playing golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, or rowing have the money to keep this stuff quiet?

Yeah, there are a bunch of golfers assaulting women on campus and the parents are paying the girls to keep it quiet.
 
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I know this isn't PC but the reality of the situation is that most crime occurs in the hood and that's where the majority of the football and basketball players are raised. What's the saying you can take the boy out of the hood but you can't take the hood out of the boy!
Why can't others admit that this is the problem?
 
Why can't others admit that this is the problem?


Because it's not a poplar view, and some may even think it to be racist, it definitely doesn't fit thier world view that the main stream media crams down everyone's throat. But, I can certainly tell you as I have worked in law enforcement the last 20 years, my belief is certainly is based on merit.
 
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Because it's not a poplar view, and some may even think it to be racist, it definitely doesn't fit thier world view that the main stream media crams down everyone's throat. But, I can certainly tell you as I have worked in law enforcement the last 20 years, my belief is certainly is based on merit.
Problems never get solved until you get to the root cause. Denial doesn't help matters.
 
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