5* recruiting (debunked)

[Bash]

You're not allowed to say that to him because its severely damaging to his case!

ESPN, Scout and 24/7 had Smith as a 5 star. If you have evidence that Rivals dropped him as a resulr of signing with Tn please provide it. Otherwise you and the rest of the whining, everybody hates us, inferiority complex crowd are once again showing your immaturity.

 

[Bash]

If we are wrong in our opinions you gotta ask yourself why any kid would ever lose a star to begin with. Are you telling me that they "evaluated" a kid and assigned a 4/5* rating on his talent, then months later "evaluate" him again only to find that he doesn't have the talent he once did? Give me a break. The evidence is all over. No need for specifics.

You havent provided evidence to support your conjecture. 3 orher rankings had him as a 5 star. You sound like the typical Appalachian everybody hates us inferiority complex whineyass that continues to bring our program down. Evidence please.

 

[1vol8]

ESPN, Scout and 24/7 had Smith as a 5 star. If you have evidence that Rivals dropped him as a resulr of signing with Tn please provide it. Otherwise you and the rest of the whining, everybody hates us, inferiority complex crowd are once again showing your immaturity.

You either didn't read my response to you on this subject or you dodged it like you did earlier today to kick things off. Typical of a lot of guys that can't admit someone else may have a point against your opinion.

 

[1vol8]

You havent provided evidence to support your conjecture. 3 orher rankings had him as a 5 star. You sound like the typical Appalachian everybody hates us inferiority complex whineyass that continues to bring our program down. Evidence please.

PAY ATTENTION! Im not the one that posted anything about anyone specifically. My statement was overall and you can look at any of the recruiting sites at any time to see your evidence you so desperately need.

 

[butchna]

ESPN, Scout and 24/7 had Smith as a 5 star. If you have evidence that Rivals dropped him as a resulr of signing with Tn please provide it. Otherwise you and the rest of the whining, everybody hates us, inferiority complex crowd are once again showing your immaturity.

You obviously have “evidence” otherwise...out with it Rivals pawn!

 

[Bash]

You either didn't read my response to you on this subject or you dodged it like you did earlier today to kick things off. Typical of a lot of guys that can't admit someone else may have a point against your opinion.

You made a point? Recap: ratings matter. Top 10 classes and % of 4 and 5 stars matter. It's a strong correlation for NCs, not a rule. And it is supported by the facts, which others posted and which you and those feeler perceivers like you complety ignored in favor of your lameass opinions.You and others state your opinions as facts and when asked for evidence you fail to provide it, falling back on the very tired everybody hates us Appalachian whine. I've responded to everything you've said that resembled a rational thought. Which is almost nothing. End of recap. If you have evidence of your accusations against Rivals please present it. Inferiority conplex childishness is not evidence.

 

[butchna]

You made a point? Recap: ratings matter. Top 10 classes and % of 4 and 5 stars matter. It's a strong correlation for NCs, not a rule. And it is supported by the facts, which others posted and which you and those feeler perceivers like you complety ignored in favor of your lameass opinions.You and others state your opinions as facts and when asked for evidence you fail to provide it, falling back on the very tired everybody hates us Appalachian whine. I've responded to everything you've said that resembled a rational thought. Which is almost nothing. End of recap. If you have evidence of your accusations against Rivals please present it. Inferiority conplex childishness is not evidence.

What’s a conplex? Some kind of halfway house? And being a recruiting service sheep isn’t “evidence” on your part. Season’s over, no new games to evidence and Rivals drops Trey after his decision. Baaaaaaa!

 

[1vol8]

You made a point? Recap: ratings matter. Top 10 classes and % of 4 and 5 stars matter. It's a strong correlation for NCs, not a rule. And it is supported by the facts, which others posted and which you and those feeler perceivers like you complety ignored in favor of your lameass opinions.You and others state your opinions as facts and when asked for evidence you fail to provide it, falling back on the very tired everybody hates us Appalachian whine. I've responded to everything you've said that resembled a rational thought. Which is almost nothing. End of recap. If you have evidence of your accusations against Rivals please present it. Inferiority conplex childishness is not evidence.

Once again. The evidence is presented every time you log on to any of the recruiting services rankings. All it takes is 1 player to lose a star and that alone speaks for itself. A player can't be a a 4 or 5* talent one month and 3 or 4 the next if these recruiting services are actually evaluating TALENT rather than who is recruiting them or the hs teams they play for. If that's not a point then the best thing you can do is hit the back button on your phone because you're simply closed minded.

 

[bamawriter]

A player can't be a a 4 or 5* talent one month and 3 or 4 the next if these recruiting services are actually evaluating TALENT

That's a rather specious argument. Can there never be a situation where a scout thinks "that kid might not as good as I first thought,"?

 

[1vol8]

That's a rather specious argument. Can there never be a situation where a scout thinks "that kid might not as good as I first thought,"?

As often as it happens? Idk. Im sure it could from time to time but this is a regular occurrence with multiple energy yr

 

[bamawriter]

As often as it happens? Idk. Im sure it could from time to time but this is a regular occurrence with multiple energy yr

To whom are you referring? I've seen reference to Trey Smith on Rivals, but I can't actually find anything on Rivals that shows that he dropped from 5 to 4. It doesn't appear that he ever got into the overall top 35, which is where the 5 star list would have cut off. Am I simply not seeing it?

 

[1vol8]

To whom are you referring? I've seen reference to Trey Smith on Rivals, but I can't actually find anything on Rivals that shows that he dropped from 5 to 4. It doesn't appear that he ever got into the overall top 35, which is where the 5 star list would have cut off. Am I simply not seeing it?

I didn't refer to anyone in specific. I think that was butchna referring to Trey. Idk if that's a fact or not but I've learned hes a pretty knowledgeable guy so I didn't question it.
My response was more of an "overall". Again no one specific but it happens a lot every yr as we all well know.

To add to my response to your previous comment though about it being possible that the evaluators may see something they didn't before and lower his rank.
After thinking about it a little more I think that would be more acceptable if it didn't continue to happen all the way to the point that the crystal balls are coming out. He has offers at that point, predictions are coming out and has been "evaluated" for over a yr. There's not many situations that I can think of that could excuse something being "overlooked" after that long.

 

[bamawriter]

I didn't refer to anyone in specific. I think that was butchna referring to Trey. Idk if that's a fact or not but I've learned hes a pretty knowledgeable guy so I didn't question it.
My response was more of an "overall". Again no one specific but it happens a lot every yr as we all well know.

No offense, but "as we all know" is a cop out. If you can't think of a specific example, and I can't think of a specific example, then "we" don't actually know anything.

To add to my response to your previous comment though about it being possible that the evaluators may see something they didn't before and lower his rank.
After thinking about it a little more I think that would be more acceptable if it didn't continue to happen all the way to the point that the crystal balls are coming out. He has offers at that point, predictions are coming out and has been "evaluated" for over a yr. There's not many situations that I can think of that could excuse something being "overlooked" after that long.

I would agree that being overlooked for that long seems like a stretch. But there is a difference between overlooking and reevaluating.

 

[1vol8]

No offense, but "as we all know" is a cop out. If you can't think of a specific example, and I can't think of a specific example, then "we" don't actually know anything.

How is it a cop out? Do we all know that it happens every yr to multiple different players? I think you can admit that no matter what side you take in this debate.

I would agree that being overlooked for that long seems like a stretch. But there is a difference between overlooking and reevaluating.

I agree that there's a difference. But if during the reevaluation (a yr and a half later) they see something they didn't see before wouldn't that be the very definition of "overlooked"?

 

[bamawriter]

How is it a cop out? Do we all know that it happens every yr to multiple different players?

I'm not the one claiming to know that it happens or not.

I agree that there's a difference. But if during the reevaluation (a yr and a half later) they see something they didn't see before wouldn't that be the very definition of "overlooked"?

Perhaps. But it could also be a situation where the scout was watching tape of average, everyday games and thought a guy looked great. And then, during a game in his senior year, the prospect goes up against another elite caliber dude and get his butt handed to him. Again, I'm not some talent expert, but that would make me think twice.

 

[MurphyVol]

Yes yes we all know that many 3* guys make the NFL year after year. Some even become stars.

i don’t get caught up in rankings because TN has gotten their fair share of 4-5* players over the years who rarely or barely pan out. Been burned too many times for me to get excited anymore. Especially over 5* guys.

But if you want to compete for SEC and National Titles the class as a whole better be inside the top 10 four out of five years. Consecutive classes is the lower teens and you will fall behind quick.

Exactly. Nobody thinks that the ONLY way to win is 5 stars, but they sure do help.

If recruiting doesn't matter why doesn't Vandy compete for the SEC?

Yes, coaching does matter and you can develop lower ranked players but nobody can make me believe Saban could win at his historical level with a roster of 3 star players.

Nobody and I mean nobody is a good enough coach to consistently beat other teams with superior talent.

 

[1vol8]

I'm not the one claiming to know that it happens or not.



Perhaps. But it could also be a situation where the scout was watching tape of average, everyday games and thought a guy looked great. And then, during a game in his senior year, the prospect goes up against another elite caliber dude and get his butt handed to him. Again, I'm not some talent expert, but that would make me think twice.

I see your point but that would require them to watch full game tape and not just highlights which is probably the one thing they take the least amount of stock in. The school you play for has more to do with their individual evaluations than the highlights or even the stats. That one I can prove

 

[UTwick]

Yes, and my grandmother smoked for 70 years and lived to 90. Wtf. Snyder never won an NC either. The data are clear: theres a strong correlation between Top 10 recruiting classes and NCs, and an even stronger correlation between having 50% of your class be 4 and 5 stars and NCs.

Lots of good coaches never won a natty, sport. Hope your granny rolled the windows down for you when driving.

 

[Rooster1]

Actually, I couldn’t care less about their NFL potential. But the fact remains, if you take the top 10 ranked teams at the end of any year and look at their recruiting success according to recruiting class rankings, there’s a STRONG CORRELATION. It’s a fact that can’t be disputed.

In all of these inevitable annual discussions about the star rating systems, people make good points on either side of the argument. But most of that is just white noise to be honest, as the final revealer of truth each year is which schools finish in the top 3-4 nationally. Yep, its the schools which recruit the most 4-5 star talent annually. End of story.

 

[1vol8]

In all of these inevitable annual discussions about the star rating systems, people make good points on either side of the argument. But most of that is just white noise to be honest, as the final revealer of truth each year is which schools finish in the top 3-4 nationally. Yep, its the schools which recruit the most 4-5 star talent annually. End of story.

I disagree. Look at the team's that finish in the top 3-4, hell.... even top 10 every year and you'll find a good/ great coach along with an established culture of the program. I feel like that holds more weight than what the recruiting services said about a player they signed with a 30% chance they are correct about said player/players.

 

[bamawriter]

I disagree. Look at the team's that finish in the top 3-4, hell.... even top 10 every year and you'll find a good/ great coach along with an established culture of the program. I feel like that holds more weight than what the recruiting services said about a player they signed with a 30% chance they are correct about said player/players.

I read the 4 year old article you're citing. It's a more than a little vague as to how "success" is measured.

As for this:

Look at the team's that finish in the top 3-4, hell.... even top 10 every year and you'll find a good/ great coach

That's because to be a truly great college football coach, you must be a great recruiter. Recruiting is the single most important part of the job.

 

[TDawg]

If you're quoting me I'm not behind at all. My argument is referring to NFL talent. Yours is referring to current college talent. You're right, we're just arguing different points.

Although for the sake of conversation I have my money on the roster I posted (as college players) over Alabama and Clemson 9 out of 10 times.

While the roster you posted above may be a group of studs, you're only painting part of the picture. Bama can roll out subs in their DL that are day 1 starters on many teams and will at some point start at Bama as well. But it's 4/5*s backed up by 4/5*s at positions all over the field. So if the above is the best of your roster, no, I will take Bama to beat them every freaking time because depth is critical. If you have talent all over the field but outside of your starters, you are rolling out a bunch of kids that you "stole" from Old Dominion, McNeese St and Liberty, I don't like your chances.

 

[1vol8]

While the roster you posted above may be a group of studs, you're only painting part of the picture. Bama can roll out subs in their DL that are day 1 starters on many teams and will at some point start at Bama as well. But it's 4/5*s backed up by 4/5*s at positions all over the field. So if the above is the best of your roster, no, I will take Bama to beat them every freaking time because depth is critical. If you have talent all over the field but outside of your starters, you are rolling out a bunch of kids that you "stole" from Old Dominion, McNeese St and Liberty, I don't like your chances.

That was just the probowl last season. If you'd like I can actually dig all the way through the NFL and take 2/3* players only, Hypothetically put them all on one roster and Bama nor the Patriots would stand a snowball's chance in hell.

 

[1vol8]

While the roster you posted above may be a group of studs, you're only painting part of the picture. Bama can roll out subs in their DL that are day 1 starters on many teams and will at some point start at Bama as well. But it's 4/5*s backed up by 4/5*s at positions all over the field. So if the above is the best of your roster, no, I will take Bama to beat them every freaking time because depth is critical. If you have talent all over the field but outside of your starters, you are rolling out a bunch of kids that you "stole" from Old Dominion, McNeese St and Liberty, I don't like your chances.

37 pro bowlers from last yr were 3* or worse. Im already over half way to a full roster. Still like your chances over mine?

 

[MWAVolfan]

Hey, just ignore the 4 and 5 star talent that pours out of Bama, Clemson and OSU every year into the NFL and talk about the 1:10,000 chance that a 2 oe 3 star player actually turns into an all-american in college. I could care less how they play in the pros. I only care about how good they are while at UT.

These arguments over stars are dumb. they are 5 star for a reason. Get as many as you can and worry about everything else later.