2017 College Football Hot Seats

[BeecherVol]

How in the world by me saying Vandy beating us proving that anything can happen did you come up with the response that the east had already been decided?

Are you trying not to understand?

Vandy beating us is an example that a bad team can still beat a better team on any given day.

So when a season starts, typically there are only 4-5 games that are a legit toss ups that if we play good and they play good we can win the other 7-8 games we have to have a bad game while they have their best game for us to lose. Any given year that can happen. Sure it's not every year that we cycle up to a true contender, but as we build the program back up our down years should be 9-3, not worried can we make a bowl.

Florida, Ga and bama will always be there as a toss up that we need to have a good game or a loss will happen( I don't expect to beat them while having a bad game, I do expect us to play well and win). With those three even a good team having a good game can still lose because they typically have good teams too. Throw in our other west opponent and our usual P5 OOC game, then you can add 2 more games as a toss up. So that is a potential of 5 games a year that if we sleep walk we can expect to loose or if we just stink it up we can expect to lose. At the same time if we play a solid game limiting our mistakes we have just as good of chance to win whether they have a good game or a bad game.

Teams don't sleep walk against Tn, it means too much to them to beat us, often times the Vols play like they are entitled to the win and have no sense of urgency, making a gimme game close and at times(Vandy) costing us the win.

If you want to bring up the Dooley days to back your side, well you got me. With our worst coach in the worst stretch those year were doomed. I will say had Dooley left the defense alone his last year and the defense had a repeat performance from the 2011 season in 2012 would have been much better. Score 48 vs Ga and lose, nobody predicted that.

So by throwing in the Dooley days I will agree with you, "almost" any year can be "the year", and not any year.

Better?

Just thought it interesting that you picked Vandy when the east had already gone to UF in a conversation about "the year".

Vandy just dumped concrete on the casket.

On a side note, Dooley gets brought up here too much as it is. No reason to dig that body up again.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Just thought it interesting that you picked Vandy when the east had already gone to UF in a conversation about "the year".

Vandy just dumped concrete on the casket.

On a side note, Dooley gets brought up here too much as it is. No reason to dig that body up again.

That's fair about DD.

What I meant by "The Year" is in reference to this being " The Year" we win it all, not so much this year.

Yes we blew 2016 back in Tx, the 1st of 3 blown games in 2016.

 

[volfan102455]

Some... are clinging to the delusion that he might still be a good coach.

And some ... are clinging ... like they have been since the day that he was hired ... to the delusion that he can't get it done here.

And some ... are clinging .. like they have been since Dooley was fired ... to the delusion that Gruden (or some coach who is never going to coach here) ... is going to come in on a white horse and save the day.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Why didnt LSU grab him then - why did LSU take a retread instead of a home run hire ?

LSU was aiming much higher with Herman and Fisher. Think they panicked and fell to their 3rd in house option with Ogre.

LSU isn't UT but nice deflection though.

Never acknowledge someone just might do as good or better job than Jones. That's coaching apologist 101 and you did it well.

 

[volfan102455]

Throw in a fumble, a missed FG, and scoring 3 points in the second half and you have it covered. It was a concerted effort.

The problem is that the defense was playing so badly it was going to require the offense to OUTSCORE Vandy. The number of points scored in the first half should have been enough.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Got those off-season glasses on a bit early don't you? Forgot the part where we had a nearly 100% healthy team, and we still struggled against App State and Ohio? Or the fact that the only reason we weren't 6-6 is two lucky plays in the end zone fumble recovery from Hurd and Jennings getting a 1/10 jump ball on the hail Mary?

Butch didn't have this team prepared to play any game this season, from start to finish. It will not surprise me one bit if they come out and aren't prepared against Nebraska as well.

It's not glasses, it's called common sense. We were 2 plays away from 10-2 last year but went 8-4, this year it went the other way, and we still went 8-4.

Maybe you could try answering my question...who would you have hired? Who would've come here with no boss or chancellor and having fired a coach who had just beaten Florida, UGA 2 times in a row, and a good Virginia Tech team in front of the largest crowd in football history? Some of you all are so damn reactionary, it's ridiculous.

 

[volfan102455]

LSU was aiming much higher with Herman and Fisher. Think they panicked and fell to their 3rd in house option with Ogre.

LSU isn't UT but nice deflection though.

Never acknowledge someone just might do as good or better job than Jones. That's coaching apologist 101 and you did it well.

Both Fisher and Herman used LSU. They had no intention to come to the SEC and face Saban every year.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

CBJ talked about Dobbs recruiting process and how they were looking for a QB for the future when they got him. Between QD and JG we are covered for a while. This class seems to be shaping up for the star gazers, the real question is how will we look on the line both sides of the ball. Seems the Oline will have another year to improve, as for the Dline I'm getting a good vibe from those that have committed, once we finish strong on the defensive side Shoop will get us back on track.

2017 will be another year of legitimate high expectations. It's nice to be able to say 8 wins is not enough and it not be a delusional type of thought.

Team 121 will put the pieces together and come out and shock the world. We are coming for ya bama, don't rest yet, we want your best when we take you to the wood shed.

Beat Nebraska!

I am not going to count out the loser of the QB battle in the Spring pulling up anchor and heading out. That's why they took the kid from Memphis last week IMO.

I haven't seen much out of Mahoney's group in terms of development in 4 years now so I don't expect them to take an exponential step forward. Dobbs and the RB's made that group look a lot better than they actually performed this season.

Defensively, I don't think you can ever count on first year players being ready for the physical nature of the SEC, especially at tackle.

I think 8-9 wins should be the expectation at this point but won't be surprised to see them slip to 5-7 wins behind a green QB and suspect play on the line of scrimmage again.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Both Fisher and Herman used LSU. They had no intention to come to the SEC and face Saban every year.

Probably not but that is entirely beside the point.

The point was addressing why LSU didn't go after Macintyre.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Jones has earned his way to a hot seat. You can spend all of the time in the weeds you want trying to make excuses. But the simple fact is that while he's built a better roster and had relatively good discipline off the field.... he's underperformed the talent on the roster in each of his 4 years. Some of us saw it early when he lost to Vandy then a horrible UF team the next year. Some needed the 3 losses last year to start questioning his coaching ability. Some even held out to this year when he clearly underperformed the talent he had even in some early wins and before the injuries.

Some... are clinging to the delusion that he might still be a good coach.

The only way he becomes what UT needs is if he changes himself and things within the program in a major way.... and so far there's no indication he's going to do that.

Absolutely.

If the results are identical 4 more years from now after Jones had his BS 6-7 years to build a program, some of these guys would be making the same straw man arguments and laying the same defensive reasoning out for Jones.

Guess they somehow think it makes them better fans.

 

[dougvolfan]

We are around 68% winning avg historically. In a 12 game season with a bowl game that works out to around 8.8 wins per year. We are what we are a 9-3 type program. This will average out the same over the future unless you can lure in one of the big name coaches. We are only now starting to produce good instate tallent (3. 5stars and 7 4 stars). The way we played and the way we lost is inexcusable but we need to be a little more realistic about season win totals every year.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

We are around 68% winning avg historically. In a 12 game season with a bowl game that works out to around 8.8 wins per year. We are what we are a 9-3 type program. This will average out the same over the future unless you can lure in one of the big name coaches. We are only now starting to produce good instate tallent (3. 5stars and 7 4 stars). The way we played and the way we lost is inexcusable but we need to be a little more realistic about season win totals every year.

Yep.

In state talent continues to rise and it unfortunately is heading out of state this season. 7 out of the top 10 heading elsewhere according to Rivals.

Yet another reason I have little faith in Jones long term at this point.

 

[BeecherVol]

The problem is that the defense was playing so badly it was going to require the offense to OUTSCORE Vandy. The number of points scored in the first half should have been enough.

Which it did for a half. Everybody knew going in UT had to score a bunch.

The defense actually gave up 3 less points in the second half while the offense scored 28 less.

It was a group effort.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I am not going to count out the loser of the QB battle in the Spring pulling up anchor and heading out. That's why they took the kid from Memphis last week IMO.

I haven't seen much out of Mahoney's group in terms of development in 4 years now so I don't expect them to take an exponential step forward. Dobbs and the RB's made that group look a lot better than they actually performed this season.

Defensively, I don't think you can ever count on first year players being ready for the physical nature of the SEC, especially at tackle.

I think 8-9 wins should be the expectation at this point but won't be surprised to see them slip to 5-7 wins behind a green QB and suspect play on the line of scrimmage again.

Many have said CBJ will wait till fall camp to name the starter at QB to hold what we got. It may not be until fall camp that one steps to the front as the starter.

If we could just get healthy on the Oline were the guys could spent some time together as a unit rather than a revolving door of a squad.

As for the defense I remember back in the day when our youngsters would go in for a play and their number was called. They may not be ready to play as an every down player, but to go in and run a stunt to make a big play in a particular situation. Kind of like we expect a pass so sent in the sack specialists running a stunt against the front we expect. Send them in to run their play and then sub them back out for the next play.

I don't recall Butch down playing what was expected this year, he need to keep the expectations at the same level this year. If he is building what he said he is then once the expectation is at the highest level there is no way he should pull back and try to sell us on lowering the bar. It's time to keep slugging it out and maintain the highest of expectations. For me if he backs down then he isn't even bought into what he's been selling.

He is on thin ice and his seat is hot.

Get it together Butch.

 

[volfannbama]

We are around 68% winning avg historically. In a 12 game season with a bowl game that works out to around 8.8 wins per year. We are what we are a 9-3 type program. This will average out the same over the future unless you can lure in one of the big name coaches. We are only now starting to produce good instate tallent (3. 5stars and 7 4 stars). The way we played and the way we lost is inexcusable but we need to be a little more realistic about season win totals every year.

So if I understand you correctly, we as fans should be happy winning 8 games? Regardless of the fan that the team shows the ability to win more games?

 

[TJ1985]

I completely understand the "be realistic about who we are" argument. I know it is unrealistic to expect to finish the season in Atlanta every year. But, I am so frustrated/annoyed with all of the apologists that use this reasoning, coupled with the "who would you hire" argument, that refuse to critically analyze Jones' performance thus far. If we have the evidence that our current staff is underperforming, then it is acceptable and appropriate to look or even demand for a change. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards. We certainly held Fulmer to a high standard, so why should Jones get a pass?

 

[sjt18]

And some ... are clinging ... like they have been since the day that he was hired ... to the delusion that he can't get it done here.

How is that a "delusion"? I started neutral. He has earned my skepticism. He's 2-2 against VANDY. He needed a fluke to beat App State this year while having an overwhelming talent advantage. The list of his shortcomings on the field is long.... and not really in dispute.

And some ... are clinging .. like they have been since Dooley was fired ... to the delusion that Gruden (or some coach who is never going to coach here) ... is going to come in on a white horse and save the day.

That's not me. If I were king, a coach would be given expectations when hired and no more than 4 years to prove they were up to the task. If they couldn't.... "next man up". This is the pattern you see for programs who find championship caliber coaches. Bama ran through coaches. LSU had before Saban arrived. OU went through a couple between Switzer and Stoops. Texas is doing it now. USCw did it. ND is doing it. Michigan and tOSU both did it.

The top programs have high expectations of their HC and do not compromise them even if they have to fire a few guys before finding the right guy.

Frankly, I don't care if the HC's name is Gruden, Cooter, or Jones. The standard should never change and excuses should always be rejected.

 

[dougvolfan]

So if I understand you correctly, we as fans should be happy winning 8 games? Regardless of the fan that the team shows the ability to win more games?

No 7 should be bottom and not often
up to 11-12 wins but average around 9 Wins over a longer period

 

[sjt18]

I completely understand the "be realistic about who we are" argument. I know it is unrealistic to expect to finish the season in Atlanta every year. But, I am so frustrated/annoyed with all of the apologists that use this reasoning, coupled with the "who would you hire" argument, that refuse to critically analyze Jones' performance thus far. If we have the evidence that our current staff is underperforming, then it is acceptable and appropriate to look or even demand for a change. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards. We certainly held Fulmer to a high standard, so why should Jones get a pass?

The short answer is that winning the East will not be as easy as it was the past two years for a long time. Jones had his shot. It was right there for the taking. He choked both years. It wasn't talent. It wasn't experience or depth. It was HIM.

"Realistically"... UF and UGA are pulling their act together. I will be stunned if Muschamp sustains it but he's got some recruiting momentum right now... probably in no small part because he beat Jones... again. It appears that Mason is simply a better coach than Jones.... and relative to talent Stoops probably is too. Mizzou is a mess that probably isn't going to get a ton better any time soon... but the East is still going to get better.

At the same time, Jones has lost or is losing recruiting momentum. Even the best imaginable finish will likely not land them in the top 10. And unfortunately, we've seen what his player development and coaching produce.

 

[sjt18]

The one humorous thing about this conversation is that if Jones does get fired then many of those excusing him now will come down hard on him then. Their eyes will suddenly fly open to see how he "hurt" the program.

This is the same kinds of fans who talked about Hurd like he was a god.... until he got disillusioned and quit on Jones.

 

[sjt18]

We are around 68% winning avg historically. In a 12 game season with a bowl game that works out to around 8.8 wins per year. We are what we are a 9-3 type program. This will average out the same over the future unless you can lure in one of the big name coaches. We are only now starting to produce good instate tallent (3. 5stars and 7 4 stars). The way we played and the way we lost is inexcusable but we need to be a little more realistic about season win totals every year.

UT is what its fans and boosters are willing to accept. I don't find accepting a lowered bar "realistic" at all.

 

[dougvolfan]

If Butch gets fired I will be disapointed in the AD for running the program into the ground starting after 2008. Hiring dooley was crazy. He was 5-7. 8-5. 4-8 at La Tech. We could have had an interim coach intead of that trash

 

[Iam4utalways]

I completely understand the "be realistic about who we are" argument. I know it is unrealistic to expect to finish the season in Atlanta every year. But, I am so frustrated/annoyed with all of the apologists that use this reasoning, coupled with the "who would you hire" argument, that refuse to critically analyze Jones' performance thus far. If we have the evidence that our current staff is underperforming, then it is acceptable and appropriate to look or even demand for a change. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards. We certainly held Fulmer to a high standard, so why should Jones get a pass?

I think the "Who would you get?" is a valid question. Certainly after how the last 3 hires went.

Game day coaching has been suspect each year. Trade one blunder for a different blunder.

The timing is off to make a change now and that has nothing to do with CBJ, but everything to do with who can we get. Will other coaches think he wasn't given a fair shake and avoid the Vols? Who knows?

It's easy to say "I've seen enough to know what's gonna happen next", but we don't, it's all speculation, if Butch can improve or if he has peaked. To say he is in over his head to win it all but he can win 8-9 games a year that's his ceiling. Can he beat Saban? He got close in 2015, no cigar. Can he beat Butter Teeth? Yep. Can he beat Smart? Yep. Can he beat Muschamp? He's gotten close but no cigar yet. He has beat the rest of the east teams( who hasn't).


Until the timing is right to make a change, he has done enough to stay( and enough to be ran off). If he blows it next year then show him the door and go make a "home run hire".

Back to the question. Who? If I don't recognize the next guy hired as HC that will be 4 in a row that I would need to google to find out who they are, please stop that.

Is Butch the guy to win us more NCs? I hope so, but I don't know either way just like none of the rest of y'all.

So many get mad at him at how he handles the press, thats the least of our problems. It's all about getting the team ready each week and making good decisions during the game that help us win rather than cause us to lose.

As long as he is our HC, my stance is "the jury is still out", but there is a lot of evidence some for and some against. There is enough to say he's not the guy, but there is not enough to say, "I know he can do it". But then again how many coaches can you say that about these days, " Hire Coach X and 90% chance he can get you a NC."? Saban is the only one. Every body else is a gamble and even Saban is no guarantee.

The poll should ask:

Can he do it?

Yes, I know he can.

No, I know he can't.

Maybe, maybe not, I'm no psychic.


Get it together Butch.

 

[touchdown-tony]

We are around 68% winning avg historically. In a 12 game season with a bowl game that works out to around 8.8 wins per year. We are what we are a 9-3 type program. This will average out the same over the future unless you can lure in one of the big name coaches. We are only now starting to produce good instate tallent (3. 5stars and 7 4 stars). The way we played and the way we lost is inexcusable but we need to be a little more realistic about season win totals every year.

I do not understand this logic.

Alabama has roughly a 72% win average historically. That works out to around 9.4 wins per year.
A half a game average is not what separates realism about expectations between the two schools.

Also consider that in 2006, the last year for Bama without Saban the win percentages of each school were:

Tennessee: 69.7%
Alabama: 70.4%

That equates to 9.1 wins in a 13 game season for Tennessee v. 9.2 wins for Alabama.

Our expectations should be as high as anyone's in college football. nothing less.

 

[volfannbama]

No 7 should be bottom and not often
up to 11-12 wins but average around 9 Wins over a longer period

If we were 9-3 right now and headed to the Sugar Bowl, how many reasonable fans do you think would not be excited?


And that's the issue.