'17 NC OL TJ Moore (former USCe commit)

[RockyTopInBham]

With the OL getting depth, could we see Jashon move back to DT?

Not happening. If the guy is healthy, he's your LG. Has started every game he's been healthy since he got here on the OL.

 

[Glitch]

They must know something about otters that we don't. Do we not need one more OL? And if you don't have room for this guy, then who are you taking on the OL?

Now Butch has otters working form him! Oh heck yeah. They be crafty!

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

If we added Butler and Sterling both, I would be all for that. We desperately need guys that project to help inside.

Just doing the math on the OL, TN lost Weisman, Sanders, and Mosley may have moved to DL for good just due to numbers (not a bad idea if not on the OL two deep). we have three committed, AND they have moved Brooks to OT - so I guess they are looking at numbers/needs.

What would truly suck is you whiff on DL altogether, and in the meantime Moore signs with someone else. But that is part of it.

The only problem with Butler and Sterling is that they are not true DTs right now. They need a redshirt year to put on some significant weight to play inside. That is all well and good, if we can do that. However, the problem is that we need a couple of bodies who might give some meaningful snaps next year.

 

[UTMark]

The only problem with Butler and Sterling is that they are not true DTs right now. They need a redshirt year to put on some significant weight to play inside. That is all well and good, if we can do that. However, the problem is that we need a couple of bodies who might give some meaningful snaps next year.

There just aren't many HS kids that can come in and play line in P5 football effectively and there seem to be less of those kids in this cycle.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

There just aren't many HS kids that can come in and play line in P5 football effectively and there seem to be less of those kids in this cycle.

No doubt, this cycle is extremely weak for true DTs.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

Here's hoping a grad transfer can come in and contribute at DT.

 

[UTMark]

No doubt, this cycle is extremely weak for true DTs.

This is where missing on a HS DT last year starts to hurt.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Here's hoping a grad transfer can come in and contribute at DT.

I agree. It would be really nice to find one this off-season.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

This is where missing on a HS DT last year starts to hurt.

Really wish we would've landed Brown

 

[keckjm]

Just so you don't think that I think Butch is awesome, I squarely blame him for the Hurd situation getting out of control, the lethargic play vs Appy St, Ohio, SC and Vandy, and all the turnovers just to name a few areas he failed at this year.

But your argument isn't one that I can get behind.

He has had to play almost all OL and DL without redshirting them out of necessity. I'm sure he would have loved to put Austin Sanders out there. I doubt he had the foot speed to get into position and so he had to put someone out there that could - regardless of size. It is not like CBJ didn't like Austin, he let him run through the T as a junior. He flat out couldn't get it done.

This is the biggest predicament Butch has been in as he cannot fully develop his linemen. He needs them too soon. It's a positive that Drew, Ryan Johnson and a few others have gotten to RS in the last 2 years. But he's just playing the hard he was dealt.

We just stated the same thing outside the fact you believe Tatum was a better option. My stance is, we can't beat Bama, period. So, why burn Tatum's RS year just to go out there and get killed by a far superior team. Austin Sanders isn't the answer, but it didn't matter who played RT that day. Ultimately, Butch and Mahoney are 100% to blame for this OL mess. Our OL depth year 4 is awful. I'm not trying to hate here, but most our starting OL couldn't even see the field at most SEC west teams. It's one of the biggest reasons Butch can't beat SEC west teams. At year 4, it's not the hand you are dealt, it's the one you created.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

We just stated the same thing outside the fact you believe Tatum was a better option. My stance is, we can't beat Bama, period. So, why burn Tatum's RS year just to go out there and get killed by a far superior team. Austin Sanders isn't the answer, but it didn't matter who played RT that day. Ultimately, Butch and Mahoney are 100% to blame for this OL mess. Our OL depth year 4 is awful. I'm not trying to hate here, but most our starting OL couldn't even see the field at most SEC west teams. It's one of the biggest reasons Butch can't beat SEC west teams.

Welcome to ignoreland.

 

[keckjm]

Welcome to ignoreland.

Welcome to wearing the orange shades way to much. If you don't think what I said isn't the truth, then you are blind. Our OL is one of the biggest reasons we are 8-4. You don't throw a 270 pound freshman at OT against the best team in the country, and in year 4 you shouldn't even be in that boat depth wise.

 

[BigorangeBoy]

The only problem with Butler and Sterling is that they are not true DTs right now. They need a redshirt year to put on some significant weight to play inside. That is all well and good, if we can do that. However, the problem is that we need a couple of bodies who might give some meaningful snaps next year.

Agree with that, the problem seems to be we have zero true, plug an play DTs we have a shot with (that we know of). Crosby hopefully can help quickly, but even Bennett will need a RS season IMO.

 

[unioncityvol]

We just stated the same thing outside the fact you believe Tatum was a better option. My stance is, we can't beat Bama, period. So, why burn Tatum's RS year just to go out there and get killed by a far superior team. Austin Sanders isn't the answer, but it didn't matter who played RT that day. Ultimately, Butch and Mahoney are 100% to blame for this OL mess. Our OL depth year 4 is awful. I'm not trying to hate here, but most our starting OL couldn't even see the field at most SEC west teams. It's one of the biggest reasons Butch can't beat SEC west teams. At year 4, it's not the hand you are dealt, it's the one you created.

RS tatum next year maybe?

 

[therickbol]

Welcome to wearing the orange shades way to much. If you don't think what I said isn't the truth, then you are blind. Our OL is one of the biggest reasons we are 8-4. You don't throw a 270 pound freshman at OT against the best team in the country, and in year 4 you shouldn't even be in that boat depth wise.

You do realize our T depth is the same (adding #1 HS T & EE), so it's very possible to redshirt him next season, no?

 

[keckjm]

RS tatum next year maybe?

I would hope that's the plan. Hopefully Smith can either start and be productive or RS too.

 

[therickbol]

Welcome to wearing the orange shades way to much. If you don't think what I said isn't the truth, then you are blind. Our OL is one of the biggest reasons we are 8-4. You don't throw a 270 pound freshman at OT against the best team in the country, and in year 4 you shouldn't even be in that boat depth wise.

And in a list reasons we lost 4 games, OL is not at the top.

 

[UTMark]

We just stated the same thing outside the fact you believe Tatum was a better option. My stance is, we can't beat Bama, period. So, why burn Tatum's RS year just to go out there and get killed by a far superior team. Austin Sanders isn't the answer, but it didn't matter who played RT that day. Ultimately, Butch and Mahoney are 100% to blame for this OL mess. Our OL depth year 4 is awful. I'm not trying to hate here, but most our starting OL couldn't even see the field at most SEC west teams. It's one of the biggest reasons Butch can't beat SEC west teams. At year 4, it's not the hand you are dealt, it's the one you created.

Butch HAD to play Jashon, Coleman, Chance, Jack, Dylan, and Tatum (and I'm probably missing one or two) as true freshmen. There is a true advantage of being able to RS and getting guys to that 5th year. He has finally started to have the luxury of redshirting, but the cover was that bare, thus the hand he was dealt comment.

Should they have developed more? I think so, but we've rushed for a lot of yards the last 2 years and they should get credit for that. Pass blocking had something to be desired though.

 

[VolGee4]

How in the world do you go into a season, year 4, and have two/three OT that can play? That's the issue. The other issue is, I would have put Austin Sanders out there before I put a freshman OT that outweighed Alabama's LBs by 15 pounds. That's just piss poor management by Butch and his staff. Tatum doesn't need to see the field for a minimum of two years. I wouldn't have burned that kids redshirt. He looks like a TE right now, not a SEC OT.

I think you actually need 6 OT's that can play because you can swap from either side. They were willing to have to burn Tatum's redshirt instead of Johnson or Niehaus because I believe at least one or both of them will be tackles. They lost their entire OL after 2013, so they needed a few years to build the depth. They had issues at other positions, so they couldn't take 6+ OL in a year. Did they make some mistakes? Sure. Blair was a bust. They also lost Zach Stewart.

I don't know the situation with Sanders, but I don't think Butch is just indifferent to his OL.

 

[keckjm]

And in a list reasons we lost 4 games, OL is not at the top.

Our OL issues are masked by Dobbs ability to run, who's gone after one more game. Go back and watch our OL play. They can't win 1 on 1 matchups. Hall, Jones, and Robertson are the only guys we have they can block people consistently down field. I think Boulware can be good in time, but our guys just aren't being coached up. It's clear when you watch us play, and it's been clear since last year. Mahoney isn't a SEC level OL coach. There's a reason, outside no adjuments in play calling, that we can't control leads late in games, like Vandy. It's because we can dominate the line of scrimmage.

 

[VolGee4]

Welcome to wearing the orange shades way to much. If you don't think what I said isn't the truth, then you are blind. Our OL is one of the biggest reasons we are 8-4. You don't throw a 270 pound freshman at OT against the best team in the country, and in year 4 you shouldn't even be in that boat depth wise.

No way. OL did not turn the ball over 7 times against A&M. OL did not turn the ball over against USC. OL did not give up 45 points to Vandy.

This was essentially the same OL that was the second best rushing attack in school history last year. If anything, you can complain that they let Hurd run when Kamara or Kelly we're better in the system.

 

[keckjm]

Butch HAD to play Jashon, Coleman, Chance, Jack, Dylan, and Tatum (and I'm probably missing one or two) as true freshmen. There is a true advantage of being able to RS and getting guys to that 5th year. He has finally started to have the luxury of redshirting, but the cover was that bare, thus the hand he was dealt comment.

Should they have developed more? I think so, but we've rushed for a lot of yards the last 2 years and they should get credit for that. Pass blocking had something to be desired though.

I'm not trying to start a huge argument here. We all want our Vols to win. I'm just not going to accept the excuse that in year 4 our 4th OT on the depth chart is a Fr who weighs 270 pounds and was considered by most as a 2-3 year project. As a life time Vol fan, I find that totally unacceptable year 4 of a coaching job. That's a huge failure by Butch and Mahoney. It's not about having Fr in the 2-deep year 4. It's about the quality of Fr you have in the 2-deep. Huge difference in Smith vs Tatum. That's my issue. I just think Butch has failed to recruit and develop OL, and it's because of his homeboy Mahoney who doesn't have a good track record for developing OL that turn into very good college/pro prospects.

 

[keckjm]

No way. OL did not turn the ball over 7 times against A&M. OL did not turn the ball over against USC. OL did not give up 45 points to Vandy.

This was essentially the same OL that was the second best rushing attack in school history last year. If anything, you can complain that they let Hurd run when Kamara or Kelly we're better in the system.

Those numbers though aren't representive of our OL. They show you how good Dobbs and Kamara are. Those guys consistently get hit at the line of scrimmage and still make plays. Even if we go down that path, who's fault is it that Kamara wasn't playing? It makes you question who else this staff has mismanaged. I think Charles Mosley is another great example. He wasn't going to play OG here. He should have been moved to DT last year for depth purposes the minute Shy went down. I think Evan and Byrd should be two way players for us. The list can go on. I'm not a coach, but I've been around football my whole life and I have a fair knowledge of the game. I just don't agree with some of the managing our staff does, like putting KP at DT last year as a freshman when we need his explosiveness off the edge once DB leaves for the NFL this year.

 

[JacketVol]

How in the world do you go into a season, year 4, and have two/three OT that can play? That's the issue. The other issue is, I would have put Austin Sanders out there before I put a freshman OT that outweighed Alabama's LBs by 15 pounds. That's just piss poor management by Butch and his staff. Tatum doesn't need to see the field for a minimum of two years. I wouldn't have burned that kids redshirt. He looks like a TE right now, not a SEC OT.

I have a feeling Tatum will redshirt this year so by 2018, we are even plus he will have had two years to be constantly in the weight room to get SEC tackle ready. Did not matter which year he red shirted at that point. No real playing time regardkess till third year.

 

[JacketVol]

I'm not trying to start a huge argument here. We all want our Vols to win. I'm just not going to accept the excuse that in year 4 our 4th OT on the depth chart is a Fr who weighs 270 pounds and was considered by most as a 2-3 year project. As a life time Vol can, I find that totally unacceptable year 4 of a coaching job. That's a huge failur by Butch and Mahoney. It's not about having Fr in the 2-deep year 4. It's about the quality of Fr you have in the 2-deep year. Huge difference in Smith vs Tatum. That's my issue. I just think Butch has failed to recruit and develop OL, and it's because of his homeboy Mahoney who doesn't have a good track record for developing OL that turn into very good college/pro prospects.

The failure was 2012 and DOOLEY. 0 OL that cycle. 0