152 - 52

#126
#126
NashVol11 said:
The support I'm referring to isn't about wanting them to win. It's about making dumbass excuses for Dooley and Butch when they lose. There's not a single damn thing noble about that.
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And booing the coach in the stadium, calling in fake DUIs, etc is noble?
 
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#127
#127
whobethis16 said:
And booing the coach in the stadium, calling in fake DUIs, etc is noble?
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I've never said any of that. I'm talking about people making idiotic excuses and then trying to claim the moral high ground over those who call a spade a spade. You don't get brownie points for pretending a bad coach isn't bad.
 
#128
#128
NashVol11 said:
I've never said any of that. I'm talking about people making idiotic excuses and then trying to claim the moral high ground over those who call a spade a spade. You don't get brownie points for pretending a bad coach isn't bad.
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No, you've been painting those that aren't castrating Butch with such a broad brush and thumping your chest over them.

I support all coaches who are on the any Tennessee sideline until they are no longer the coach, or do something worse than losing, ie Penn State, Rick Pitino. This year has been garbage. No question. But because I'm not doing those things, or acting like a 5 year old and calling him "Botch" or anything, I'm called a homer.

The fact that I actually act my age towards the man instead of my shoe size does show I am on the higher ground.
 
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#129
#129
vols1221 said:
Game passed him by? Run the ball, and play great defense. I think this is still what everyone wants to do.

You're out of your mind if you think nobody called him! He is a Tennessee boy. Spent his entire life here. His heart wouldn't let him go anywhere else!
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I wish someone could explain this concept so simple I could understand it. The game passed passed him by?

Football is blocking and tackling at its core. If your team does those two things at a high level you will win far more than you lose. CPF failed in the same fashion that basically all coaches fail, poor hires and poor use of practice time. Practice time usage might be the only concept where coaches have fallen behind. When one team is getting 100 reps to your 50 or so they will kick your ass most times if the talent is even close to equal. My guess is this is where CBJ has failed. Either poor technique being taught which equals wasted reps, poor teaching abilities which means pissed away practice time trying to get everyone to understand, worrying about conditioning at the end of practice when if you rep enough times at a high pace none of the silly **** we were all made to do in high school ( sprints at the end of practice and other silliness) is needed or simply unintelligent coaches who talk to damn much will cause a team to perform at a very low level.

Without being there my guess is it is a classic mbination of the above by some of the coaches on staff. In my opinion, the oversight of practice pace is where CBJ has likely failed.

While I know that so many fans grew up on XBox and think that it's all about outguess your opponent on game day and that is what makes a good coach, I can assure you that has much less to do with winning than getting prepared both mentally and physically through the week. There have been some coaches who truly were genius level at play calling (outguessing their opponents on game day) but like everyone else once their tendencies are discovered they become pretty average coaches. See Steve Spurrier and Mike Leach as only two examples. And for those who gush about Steve and his offense and conference and national championships, look at his defenses when he was so successful. They were elite level in talent and rarely misses a tackle.
 
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#130
#130
I guess going to 5 SEC Championship Games in 11 years, including the year before he was fired by a bean counter was not good enough for some of y'all. His history would tell us, the Vols would have been in 3 or 4 SEC Championship Games in the years since he was fired.
 
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#131
#131
whobethis16 said:
No, you've been painting those that aren't castrating Butch with such a broad brush and thumping your chest over them.

I support all coaches who are on the any Tennessee sideline until they are no longer the coach, or do something worse than losing, ie Penn State, Rick Pitino. This year has been garbage. No question. But because I'm not doing those things, or acting like a 5 year old and calling him "Botch" or anything, I'm called a homer.

The fact that I actually act my age towards the man instead of my shoe size does show I am on the higher ground.
Click to expand...

My point was that this board made excuses for Dooley and Butch long after they had shown themselves to be bad coaches. You are implying that making those excuses is part of being a true fan, and that those who call them bad coaches are "whiny *****es." Who's painting with a broad brush again? Lol
 
#132
#132
NashVol11 said:
My point was that this board made excuses for Dooley and Butch long after they had shown themselves to be bad coaches. You are implying that making those excuses is part of being a true fan, and that those who call them bad coaches are "whiny *****es." Who's painting with a broad brush again? Lol
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So, if they hadn't shown they were bad coaches, what's the complaint? Means they should've had everyone's support.
 
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#136
#136
NashVol11 said:
That gives me more faith in Currie. He's apparently more intelligent than the majority of this board, which remember:

1. Largely supported Dooley until he was fired
2. Largely supported Butch until like a month ago
3. Wanted to bring back Bruce Pearl
4. Wants Fulmer back
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So you grade intelligence in accordance with how much they agree with YOU? :thumbsup:
 
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#138
#138
NashVol11 said:
The support I'm referring to isn't about wanting them to win. It's about making dumbass excuses for Dooley and Butch when they lose. There's not a single damn thing noble about that.
Click to expand...

Dumbass is a technical term? :question:
 
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#140
#140
NashVol11 said:
No, Dooley is a bad coach. Saying he's bad isn't "agreeing with me," it's a fact.
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Wasn’t a “fact” until he proved it. Waiting for it to become so isn’t being a “dumbass”. :)
 
#143
#143
TheManFromTenn said:
Just saying 🏈
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Look at Major"s last 4 years vs. Fulmer's last 4 years.

Majors had a mostly 10 win seasons and 2 SEC Championships.

Fulmer had 2 losing seasons and a SEC Championship game appearance.

Firing Majors and keeping Fulmer was the most hypocritical aspect of our history. I agree that Majors thought he was bigger than the program. But so did Fulmer. Fulmer had an opportunity to take over the SEC in 2001 when Spurrier left Florida. But he did not have the capability.

The reason that no other program hired Fulmer was because when you need a coach you need someone who could build a program. Fulmer had a program gifted to him and when he lost it he could not bring it back.
 
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#144
#144
GetYouSomeofThat said:
I wish someone could explain this concept so simple I could understand it. The game passed passed him by?

Football is blocking and tackling at its core. If your team does those two things at a high level you will win far more than you lose. CPF failed in the same fashion that basically all coaches fail, poor hires and poor use of practice time. Practice time usage might be the only concept where coaches have fallen behind. When one team is getting 100 reps to your 50 or so they will kick your ass most times if the talent is even close to equal. My guess is this is where CBJ has failed. Either poor technique being taught which equals wasted reps, poor teaching abilities which means pissed away practice time trying to get everyone to understand, worrying about conditioning at the end of practice when if you rep enough times at a high pace none of the silly **** we were all made to do in high school ( sprints at the end of practice and other silliness) is needed or simply unintelligent coaches who talk to damn much will cause a team to perform at a very low level.

Without being there my guess is it is a classic mbination of the above by some of the coaches on staff. In my opinion, the oversight of practice pace is where CBJ has likely failed.

While I know that so many fans grew up on XBox and think that it's all about outguess your opponent on game day and that is what makes a good coach, I can assure you that has much less to do with winning than getting prepared both mentally and physically through the week. There have been some coaches who truly were genius level at play calling (outguessing their opponents on game day) but like everyone else once their tendencies are discovered they become pretty average coaches. See Steve Spurrier and Mike Leach as only two examples. And for those who gush about Steve and his offense and conference and national championships, look at his defenses when he was so successful. They were elite level in talent and rarely misses a tackle.
Click to expand...

Fulmer was very similar to Butch in many ways, he just had better assistants (and stability in most of them, especially on the Defensive side of the ball). Phil's win % was 82% with Cutcliffe, 67% without.
Phil could be just as stubborn with his resistance to adapting play styles. Even Saban has adopted more spread option in their offense. It feels like both Phil and Butch would just keep trying to stick square pegs in round holes and make it work.
 
#145
#145
GetYouSomeofThat said:
I wish someone could explain this concept so simple I could understand it. The game passed passed him by?

Football is blocking and tackling at its core. If your team does those two things at a high level you will win far more than you lose. CPF failed in the same fashion that basically all coaches fail, poor hires and poor use of practice time. Practice time usage might be the only concept where coaches have fallen behind. When one team is getting 100 reps to your 50 or so they will kick your ass most times if the talent is even close to equal. My guess is this is where CBJ has failed. Either poor technique being taught which equals wasted reps, poor teaching abilities which means pissed away practice time trying to get everyone to understand, worrying about conditioning at the end of practice when if you rep enough times at a high pace none of the silly **** we were all made to do in high school ( sprints at the end of practice and other silliness) is needed or simply unintelligent coaches who talk to damn much will cause a team to perform at a very low level.

Without being there my guess is it is a classic mbination of the above by some of the coaches on staff. In my opinion, the oversight of practice pace is where CBJ has likely failed.
Click to expand...

100% correct. I said a few weeks ago that this team, offensively, has all the symptoms of a scheme that's so needlessly complicated that it cuts into practice time and creates confusion in-game. Rather than focusing on the most basic building blocks of developing individual skill, too much time is devoted to making a never-ending series of arcane adjustments that simply will not or should not be used in game situations. And if not that, then it's constantly putting new plays in.

When I played in high school as an O-lineman, between one-third and one-half of our individual time was spent on nothing but perfecting stances, going through the first steps, and everything up to actual contact. Then the remaining time was spent on drills: maybe it was time in the chutes, maybe it was double-team drills, maybe it was pass-rushing, or some combination of all. We did this so often that to this day, I could still snap off a perfect stance and cut block at the drop of a hat. And when I started coaching, this is how I did things as well.

When I went to a new school, this wasn't how it was done...individual time was mostly for making in-week adjustments, and the offense was so needlessly complex that working on schemes took priority over actual skill development. But the defense was incredibly simple, and my D-line was like a swarm of hornets.

Our popgun offense couldn't get out of its own way, but our defense allowed something like 12 points/game, which is even more impressive considering that we lost the turnover, field position, and time of possession battles every single week because of the offense. The offensive plays were so long and complex that we averaged two delay of game penalties and one burned timeout per game (due to wrong alignments or personnel). But the defense was so good that only one team scored more than 17 points against us all year - that being a state champion led by a five-star recruit.
 
#146
#146
AustinMem said:
Fulmer was very similar to Butch in many ways, he just had better assistants (and stability in most of them, especially on the Defensive side of the ball). Phil's win % was 82% with Cutcliffe, 67% without.
Phil could be just as stubborn with his resistance to adapting play styles. Even Saban has adopted more spread option in their offense. It feels like both Phil and Butch would just keep trying to stick square pegs in round holes and make it work.
Click to expand...

Then look at Tom Osborne with Nebraska, where the playbook was nearly the same in 1997 as it was in 1977. Their entire offense was built around a very small handful of plays: double option, off-tackle, iso, fullback trap, and play action. Every single opposing team that they played knew this, but more often than not the opponent was left flailing about in vain as Nebraska's high school offense shredded them for 50 points.

UT's offensive woes recently have been twofold: needlessly complex schemes that cut into practice time and skill development, and the inability to develop players to the point that they could overcome this and still produce points.
 
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#148
#148
At the end of the day, maybe not dependent on the HC, is the need for a better than serviceable QB unless your Defense is Alabama caliber.

Butch has been exposed without Dobbs.

Fulmer was exposed when his QB, Crompton or whomever, didn't pan out for him and produce. Peyton and Tee made it happen previously.

Look at Jimbo Fisher without Francois. Good D, no offense.

Miles without a QB but good D.

I could go on and on but seemingly QB recruitment AND development is probably the most common factor to Coaching turnover.

I'll hang up and listen.
 
#150
#150
TheManFromTenn said:
Anyone have regrets?
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None - it was deja vu from Majors last few years. Recruiting had tailed off, the teams were undisciplined and athlete behavior off the field was getting out of control. Very reminiscent of the last few years of Majors - not as bad, but on the same path.
 
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