'14 F VA Jabari McGhee (UT commit 5/2/14)

#177
#177
bleedingTNorange said:
So you think McGhee and Davis are similar? My point made. I would hope Tyndall wouldn't offer a guy similar to Reese, and that if those are the guys he's gonna fill out his roster with that's a bad sign.

Martin landed a top 120 recruit his first year, will Tyndall?
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I assume you mean Reese.

Yeah. Big difference in taking McGhee in May when you only have 7 scholarship players and taking Reese in August with only 3 scholarships to give for that year.

I WISH you were this critical of CCM!!!
 
#178
#178
BigZiti09 said:
I assume you mean Reese.

Yeah. Big difference in taking McGhee in May when you only have 7 scholarship players and taking Reese in August with only 3 scholarships to give for that year.

I WISH you were this critical of CCM!!!
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So like I've said, if Tyndall fills this class meaning a guy like McGhee could've been passed on and held his scholarship for next year you'll criticize?

I WISH you would hold people to the same standard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#179
#179
bleedingtnorange said:
the logic is simple. you have criticized martin for filling spots with guys not worthy, you've also said you didn't think tyndall would fill all 6 spots. If he does, and take guys like this, you're a complete hypocrite if you don't at least question it.
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not in his first class when he had 6 scholarships to give in the spring!!!! Quit saying that i did.
 
#182
#182
bleedingTNorange said:
The logic is simple. You have criticized Martin for filling spots with guys not worthy, you've also said you didn't think Tyndall would fill all 6 spots. If he does, and take guys like this, you're a complete hypocrite if you don't at least question it.
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Martin is a terrible judge of talent. We are going to have to wait before we can really judge DT. Until then, I support DT.
 
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#184
#184
vols 30 said:
Martin is a terrible judge of talent. We are going to have to wait before we can really judge DT. Until then, I support DT.
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At least you're keeping the same standards. If McGhee looks like crap next year you'll criticize the take and also criticize Tyndall's evaluation, that's fair IMO.
 
#185
#185
bleedingTNorange said:
So like I've said, if Tyndall fills this class meaning a guy like McGhee could've been passed on and held his scholarship for next year you'll criticize?

I WISH you would hold people to the same standard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Nope. I will NOT criticize anything about his first class. Same as CCM.
 
#186
#186
bleedingTNorange said:
The logic is simple. You have criticized Martin for filling spots with guys not worthy, you've also said you didn't think Tyndall would fill all 6 spots. If he does, and take guys like this, you're a complete hypocrite if you don't at least question it.
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Gotcha.
You're saying, you're going to call a heart a heart on both coaches. (Had to be careful how I worded that)
I'm okay with that. Same standard for both.
 
#189
#189
bleedingTNorange said:
You have absolutely criticized filling a class with guys not worthy, you even admitted in this thread you did. Lmao
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He took guys that are unworthy. Yeah. It didn't upset me year 1 because I understood the situation. Landry, Reese were two of the worst recruiting jobs he made and I absolutely criticize those takes. In large part of the timing.

I guess you are going to continue to pretend you don't understand the difference in taking Reese in the fall before he graduates and taking McGhee in May before his frosh year.

Go back and read my posts.
 
#191
#191
calban said:
Gotcha.
You're saying, you're going to call a heart a heart on both coaches. (Had to be careful how I worded that)
I'm okay with that. Same standard for both.
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Right. I'm not criticizing the move to take McGhee, as I've said I think he will turn out to be a fine player. Coaches also trust their evals and are gonna go to battle with their own guys and wanna go down swinging with their guys, so I'm fine with it.

My point is simply that Martin was criticized by many of the same people praising this move, for taking guys like Yemi or Wes. Initially they may have simply questioned the take and said well we will see, but many said he wasted scholarships on those guys and could've just saved those scholarships for the next class.
 
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#192
#192
Chris4Vols22 said:
The fact that people are trying to deny it is so frustrating.
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What I find funny is that you and BTO are just going off of memory. I went back and looked at the Wes Washpun and Dwight Howard threads and it was overwhelmingly people excited at getting them. There was comments about CCM doing it again and things like that. It was absolutely no different than this thread besides some fans accusing others of not being as critical of a former coach.
 
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#193
#193
BigZiti09 said:
He took guys that are unworthy. Yeah. It didn't upset me year 1 because I understood the situation. Landry, Reese were two of the worst recruiting jobs he made and I absolutely criticize those takes. In large part of the timing.

I guess you are going to continue to pretend you don't understand the difference in taking Reese in the fall before he graduates and taking McGhee in May before his frosh year.

Go back and read my posts.
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Stop with year 2 and beyond....

Simply put, you NEVER criticized Martin for any of 1. Wes Washpun 2. Dwight miller 3. Yemi Makanjoula 4. Using all his scholarships initially when he could've saved a few 5. Taking guys who were reaches


You never criticized any of those moves? I seem to recall you specifically questioning filling all 13 roster spots, and saying that he could've passed on 1 or 2 and used them later on. It may not have been initially, it may have been sometime this year you criticized that move, but I seem to recall it.
 
#194
#194
volbeast33 said:
What I find funny is that you and BTO are just going off of memory. I went back and looked at the Wes Washpun and Dwight Howard threads and it was overwhelmingly people excited at getting them. There was comments about CCM doing it again and things like that. It was absolutely no different than this thread besides some fans accusing others of not being as critical of a former coach.
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I can understand why people would be complimentary of Martin landing him
 
#195
#195
volbeast33 said:
What I find funny is that you and BTO are just going off of memory. I went back and looked at the Wes Washpun and Dwight Howard threads and it was overwhelmingly people excited at getting them. There was comments about CCM doing it again and things like that. It was absolutely no different than this thread besides some fans accusing others of not being as critical of a former coach.
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Wish we could have gotten Howard. Must have meant Miller.
 
#196
#196
volbeast33 said:
What I find funny is that you and BTO are just going off of memory. I went back and looked at the Wes Washpun and Dwight Howard threads and it was overwhelmingly people excited at getting them. There was comments about CCM doing it again and things like that. It was absolutely no different than this thread besides some fans accusing others of not being as critical of a former coach.
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You mind bumping those threads.//
 
#197
#197
bleedingTNorange said:
Stop with year 2 and beyond....

Simply put, you NEVER criticized Martin for any of 1. Wes Washpun 2. Dwight miller 3. Yemi Makanjoula 4. Using all his scholarships initially when he could've saved a few 5. Taking guys who were reaches


You never criticized any of those moves? I seem to recall you specifically questioning filling all 13 roster spots, and saying that he could've passed on 1 or 2 and used them later on. It may not have been initially, it may have been sometime this year you criticized that move, but I seem to recall it.
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You're wrong. I didn't criticize that move. We had to have bodies.

You are wrong. I invite you to search for it. Please do.

Here's some posts I found that I made dating back to December 2012....

BigZiti09 said:
I absolutely give him a pass on that first class.

I was speaking more of the Landry kid and Reese. Questionable takes IMO. I know he took Landry too early. Seems like Reese was early on in the process too. Guys like that can be taken in the spring of their senior season. Not midway through their junior year. He also completely whiffed on Demontre Edwards. He recruited Armani as a pg.

I just think overall the bar needs to be raised a little. Now that he's got a sweet 16 under his belt I hope he can do that.

I think he has learned along the way. He also at one time said he didn't need a point guard. He's brought in 3 in the last 12 months. He's realized the value of a good point guard.
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BigZiti09 said:
I don't really have a problem with Martin's philosophy on recruiting. My biggest problem is that he has taken kids way too early that aren't SEC caliber. And I'm not talking about his first class. I give a pass there.

Going forward, he needs to recruit the top 150. I know rankings aren't everything, but in hoops they are pretty reliable. Scouts see these kids head to head in AAU. You've got to recruit the right fits, I get that. But Martin needs to raise the bar a little. Now, he's got to have some tourney success or it's not going to happen. If he were to make a run to the sweet 16 this year, then I think going forward he will be able to more often land the Looney, Lyle, Nichols kids that he's finished 2nd for in the past.

Specifically, I'd like to see him get more kids in the top 100. So far, his only 2 are Stokes and Hubbs IIRC.
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BigZiti09 said:
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. He has room to improve in recruiting. He's probably not going to have the type of success I'd like to see consistently until he wins some games.

I will also say that he's getting solid recruits that deserve scholarships at UT. In the past he has recruited a couple of kids that were not the caliber of players we need at UT. I know some hold that first class against him but I give a complete pass on that class. He stepped into a disaster and was adding bodies to a degree.

If you stay in the top 150 range you're going to build solid teams. However, when you're signing multiple guys in the 100-170 range, you really need to add a centerpiece to the puzzle. I'm not disappointed in any of our commits. Just hope he lands the big fish for this 5th spot. I don't want to see us sign someone just to sign them.
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BigZiti09 said:
It's not coaching. It's recruiting. The entire freshman class is not SEC caliber. That includes the redshirt freshman Chevious as well.

I give Martin a pass on the first class because we needed bodies and the NCAA was in town and we were graduating a lot of guys and we had two guys leave earlier. On top of that we had two commits bolt when pearl got canned.

Martin's inability to sign good players has been our downfall. I hate to be hard on individual players but with the exception of Richardson and Stokes and potentially Hubbs, Martin hasn't brought in guys that can play. What's worse is that we've got two more questionable signees this class. Landry is supposed to be the pg yet here we are in January looking at point guards to sign in the spring. Why? My fear is that coach has realized that Landry can't get it done at this level.

Coaching isn't the problem. It's talent.
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BigZiti09 said:
Does anyone else feel like Cuonzo is killing himself by settling for marginal recruits? I love that he got Stokes and Hubbs and he was right there for AN, but it seems like every single other player he has signed has been a career bench player at best. I give him a pass on the first class because he was in a tight spot and I know we needed bodies but I have questions about the guys he has taken. Even more so I question the time at which he took them. The Reese kid committed way early as well as Landry. To me, those kids are takes in the spring, not a year before the fall signing period.

To me, I think his recruiting is going to be his downfall. You have to get some 5 star guys to win big and he's done that. But you can't surround them with average players. I guess I'd feel better if we signed a 4 star occassionally instead of guys who are borderline 2*.
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#200
#200
BigZiti09 said:
You're wrong. I didn't criticize that move. We had to have bodies.

You are wrong. I invite you to search for it. Please do.

Here's some posts I found that I made dating back to December 2012....
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Here's a post of yours today, if he doesn't follow this script then you should be critical....if you don't change your criteria at least...

I don't want to see us take 6 freshmen at this point. If we fill all 6 spots, I hope to see 2 frosh, 2 juco, 2 senior transfers. I don't want to see us clog up the roster with kids that can't play.
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If he takes Owens next week, and we pull Cofer's offer, that deserves criticism IMO. Cofer is better than McGhee, no?
 
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