Ukraine Protests

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#2,026
#2,026
Grand Vol said:
The whole principle depends greatly on a Berlin-Moscow alliance. And let me tell you, there is a lot of historical animosity between those two countries that goes way past the last world war. Germans and Russians just don't like each other. And to a lesser degree, French and Germans don't get along that great either. While Europe has tried to become this huggy lovey union of equals, nationalistic trends do continue in the nations represented.

It's an interesting article, but completely fails to recognize the reality of the nations involved. I could not see the three forming an "alliance" based in principle of countering the US due to the extreme dislike of each other to begin with.
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When in doubt, always try to determine what the lowest common denominator is. In this case, for France and Germany, at least, it's the US. Plain and simple. And that won't change for a while, provided unforeseeable events don't alter the present state of things.
 
#2,027
#2,027
volprof said:
CNN reporting that the results are finally in. Apparently, the decision to join Russia won with roughly 90% of the vote. Seems legit.
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Sounds like the same results that had 100% of the vote in some districts going to Obama.

Nothing to see here, move along.
 
#2,028
#2,028
volprof said:
When in doubt, always try to determine what the lowest common denominator is. In this case, for France and Germany, at least, it's the US. Plain and simple. And that won't change for a while, provided unforeseeable events don't alter the present state of things.
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Perhaps, but the article revolved around the singular comments from Nuland as the implication that it's the US stance on the matter and this is the divisive position between the US and the EU. How many times in our history have political figures made statements that weren't necessarily in line with official US policy?

I'm not doubting the comments were made and perhaps, a minute chance, that they were the unofficial policy. But considering the source of the article and being that Al Jazeera is pretty much a cornerstone in the "I hate America" club, I give the article little credibility at being anywhere accurate.
 
#2,029
#2,029
FLVOL_79 said:
Because nukes haven't been used enough. We only nuked the country that attacked us first. If we proactively nuked other countries the deterrent would be more effective. It's like spraying your yard for pests. You have to do it a couple of times to get rid of the pests and for the product to act as a deterrent.
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I can't knock you on this opinion because I think I toyed around with it about 10 years ago. But I've since gotten older and seen a bit more to make me realize this is a very flawed tactic.
 
#2,031
#2,031
Rasputin_Vol said:
I can't knock you on this opinion because I think I toyed around with it about 10 years ago. But I've since gotten older and seen a bit more to make me realize this is a very flawed tactic.
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Meh, nuke a couple of countries and the rest fall into line.

I mean, had we nuked Afghanistan in the mid 90s, would anyone have known or cared?
 
#2,032
#2,032
volprof said:
I agree, which is why I provided my caveat before the link. That's quite a bit of wild speculation. Despite Nuland's actions, I think US-European relations are in great shape. Honestly, they've probably never been in better shape, because it's not just Western Europe now but much of Eastern Europe as well that we have solid working relationships with.
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Now that is where I disagree. Germany could very easily cooperate with Russia. But I don't see China breaking away from Russia to unite with the US and Japan. The US and Japan will just be allowed to waste away as their economies implode.
 
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#2,034
#2,034
Rasputin_Vol said:
Now that is where I disagree. Germany could very easily cooperate with Russia. But I don't see China breaking away from Russia to unite with the US and Japan. The US and Japan will just be allowed to waste away as their economies implode.
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Again, you have no clue about the animosity between the German and Russian peoples.

If Merkel was to suggest such a thing, she would be tossed out on her ear. Even if she was to enter negotiations, the Bundestag would never go along with it.
 
#2,035
#2,035
What's all this nuke them or nuke that noise in here? Nuking any country without a good reason to do so would make us an international pariah. And Russia and China would come in to take our place as the world's police force. Our trade relations would be severely strained.
 
#2,037
#2,037
volprof said:
What's all this nuke them or nuke that noise in here? Nuking any country without a good reason to do so would make us an international pariah. And Russia and China would come in to take our place as the world's police force. Our trade relations would be severely strained.
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'Cause 'Murica, that's why.
 
#2,040
#2,040
Crimea's regional government will make a formal application on Monday to join the Russian Federation, Mr Aksyonov says in a tweet. "The Supreme Soviet of Crimea will make an official application for the republic to join the Russian Federation at a meeting on March 17."
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Um, Supreme Soviet? Did we step into a time warp?
 
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#2,048
#2,048
Velo Vol said:
Still?

Last week Merkel used much stronger rhetoric against Russia. I wonder what accounted for the apparent change?
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My point. Some posters on here somehow believe that a great Russian-German-French troika will emerge to displace the US as a world power and ignore the realities of the situation, namely the hatred between two of the three and the fact the article came from Al Jazeera.
 
#2,049
#2,049
Gramps said:
Not surprised at all. You think Obama will draw another moving imaginary line in the sand ?
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Don't know. The curious part in this is the fact the Crimea is still landlocked away from Russia and will depend on the Ukraine for transportation, electricity, just about everything.
 
#2,050
#2,050
Grand Vol said:
Don't know. The curious part in this is the fact the Crimea is still landlocked away from Russia and will depend on the Ukraine for transportation, electricity, just about everything.
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Which is why we'll probably see more "Kherson-like" incursions over the next week or so. I'll be honest, I was optimistic, but I don't see how this doesn't result in a war. On the one hand, I don't think Ukraine wants to stomach a conflict with Russia, but, on the other hand, asking Ukraine to keep supplying the Crimea with electricity, oil, gas, and other commodities, seems a bit far fetched. This isn't going to end well.
 
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