Ukraine Protests

[IBlvNTmWrk]

It looks like a step in the process to me OB, including his reference to "the national security and foreign policy of the United States". I wouldn't necessarily consider this another "line in the sand" comment, but more an executive order that puts others on alert (including our own government) that given the current situation the use of force is indeed an option.

 

[Burhead]

I don't know. I assume he is as well, but it's very open ended. The EO " includes" that as such as Putin.


Persons- is this to include businesses? Are other country's considered "businesses"?

find that the actions and policies of persons — including persons who have asserted governmental authority in the Crimean region without the authorization of the Government of Ukraine — that undermine democratic processes and institutions in Ukraine;

Putin isn't included; targeting the Russian oligarchy system mostly.

 

[Velo Vol]

Fair and balanced referendum billboard in Crimea.

This should resolve things, since American weakness is the problem in the region, right?


Ukraine PM says he will go to U.S. to discuss Crimea crisis | Reuters

 

[Velo Vol]

Putin, hurry up and fix all the problems that Obama has caused in the world!

 

[volprof]

Fair and balanced referendum billboard in Crimea.

This should resolve things, since American weakness is the problem in the region, right?


Ukraine PM says he will go to U.S. to discuss Crimea crisis | Reuters

I know I should probably just keep my mouth shut, because the people of the Ukraine and Crimea have memories of actually having to put up with Hitler's bull****, but I feel like it's time we all moved beyond naive Hitler and the Nazis comparisons for our political rhetoric. Godwin's law is basically right, at least as applied to an Internet forum and to politics at large.

 

[Velo Vol]

On Zakaria GPS they had on Stephen Kotkin from Princeton who posited that the EU was "bluffing" when it was making expansion overtures to Ukraine. That it really wasn't serious about the eastward expansion.

Anyone read anything suggesting this is true?

On one level, it might make sense, because Ukraine's economy is a mess, so why bring it into your fold? But what would be the point of leading Ukraine/Russia on like that?

 

[volprof]

On Zakaria GPS they had on Stephen Kotkin from Princeton who posited that the EU was "bluffing" when it was making expansion overtures to Ukraine. That it really wasn't serious about the eastward expansion.

Anyone read anything suggesting this is true?

On one level, it might make sense, because Ukraine's economy is a mess, so why bring it into your fold? But what would be the point of leading Ukraine/Russia on like that?

Yeah, I watched the show as well. (Love me some Fareed.) I've not encountered any articles that suggest this either, although Kotkin made a good point I hadn't even thought about: why would the EU want an economy that is apparently below its 1991 level? In the interim, Poland has nearly doubled its economy, according to Kotkin. Why would the EU want UKraine? Seems like it would only weaken the value of the Euro and the strength of the EU market.

But to the point of your statement, why would the EU bluff? I have no clue. It's a good question to ask though.

 

[DC_Vol]

Fair and balanced referendum billboard in Crimea.

This should resolve things, since American weakness is the problem in the region, right?


Ukraine PM says he will go to U.S. to discuss Crimea crisis | Reuters

:blink: huh??

 

[volprof]

:blink: huh??

I think Velo is simply saying that this particular region's problems extend far beyond concerns about American power and foreign diplomacy.

But I'll let Velo speak for himself.

 

[volprof]

And on another note, Cyrillic is stupid, because I can't read it.

 

[DC_Vol]

And on another note, Cyrillic is stupid, because I can't read it.

The sign says, March 16th we choose...and the word in between the pictures is "or"

 

[volprof]

The sign says, March 16th we choose...and the word in between the pictures is "or"

Damn, dude! Where did you get your degree in Russian studies?

 

[volprof]

I could make out something that I gleaned was 16 March and maybe the last word being something again to a "referendum."

As different as it is, it's still a good ole' Indo-European language, so I will allow it.

 

[Velo Vol]

Yeah, I watched the show as well. (Love me some Fareed.) I've not encountered any articles that suggest this either, although Kotkin made a good point I hadn't even thought about: why would the EU want an economy that is apparently below its 1991 level? In the interim, Poland has nearly doubled its economy, according to Kotkin. Why would the EU want UKraine? Seems like it would only weaken the value of the Euro and the strength of the EU market

The other panelist suggested the EU orchestrated the government collapse.

This is my favorite Cyrillic letter: Ж

Otherwise, in Cyrillic I've only managed to "read" the tombstone of my great, great grandparents, Ukrainian emigrants to Alberta

 

[DC_Vol]

The other panelist suggested the EU orchestrated the government collapse.

This is my favorite Cyrillic letter: Ж

Otherwise, in Cyrillic I've only managed to "read" the tombstone of my great, great grandparents, Ukrainian emigrants to Alberta

That's pretty cool stuff there. Great name, too.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Nice...

 

[volprof]

Nice...

You found "peace for our time," Rasputin?

 

[Grand Vol]

The Ukrainians are screwed, Russia has entire divisions of Batman on their side:

 

[Velo Vol]

That's pretty cool stuff there. Great name, too.

You appear to have some knowledge of the language. How similar is Ukrainian to Russian? I have no idea.

 

[Velo Vol]

Another confusing cultural dynamic (which I'm surprised hasn't come up in the news coverage) is religion.

There's Greek Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, and a few other variants all practiced in the area.

During the Kyiv uprisings, one would frequently see pictures of priests on the scene, but I never got a sense what, if any role, the churches were playing in the conflict.

 

[Grand Vol]

Another confusing cultural dynamic (which I'm surprised hasn't come up in the news coverage) is religion.

There's Greek Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, and a few other variants all practiced in the area.

During the Kyiv uprisings, one would frequently see pictures of priests on the scene, but I never got a sense what, if any role, the churches were playing in the conflict.

I think (not entirely positive) all those churches defer to the Eastern Orthodox patriarch. And I don't think the Orthodox churches has taken an official stance in the matter other than relief and that was probably on a local level.

 

[volprof]

The Tatars are Muslim and assume a sizable proportion of the population in Crimea and the Ukraine as well. If religion will play a role in any of this dispute, I'd place my money more on the tension between the Tatar minority and the dominant ethnic Russians in Crimea.

 

[Burhead]

The Tatars are Muslim and assume a sizable proportion of the population in Crimea and the Ukraine as well. If religion will play a role in any of this dispute, I'd place my money more on the tension between the Tatar minority and the dominant ethnic Russians in Crimea.

The pro-Russian militias have been marking Tatar homes in Crimea and there have been reports of some Tatars leaving/being deported. It doesn't look good, that's how ethnic cleansing starts.

 

[volprof]

The pro-Russian militias have been marking Tatar homes in Crimea and there have been reports of some Tatars leaving/being deported. It doesn't look good, that's how ethnic cleansing starts.

There's a sizable Tatar population in Russia as well (hell, Marat Safin, the tennis player and Russian politician, is Tatar). That could get really nasty. I don't think that's something that people want to get started over there, no matter how much they may despise one another. Then again, as you well know from reading this forum, people don't always think or act rationally. Just takes that one spark.

 

[Velo Vol]

I think (not entirely positive) all those churches defer to the Eastern Orthodox patriarch. And I don't think the Orthodox churches has taken an official stance in the matter other than relief and that was probably on a local level.

Don't know antyhing about them, but Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kyivan Patriarchate has a different head than the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate).