Ukraine Protests

[Grand Vol]

Effective?

He spent eight times more than Vancouver spent for the winter Olympic games, much of which went to corrupt cronies.

This is the kind of leadership America needs?

You understand the irony of your corrupt cronies comment don't you? An American complaining about wasteful spending and corruption on the part of Russian government officials is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[utvolpj]

The point could be made that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Oman, etc are only relevant on the international stage because of their dead dinos. Let's face it, without oil most of them would still be running around the desert fighting over the nearest oasis if it wasn't for the petrodollar.

Russia is different in that regard with or without Putin at the helm.

Russia spends on their military. SA actually has the strongest military to use at their leisure. Which one is smarter?

 

[Velo Vol]

You understand the irony of your corrupt cronies comment don't you? An American complaining about wasteful spending and corruption on the part of Russian government officials is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black.

Russia makes what goes on here look like an A-minor league baseball team compared to MLB.

 

[Velo Vol]

Are these Russia ships floating outside their prescribed routes in Crimea being piloted by volunteer militia?

 

[Grand Vol]

Russia spends on their military. SA actually has the strongest military to use at their leisure. Which one is smarter?

I would say has the military. While it's a far cry from the rompin, stompin Red Army of past, it still is fairly formidable. Modernization is happening and they are actually adopting more of a higher tech, lower numbers way of doing business that is contrary to the doctrine of the Cold War.

I wouldn't take the lessons of Chechnya and Afghanistan to heart that much. Neither were wars the Russians were used to fighting. Same could be said of the way we are fighting in Afghanistan these days.

 

[Grand Vol]

Russia makes what goes on here look like an A-minor league baseball team compared to MLB.

I actually prefer those minor league teams myself. Tickets are easy to come by, good play and the hot dogs and beer are way cheaper.

Difference being in the corruption there and here? The corruption money is funneled through lobbyists into "reelection campaigns." Theirs is just slightly more overt and eliminates the middle men.

 

[FLVOL69]

Russia spends on their military. SA actually has the strongest military to use at their leisure. Which one is smarter?

What's wrong buddy? Can't stand a little criticism.. Everyone on this board has their own unique style of posting comments. You really should see someone about those anger issues of yours.Im not on my ass behind a screen like you or lg, I post on my phone between clients when I have the chance . It's amazing you have so much free time to hassle fellow posters.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

If Obama really wants to get Putin's goat O should secretly somehow sign Putin up for ObamaCare.....that should show Putin not to be messing with the leader of America.

 

[Velo Vol]

Part of the reason Germany doesn't want to make a big fuss over this.

UK doesn't want to lose Russian money in its banks.

 

[FLVOL69]

If Obama really wants to get Putin's goat O should secretly somehow sign Putin up for ObamaCare.....that should show Putin not to be messing with the leader of America.

It would crash their economy, problem solved. Well done WTN

 

[Velo Vol]

A good read on the West's problem vs. Russia in Eastern Europe: Strategic Ambiguity

Ukraine and the Failure of Strategic Ambiguity

For the last two decades, the corollary to giving Russia a "voice without a veto" in Euro-Atlantic security affairs has been to offer Russia's neighbors a "pledge without power"--to make promises which appear to convey binding security guarantees but without creating the mechanisms for their enforcement.

 

[volinbham]

More interesting analysis from Walter Russell Mead along with a reason article discussing the naivety of both the current FP as well as the NeoCon FP

Putin Smashes Washington’s Cocoon - The American Interest

Reject Naive Foreign Policy, Whatever Its Source

I found this comment from the latter article particularly apt

Mead’s parenthetical stings: imagine for a moment how much more effective Obama would be if he treated Putin the way he treats Republicans in Washington, where he seems to be far more “hard-nosed”. He approaches negotiation with the GOP as a direct threat to his power to do whatever he wants – but on the world stage, he sees a collection of nation-states standing at the ready to ditch their long-held priorities in favor of a new reality of ongoing dialogue.

 

[Dave1967]

are you ever going to add anything to this forum? Posting pics and making clever names for the President gets pretty old

Obummer deserves all the derision that he gets.

 

[volinbham]

A good read on the West's problem vs. Russia in Eastern Europe: Strategic Ambiguity

Ukraine and the Failure of Strategic Ambiguity

Hold up a minute - so now you are agreeing that the FP directed towards Russia over a period of time does directly impact Putin's actions currently?

 

[lawgator1]

More interesting analysis from Walter Russell Mead along with a reason article discussing the naivety of both the current FP as well as the NeoCon FP

Putin Smashes Washington’s Cocoon - The American Interest

Reject Naive Foreign Policy, Whatever Its Source

I found this comment from the latter article particularly apt

Jesus Christ that's some rank idiocy to compare how a POTUS is going to deal with a nuclear power in foreign policy versus the usual push and pull of domestic politics. I mean, really, utterly stupid.

 

[Weezy]

One has an army.

 

[Velo Vol]

Hold up a minute - so now you are agreeing that the FP directed towards Russia over a period of time does directly impact Putin's actions currently?

I may have overstated the case a bit, but what I'm saying is that given the current political landscape, the president doesn't have much at his disposal to keep Russia out of Crimea. This is due to (1) the nature of the region [a pro-Russian territory], and (2) Putin's paranoia of the West.

Giving tougher-sounding speeches isn't going to cut it.

Sure, if you want to go back far enough and change the facts, we might be in a different place today. If Obama had gotten Ukraine to join NATO in 2009, or if he could have found alternative energy sources for all Europe, or he had been whipping the American public up into a war fervor for the past four years, then maybe Putin would recoil at our threats.

But that's not the world we face today.

 

[Dave1967]

Jesus Christ that's some rank idiocy to compare how a POTUS is going to deal with a nuclear power in foreign policy versus the usual push and pull of domestic politics. I mean, really, utterly stupid.

Obama is the most likely the most foreign policy illiterate President that the US has ever had.

 

[volprof]

Obama is the most likely the most foreign policy illiterate President that the US has ever had.

Obama is no foreign policy genius but he's the most internationally illiterate president we've had since Bush the Second.

 

[volprof]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/ukraine.html

Article on EU and American pledge to funnel somewhere around 15 billion into the Ukrainian economy over the next two years. Most of the costs fronted by the EU.

 

[MG1968]

Obama is no foreign policy genius but he's the most internationally illiterate president we've had since Bush the Second.

Bush at least surrounded himself with people who knew a little bit about foreign policy. Obama surrounded himself with fellow university professors and yes-men.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

Saw some very disturbing footage today. Why are there pro-Russia Ukranians? What do they think they stand to gain?

Why are there pro-Mexico Americans? :unsure:

A court just ruled that schools can ban the display of the American flag as it might offend students of non-American heritage?

 

[volinbham]

I may have overstated the case a bit, but what I'm saying is that given the current political landscape, the president doesn't have much at his disposal to keep Russia out of Crimea. This is due to (1) the nature of the region [a pro-Russian territory], and (2) Putin's paranoia of the West.

Giving tougher-sounding speeches isn't going to cut it.

Sure, if you want to go back far enough and change the facts, we might be in a different place today. If Obama had gotten Ukraine to join NATO in 2009, or if he could have found alternative energy sources for all Europe, or he had been whipping the American public up into a war fervor for the past four years, then maybe Putin would recoil at our threats.

But that's not the world we face today.

I think then we are saying the same thing - we are limited in options today because of how we've behaved for the last many yesterdays. I've never claimed we can have much impact now - only that Putin has acted based on what he's seen from us over the last several years.

 

[volinbham]

Jesus Christ that's some rank idiocy to compare how a POTUS is going to deal with a nuclear power in foreign policy versus the usual push and pull of domestic politics. I mean, really, utterly stupid.

Not surprised you didn't understand the author's point.

 

[KentheOrange]

The point could be made that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Oman, etc are only relevant on the international stage because of their dead dinos. Let's face it, without oil most of them would still be running around the desert fighting over the nearest oasis if it wasn't for the petrodollar.

Russia is different in that regard with or without Putin at the helm.

Nope. Dead dinos are the only thing keeping the Russian economy alive.