Even More Obamacare Follies

#376
#376
MG1968 said:
in other words, you subsidize your employees health insurance premiums to the tune of $500/month

who is going to be subsidizing the bronze and silver plan in Florida?
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Combination of sources, you know that. But of course the plan we have for them is better than the silver plan. I'd have to compare it to the others, and just haven't yet.
 
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#378
#378
lawgator1 said:
Combination of sources, you know that. But of course the plan we have for them is better than the silver plan. I'd have to compare it to the others, and just haven't yet.
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combination of sources = taxpayer dollars

right?
 
#380
#380
utvolpj said:
I pay $303.14 for myself and 2 kids (well 1 kid and soon to be another). I've been sick and had 2 surgeries + physical therapy and can assure you mine is not stripped down. People at my company making less than I do pay less than that for the same thing. Any claim that this stuff is not already available to many is bunk
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Same here. I pay $89 a month. That's the premium plan. There's a cheaper one where the coverage % is less.

For mine that's a $25 copay for regular doctors. $50 for specialists. No deductible for visits. X-rays included in copay. Physical/speech/mental therapy is $25 copay also.

Deductible is $500. After deductible I pay 15%. 85% is covered by insurance. That's surgeries, mri, ct, ect. Out of pocket max is $8000, then insurance covers 100%.

Or at least that's what it was. Starting next year it's changing due to Obamacare. There is no more copay. Deductible is going up significantly. Specialists now require meeting the deductible before insurance coverage kicks in. I'm about to have an mri on my shoulder, and I'm making sure I do it before the new plan takes over.

They listed required additional fees of more than 55 million dollars being paid to the govt due to the affordable healthcare act as what initiated this.

I feel bad for the families with children that require routine or frequent medical treatment. They're getting screwed bigtime by this.

Several of my friends had insurance coverage they liked before this, and are griping at what's being forced on them.
 
#384
#384
MG1968 said:
combination of sources = taxpayer dollars

right?
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You don't get it, do you? You don't understand why this idea was championed by various GOPers for over a decade.

Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.

Its win-win for the American taxpayers.
 
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#385
#385
lawgator1 said:
You don't get it, do you? You don't understand why this idea was championed by various GOPers for over a decade.

Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.

Its win-win for the American taxpayers.
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the "indigent" will still not be paying anything
 
#386
#386
lawgator1 said:
Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.
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What happened to "if you like your current insurance plan you can keep it"?

I like my current insurance plan, but certainly can't keep it. I'll be paying much more for less coverage with higher deductibles.
 
#387
#387
lawgator1 said:
You don't get it, do you? You don't understand why this idea was championed by various GOPers for over a decade.

Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.

Its win-win for the American taxpayers.
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If they qualify for EITC or many if the other government entitlements they STILL will not be paying anything! The 100k and above earners will still be footing the bills, the bills will just be much larger.
 
#388
#388
lawgator1 said:
You don't get it, do you? You don't understand why this idea was championed by various GOPers for over a decade.

Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.

Its win-win for the American taxpayers.
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I do get it and I don't give a rat's ass if the individual mandate was a GOP thought exercise 20 years ago.

You improve the market by enacting market-based solutions. You remove barriers to selling insurance across state lines. You offer a la cart pricing so you can buy custom coverage (I don't need mammograms and well-baby visits, but my current plan covers them anyway, adding to my cost). You encourage healthy choices, but don't mandate them. You enact tort reform.

The difference between us is that you bask in the glory of the all-powerful state's ability to eventually force everybody into a single-payor system. I prefer to err on the side of individual freedom.
 
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#389
#389
MG1968 said:
You improve the market by enacting market-based solutions. You remove barriers to selling insurance across state lines. You offer a la cart pricing so you can buy custom coverage (I don't need mammograms and well-baby visits, but my current plan covers them anyway, adding to my cost). You encourage healthy choices, but don't mandate them. You enact tort reform.
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All opposed by the GOP based on the paychecks of their lobbyist masters.
 
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#391
#391
lawgator1 said:
All opposed by the GOP based on the paychecks of their lobbyist masters.
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MG1968 said:
hey, counselor, I don't know if you've noticed, but nobody here is exactly giving the GOP a pass when it comes to who caused the mess we're currently in. If you want to continue to defend your breathless endorsement of Obamacare, go right ahead, but stop using strawman arguments to make your case.
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so because part of this mess is the GOP's fault, the only solution is Obamacare?
 
#392
#392
lawgator1 said:
All opposed by the GOP based on the paychecks of their lobbyist masters.
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good grief, why must you make everything about Dems Vs Repubs? Bad ideas are bad ideas no matter who proposed them. If you were truly interested in fixing this system you wouldn't be championing Obamacare like you're Barack's illegitimate kid. Try thinking for yourself and put down the Dem talking points. This is a terrible system that was forced on us by people who never read it to begin with
 
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#393
#393
lawgator1 said:
You don't get it, do you? You don't understand why this idea was championed by various GOPers for over a decade.

Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.

Its win-win for the American taxpayers.
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Lots of theory and assumption here.

It is a grand assumption that the vast increase in care experienced by adding 30 million people to insurance will be less expensive than the proportion of that 30 million that sought ER-based care. Of course it all depends on the proportion.

Next we have the inevitable rationing that will occur as relatively fixed supply meets significantly increased demand. Guess what - that will push people back to the ER-based care model mitigating some of those savings.

The front-end/back-end depends on the extent to which people utilize preventative and early care. There is considerable evidence to suggest that it won't occur and presents a unrealistic behavior change on the part of people who typically don't seek care until later disease states.

So in the end, in theory adding 30 million to the insurance rolls could bend the cost curve but there is a long way between theory and reality.
 
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#394
#394
#395
#395
volinbham said:
Lots of theory and assumption here.

It is a grand assumption that the vast increase in care experienced by adding 30 million people to insurance will be less expensive than the proportion of that 30 million that sought ER-based care. Of course it all depends on the proportion.

Next we have the inevitable rationing that will occur as relatively fixed supply meets significantly increased demand. Guess what - that will push people back to the ER-based care model mitigating some of those savings.

The front-end/back-end depends on the extent to which people utilize preventative and early care. There is considerable evidence to suggest that it won't occur and presents a unrealistic behavior change on the part of people who typically don't seek care until later disease states.

So in the end, in theory adding 30 million to the insurance rolls could bend the cost curve but there is a long way between theory and reality.
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Amazing, isn't it?
 
#397
#397
utvolpj said:
good grief, why must you make everything about Dems Vs Repubs? Bad ideas are bad ideas no matter who proposed them. If you were truly interested in fixing this system you wouldn't be championing Obamacare like you're Barack's illegitimate kid. Try thinking for yourself and put down the Dem talking points. This is a terrible system that was forced on us by people who never read it to begin with
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.........and then after they read the bill, which is Law now, knowing it's a piece of BS & a train wreck they opted out of it. They want NO part of this BS health care law for themselves. Go ahead & get the thing started. People will vote Dems out right & left once they see & feel the pain of paying for this & learn about what's going on.
 
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#398
#398
lawgator1 said:
You don't get it, do you? You don't understand why this idea was championed by various GOPers for over a decade.

Those of us who do have insurance, and those of us who pay taxes that go to indigent care, currently pay for ALL of the health care costs for those who do not have insurance. At least now everyone will be paying something so as to have insurance. Plus, those now covered will be getting far cheaper care on the front end, rather than the most expensive care on the back end.

Its win-win for the American taxpayers.
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So where does the government get its money? In addition, you've perpetrated this lie for some time now (this is the GOPs brainchild). That is not the case. The idea has been floated by various conservative and libertarian-leaning think tanks. The individual mandate has never been a part of the official GOP platform. Now, real health care reform -- say, tort reform, health savings accounts, and competition across state lines -- has been something the GOP has discussed as a matter of policy because these are the only way to address rising costs and quality of care.

As every study with Medicaid has shown, simply having insurance doesn't improve access to quality care and better health outcomes.
 
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#399
#399
Volst53 said:
My family will be loosing our health care on 2016 due to obamacare. We'll have to pick up one of the offered plans through ACA. Happy times.
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Wait, that can't be true. Obama said that you could keep your health insurance. That would make him a liar.

/sarcasm
 
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#400
#400
hog88 said:
Did the insurance companies lobby the GOP for ACA passage?
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That bill never makes it to Obumbler's desk without his daddies in the insurance and pharmaceutical companies giving their blessing. I suppose LG is blinded by his homerism.
 
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