Da Reds thread

#9,876
#9,876
Vols4us said:
Why don't you calculate it since the injury instead of going back to the time when he deserved the acolades and to bat third. Current trends are all that matters for winning now. Until today this team was averaging like .249 with only two guys above .270. One of those guys being paid $20+ million is now a singles hitter and the king of walks. They can no longer depend on HR's to drive run production. Bruce is the only true power hitter on the team until Luddy comes back in August. When JV's sitting at 40 RBI's and BP and JB are on either side of 60 it jumps out at you that JV needs to be a table setter with Choo.

Cozart needs to take a powder. He's hitting like a girl.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. Since when does have a .200 ISO average and a .520 slugging percentage make someone a singles hitter?
 
#9,877
#9,877
This thread is great..

Brando Phillips is better than Joey Votto!

The division race is over!

Joey Votto doesn't deserve his contract!

Joey Votto is a table-setting singles hitter!

RBIs!!
 
#9,878
#9,878
TBrown said:
This thread is great..

Brando Phillips is better than Joey Votto!

The division race is over!

Joey Votto doesn't deserve his contract!

Joey Votto is a table-setting singles hitter!

RBIs!!
Click to expand...

If Reds fans don't want him, I know a prettier shade of red that would welcome him.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#9,883
#9,883
zjcvols said:
I'm sorry. Since when does have a .200 ISO average and a .520 slugging percentage make someone a singles hitter?
Click to expand...

What do your eyes tell you he is doing? Do you even watch the games? I watch every televised game and go to a few others. How long was it between extra base hits and HR's in the last 10-20 games, genius? How many doubles/HR's did he hit last season after the injury compared to before the injury? Still 4th on the team in RBI's hitting third. He's even behind a .240 hitter that has 46 less AB's. That while hitting 3rd in the order.

You are actually making my case with your reference. Total number of bases excluding walks being high with RBI's being low tells you exactly what I have been telling you. If you go with OBP it gets even more pointed about what I am telling you.

Those wonderful stats you like of his are fine for a guy making half or less of what he is making and batting 5th in the order. His D is also getting far worse, not better.
 
Last edited:
#9,884
#9,884
There are a lot of western teams that would love to have him. A couple of them also have real managers that would get his attention. Dusty can't. Make that trade. After the Griffey albatross I thought they would have learned a valuable lesson. They didn't.
 
#9,886
#9,886
An actual argument over whether Joey Votto is worth it right now is not what I expected to see in the Reds thread tonight. Man.
 
#9,887
#9,887
Vols4us said:
What do your eyes tell you he is doing? Do you even watch the games? I watch every televised game and go to a few others. How long was it between extra base hits and HR's in the last 10-20 games, genius? How many doubles/HR's did he hit last season after the injury compared to before the injury? Still 4th on the team in RBI's hitting third. He's even behind a .240 hitter that has 46 less AB's. That while hitting 3rd in the order.

You are actually making my case with your reference. Total number of bases excluding walks being high with RBI's being low tells you exactly what I have been telling you. If you go with OBP it gets even more pointed about what I am telling you.

Those wonderful stats you like of his are fine for a guy making half or less of what he is making and batting 5th in the order. His D is also getting far worse, not better.
Click to expand...

1) People go in slumps.

2) Of course it takes time to come back from an injury like Votto's. He's still got a .200 ISO power. And with his elite defense and the best on base skills in the game, he's easily still worth his contract.

3) And Joey Votto, right now, is fifth in runs created. RBI's are an arbitrary stat. He's top 20 in WAR and on pace for close to a 6 WAR year, which is exactly what he should be getting paid for, and should be higher but is brought down because of his average base running and low UZR. He's top 15 in offensive WAR this year. Votto is easily worth his contract.

Also, the Reds ain't broke. They gave Phillips a big contract. And gave Broxton $24M to be their set up man.
 
#9,888
#9,888
zjcvols said:
1) People go in slumps.

2) Of course it takes time to come back from an injury like Votto's. He's still got a .200 ISO power. And with his elite defense and the best on base skills in the game, he's easily still worth his contract.

3) And Joey Votto, right now, is fifth in runs created. RBI's are an arbitrary stat. He's top 20 in WAR and on pace for close to a 6 WAR year, which is exactly what he should be getting paid for, and should be higher but is brought down because of his average base running and low UZR. He's top 15 in offensive WAR this year. Votto is easily worth his contract.

Also, the Reds ain't broke. They gave Phillips a big contract. And gave Broxton $24M to be their set up man.
Click to expand...

The back half of that contract could easily be a disaster, now that we're back to expecting players to age and decline at an historically normal rate. But that's what medium-market teams have to offer to get guys like Votto to forgo the FA market. I have no idea what the Reds' TV situation is, or how easily might be able to absorb a bad contract when Votto hits his late 30s. But the idea that he's not worth it already is sort of crazy.
 
#9,890
#9,890
Reds will go into this weekend with a better record than last year. I have my doubts about the bullpen but hard to argue with results. Joey Votto's contract sent a message to me as a life long Reds fan that the front office is serious about winning. Votto is a great player, very glad he decided to stay.
 
#9,893
#9,893
zjcvols said:
1) People go in slumps.

2) Of course it takes time to come back from an injury like Votto's. He's still got a .200 ISO power. And with his elite defense and the best on base skills in the game, he's easily still worth his contract.

3) And Joey Votto, right now, is fifth in runs created. RBI's are an arbitrary stat. He's top 20 in WAR and on pace for close to a 6 WAR year, which is exactly what he should be getting paid for, and should be higher but is brought down because of his average base running and low UZR. He's top 15 in offensive WAR this year. Votto is easily worth his contract.

Also, the Reds ain't broke. They gave Phillips a big contract. And gave Broxton $24M to be their set up man.
Click to expand...

Did you really just say those things in bold? Wow. Votto has officially nearly double the errors of last season in the first half of this season and has been brain dead on more defensive plays this season than in his whole career. Now I also learn that RBI's are just an arbitrary stat like any other. So have they changed the batting triple crown to WAR or SLG or OBP or whatever? Have I missed something? Better yet, has baseball missed something over the past 100+ years? Tell that silliness to the pitchers that lose one run games that cost them millions of dollars and numerous wins because somebody failed to knock in a run or two.

Maybe Joey can use those awesome stats to help him get a base hit to knock in at least one run to tie or win a game against a bad team like the Brewers or Mariners or whoever. You know, a return on a major investment. That may be asking too much of him since RBI's are not all that important anymore. lol. It is far better to be a show pony batting in the third spot in the order. Joey Votto should be batting second. Hits, walks, HBP are in Choo's range. He has limited power at this point due to the injury or his head. Even Choo is within just 3 HR's of Votto hitting from the lead off spot. Have Votto move the lead off guy along and score some runs. But then no sane team pays a #2 over $20 mill per year for 10-12 years do they?

Phillips has 61 RBI's this season and has batted in the top 5 spots in the order whenever he is needed throughout his career. He does whatever he is asked to do. He is a natural #2 and the best fielding second baseman in the game. He deserves the money. So should it be with Votto. He should be moved to a spot in the order that helps the team more until/if his power and RBI (yes) returns. Broxton's contract was a travesty, but has enabled him to eat buckets of KFC every night and drink all the Hudepohl's he can hold. He is at least good for a laugh as he burps and ambles out of the pen in a David Wells sort of way.

Check out what the Reds made last year in a hot season when everybody thought they had a shot at the WS. Check out where they will be when the train runs off the tracks. Watch how fast Walt can make deals and unload some of those contracts. There is no wiggle room in the cash flow in Cinci. Never has been. They can handle one off year, the next year better be good or they will unload some payroll. You get better value when everybody is least expecting it and the perception is at its highest point.
 
#9,895
#9,895
0 for 4 imagine that. this team is very average right now. good luck to beef and the bucs because that is the central.
 
#9,896
#9,896
Still waiting for the stat guys to show up and explain just how good this team is. Sub .250 batting average on the line-up card night in and night out. Score 3 runs in 2 games against the Brew Crew?! lol. Slump, that's it, a slump. I guess Dusty has been in a slump for a couple of decades now. Has a stiff with a .233 average in the 2 spot nearly every night. Absolute frickin' genius. At least put Leake in the everyday line up so you can add a live bat. Maybe he can play LF, 3rd or SS. lol.
 
#9,897
#9,897
Vols4us said:
Still waiting for the stat guys to show up and explain just how good this team is. Sub .250 batting average on the line-up card night in and night out. Score 3 runs in 2 games against the Brew Crew?! lol. Slump, that's it, a slump. I guess Dusty has been in a slump for a couple of decades now. Has a stiff with a .233 average in the 2 spot nearly every night. Absolute frickin' genius. At least put Leake in the everyday line up so you can add a live bat. Maybe he can play LF, 3rd or SS. lol.
Click to expand...

i agree. frazier and cozart look to be busts and we still need a leftfielder. lots of work to do, but atleast the pitching is good, but it doesn't matter when you can't score
 
#9,898
#9,898
so the same guy noting how horrible some of the offense is wants Joey Votto outta town? Right?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top