Cruitin' Forum Football Talk V

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#779
#779
Kingston Vol said:
Thought I'd post this here as well:

Bmoore3vfl: My Hero
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Sitting here at Firestone,getting my work truck inspected...big tears making my face salty...I've cried maybe three times since my Mom died six years ago...this got to me big time...you have to appreciate good people
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#781
#781
butchna said:
Sitting here at Firestone,getting my work truck inspected...big tears making my face salty...I've cried maybe three times since my Mom died six years ago...this got to me big time...you have to appreciate good people
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Sorry for your loss. Both my parents have passed, some times are more difficult than others, funny how you only remember the good. The minds way of healing.
 
#782
#782
StlCardinals2618 said:
How do you know we have more talent than Vandy right now? Stars aside, what position group(besides OL) is better than Vandy? Their freshman Azubike had 4 sacks, that may be more than our whole team last year.

Shula recruited just as well, if not better, than Dooley did while he was here. Saban had 18 returning starters his first year and only won 6 games. You are looking too much into the ranking of a player.
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Saban also went 12-0 in the reg season the next year with Shula's talent that apparently wasnt any good

Azubike had 1 sack in SEC play and that was against UT when UT had nothing to play for and knew their coach was about to get the ax - but seriously 1 sack in SEC play and your acting like none of our guys compare?

also positions where i think we are more talented:

QB
RB (I am counting Lane, they graduated their good back)
LT
RT
C
RG
LG
TE (I am counting Croom here, there FR last year had 8 catches)
WR/slot (i am counting Neal/Pig)
---
DT (couch)
DT (Big dan)
WDE (i am counting CM here - i think he is more talented than azubike)
SDE (i am counting miller/walls here)
MLB
FS
SS

so i would say 16 of the 22 starting positions we are more talented - i don' necessarily think the other 6 go in Vandy's favor though - i just think we don't know what we are going to get yet at WR - CB i would say go in their favor - i would also give them the OLB spots
 
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#784
#784
SCvol333 said:
Saban also went 12-0 in the reg season the next year with Shula's talent that apparently wasnt any good

Azubike had 1 sack in SEC play and that was against UT when UT had nothing to play for and knew their coach was about to get the ax - but seriously 1 sack in SEC play and your acting like none of our guys compare?

also positions where i think we are more talented:

QB
RB (I am counting Lane, they graduated their good back)
LT
RT
C
RG
LG
TE (I am counting Croom here, there FR last year had 8 catches)
WR/slot (i am counting Neal/Pig)
---
DT (couch)
DT (Big dan)
WDE (i am counting CM here - i think he is more talented than azubike)
SDE (i am counting miller/walls here)
MLB
FS
SS

so i would say 16 of the 22 starting positions we are more talented - i don' necessarily think the other 6 go in Vandy's favor though - i just think we don't know what we are going to get yet at WR - CB i would say go in their favor - i would also give them the OLB spots
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Agree. Also we have Downs at TE, who has significant experience and very capable.
 
#785
#785
Ron Swanson said:
Tears.
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Wonderful statement by Byron Moore. A true VFL. I've lost many family and friends to cancer over the years and it's always twice as difficult when it's children. God bless Katelyn Norman's family and the Vol family for losing such a beautiful little girl. Heaven has received a real gift.
 
#786
#786
allvol_12 said:
Ok, without quoting Hubbs, who is gonna magically appear as a pass rusher? Our LB core is awful. Our Corners? They gonna improve that much? We have a good O-line, but the offense may not be pretty.

So yes, I can say that we are not that much more talented. I could care less about the recruiting services. I like being a realist about things.
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It doesn't matter how much speed you have on the back end, if you don't put pressure on the QB you get exposed. Our Dline is being taught to go after the quarterback and not just eat up space. We have athletes on D. I don't understand why everyone thinks we're that awful. This defense will be just fine.
 
#787
#787
zero-sum said:
Sorry for your loss. Both my parents have passed, some times are more difficult than others, funny how you only remember the good. The minds way of healing.
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Thanks for the kind words and sorry for your loss also...I brought up personal loss to illustrate how powerful this story is...I probably should have posted in one of those threads but the link was read in this one. Byron Moore making such a mark on this program....having a 14 year old daughter myself, it's heartening that there is such quality in young people like Byron...I'll never live up to being a Vol fan like Katelyn...shows what is important out there
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#788
#788
StlCardinals2618 said:
I shouldn't of said busts because some of our players could be solid backups or even situational starters. Some players may even wake up this year and show out, but we can't expect the whole team to play like a bunch of 4 stars and win a high amount of games. Some players are having to play because there simply isn't anyone better. It is what it is.

Just go back and look at other schools classes. A good class, you usually get around 6 or 7 starters when they are seniors.

I randomly chose Alabama's 2009 class. Out of that class, 8 **** in that class were busts. The reason it doesn't hurt them is that they signed 18 **** or ***** talent.

Saban is the best talent evaluator for his team in the nation and its not even close, and he was around a 40% success rate when it comes to signing high-end talent. UT won't get to where we need to be until we start recruiting like that.
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What's wrong with the expectation that with proper coaching the majority of these four stars will play like it? Some of you are so accustomed to the down years you can't see anything else. Its sad to live your life without optimism. Makes me wonder if the pessimists ever played a sport.
 
#789
#789
Ron Swanson said:
At the very least we'll be better on D than last year, it would be hard to get worse, no?

I agree with you that our LB core is bad and we haven't had a proven pass rusher but maybe with good coaching those things will improve. Lewis, Maggitt, Jac certainly have the ability to rush the passer. Hopefully they get it done on the field this fall.

Plenty of those guys in the front 7 were really good football players not too long ago and were given rankings, scholarship offers and accolades that proves that. So maybe it's possible with proper coaching and motivation those guys might improve and get the job done.

I think Coleman is a fine corner, he's good enough to start in this league for many teams. Maybe Gray accepts coaching (he certainly has speed) and is the other corner, maybe it's the JUCO kid we signed, he certainly doesn't lack confidence from watching his interviews.

You're assuming guys won't step up and be better because you haven't seen it yet. I'm assuming they'll be much better coached and therefore our D will be better.

We'll find out in the fall...
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I'm wondering one thing, what makes you say Coleman is a fine CB?

His ball skills are ehhhh......
 
#790
#790
The Breakerboy said:
I'm wondering one thing, what makes you say Coleman is a fine CB?

His ball skills are ehhhh......
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I think he's better than the two guys who just graduated. But I'm not going to argue with you on CB's haha. You're the DB guru, not me :hi:

What do you think of Coleman? Who do you think should/will start at CB?
 
#791
#791
Stars are a measurement of raw talent and performance in high school...genetics plus coaching. Once in college, the result of years of effective coaching cannot be understated. If it were strictly a talent issue, then incoming freshmen of higher ratings would constantly be replacing upperclassmen of lower rating. Doesn't happen very often, likely because a 3 star RS senior with 5 years under his belt is physically and mentally far more capable than an incoming 5 star freshman. Although the ceiling on the 5 star guy is likely far higher, he is nowhere near fulfilling his potential coming out of high school, and the less talented but well coached senior is simply more effective on the field.

Which is simply to say that effective coaching matters greatly. Butch is clearly an effective coach, and I predict that our apparently not-so-talented D is going to be surprisingly capable. To suggest that after 6 spring practices we are seeing anything close to what will hit the field in the fall is kinda silly I think. They are still just getting their mind right and it will take quite a bit more time to actually reverse the atrophy.
 
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#792
#792
Kingston Vol said:
Thought I'd post this here as well:

Bmoore3vfl: My Hero
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Got mad respect for BMoore. I also wanna show respect to Marlon Walls. That man was sitting to the left of BMoore the whole time. We got a lot of quality men on this team right now. Proud to say I am a Vol.

That's not because of the product they put on the field, but the work these guys do in the community. If that's what a VFL is, then count me in. #VFL
 
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#793
#793
SCvol333 said:
i don't recall myself, Swanson, st18, or any other of the more optimistic posters projecting 10 wins - i believe we were more saying we do have more talent than vandy and will have the talent edge in at minimum 7 games this year and 7 wins is not crazy to expect

i would also say that i can't remember the last time UT had that many 4 star+ guys at important positions that were upperclassmen - it has been a long time - we keep giving up on 4 star guys b/c they didnt dominate as fresh,soph,juniors (Jsmith and Cmiller really come to mind here) - the fact is that many players don't come into their own until they are a junior-senior

we are now are upper-classmen laden and have a lot of highly rated guys - it is just a different situation than we have been in for prob at least 5 years
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Maybe we should be clear on 7 wins. If 7 wins includes a bowl game, I might agree. If 7 wins is 7 regular season wins, I have a tougher time believing that. We certainly could win 7 regular season games (or more) if we catch some breaks. But there are 5 teams on our schedule next year that are clearly more talented than we are.

That means we either have to upset one (or more) of those 5 or be perfect in our remaining 7 games. I just have a hard time setting that as my baseline expectation. Of the remaining 7, Auburn will equal or exceed in terms of talent. And Missouri on the road should be tough.

(We'll beat the 3 cupcake out of conference teams. And we will beat Kentucky and Vandy. No question. ...until I see the final seconds winding off the clock of a loss to either Vandy or Kentucky, I always believe we can and will beat them.)
 
#794
#794
Ron Swanson said:
I think he's better than the two guys who just graduated. But I'm not going to argue with you on CB's haha. You're the DB guru, not me :hi:

What do you think of Coleman? Who do you think should/will start at CB?
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I agree he's better. But he's far from fine until he starts playing the deep ball. His ball skills or lack thereof scare me. I want to see how Gray progresses. Also I want to see Rihayd Jones in live action. He looks good in the small stuff I've seen but our WRs are bad and I want to see how good he is.
 
#795
#795
The Breakerboy said:
I agree he's better. But he's far from fine until he starts playing the deep ball. His ball skills or lack thereof scare me. I want to see how Gray progresses. Also I want to see Rihayd Jones in live action. He looks good in the small stuff I've seen but our WRs are bad and I want to see how good he is.
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Sounds like Gray is in a bit of the doghouse with the new coaches, per VQ (unless I misread their quote this morning). Said they are trying to get him to bring the same effort everyday and he's struggling to do so at the moment. He's got ability, no doubt. I watched back through the season on ESPN 3 a while back (not sure why I put myself through that). When Gray played, he always seemed to keep up with his man. I assume he got burned in the Troy game because of bad technique. But he was always around the ball. The physical ability to keep up with other receivers seemed to be there (I'm no expert though).
 
#796
#796
vol2002 said:
Maybe we should be clear on 7 wins. If 7 wins includes a bowl game, I might agree. If 7 wins is 7 regular season wins, I have a tougher time believing that. We certainly could win 7 regular season games (or more) if we catch some breaks. But there are 5 teams on our schedule next year that are clearly more talented than we are.

That means we either have to upset one (or more) of those 5 or be perfect in our remaining 7 games. I just have a hard time setting that as my baseline expectation. Of the remaining 7, Auburn will equal or exceed in terms of talent. And Missouri on the road should be tough.

(We'll beat the 3 cupcake out of conference teams. And we will beat Kentucky and Vandy. No question. ...until I see the final seconds winding off the clock of a loss to either Vandy or Kentucky, I always believe we can and will beat them.)
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I'm setting my personal goal for the team (for what that is really worth) at 7-6 (bowl included, but not neccesarily a win). Don't care how they get them.

I also believe that if Butch does what he has become known for, which is winning a game or two he isn't suppose to that 8-5 is a possibility and those who call for 8-5 have an argument based off of that.

JMO though.
 
#797
#797
Breaker correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm like 1,000 percent sure at some point last year on twitter you said Coleman was a future 1st round draft pick.
 
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#798
#798
Coleman has the physical tools, but he had a horrible time turning and tracking the ball on fades. He needs to get a lot better with his back to the QB. Having more confidence from actually getting coached up could help I would think.
 
#799
#799
BaldBiker said:
I'm setting my personal goal for the team (for what that is really worth) at 7-6 (bowl included, but not neccesarily a win). Don't care how they get them.

I also believe that if Butch does what he has become known for, which is winning a game or two he isn't suppose to that 8-5 is a possibility and those who call for 8-5 have an argument based off of that.

JMO though.
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I hear you. 8-5 could happen and in a way, I wouldn't be surprised if it did. What I am arguing is how should we judge CBJ's first year. I say 6-6 in the regular season. If we miss a bowl again, I will begin to worry about him. But with our talent and schedule, I'm not going to say he has to win 7 or 8 regular season games to prove he was the right hire. Muschamp, Saban, and Pete Carrol all were 6 and 6 their first years and they seem to have been the right hires ( at least from a subsequent win-loss standpoint).
 
#800
#800
vol2002 said:
I hear you. 8-5 could happen and in a way, I wouldn't be surprised if it did. What I am arguing is how should we judge CBJ's first year. I say 6-6 in the regular season. If we miss a bowl again, I will begin to worry about him. But with our talent and schedule, I'm not going to say he has to win 7 or 8 regular season games to prove he was the right hire. Muschamp, Saban, and Pete Carrol all were 6 and 6 their first years and they seem to have been the right hires ( at least from a subsequent win-loss standpoint).
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I think we are probably really close in our beliefs. I set what i'm looking for in a personal goal, but it will not affect the way I judge CBJ once the season starts. Truthfully...depending on how other teams improve over the next several months we could in theory have a losing season and still show improvement. I personally don't think that saying 6-6 with a bowl is being underwhelming though.

Pretty much everyone on VN is calling for somewhere between 6 - 6 and 8 - 4 for regular season. To me they are all realistic. One is low side of realistic, the other is high side of realistic. I choose to go in the middle, but won't be surprised if either of the others come to pass.


I've seen 4 - 8 and 10 - 2 a few times. To me those are unrealistic.
 
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