The Bruce Pearl Thread

Would you be for Bruce Pearl's return if Martin is fired after next year?

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#851
#851
Chris4Vols22 said:
No because

1. Coach K, Cal, or Williams would probably not need to put themselves in a position to cheat

2. If they did, they would most likely be smart enough to own up to it when they were caught. No way do any of those three lie to NCAA investigators over something so petty. But again, would probably never happen because those coached would probably never put themselves in that position.
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I asked about the exact same scenario not the modified version you present. But tell me why every school gets in trouble the exact time Cal leaves and he remains unscathed? Do you not find that the least bit odd? And, I think you're saying it's ok to cheat but just don't get caught?
 
#854
#854
InVOLuntary said:
I asked about the exact same scenario not the modified version you present. But tell me why every school gets in trouble the exact time Cal leaves and he remains unscathed? Do you not find that the least bit odd? And, I think you're saying it's ok to cheat but just don't get caught?
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Did I not answer that exact same scenario you asked about?

Cal is obviously better at the dirty work. It's tough sh*t. If Bruce were never uncovered as liar and cheat, he would still be coaching here, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Does that mean that cheating is OK? No, it never is. But it's foolish to ignore it when it is uncovered, which is what most of these unreasonable UT fans want to do - just ignore it.

If those other coaches are cheating, there's a slim chance they'll continue to get away with it. It's just a matter of time.
 
#855
#855
I have an honest question. It seems to me for there to be a wide variance of expectations as to what what should be expected from a TN BB team. I'm not talking about this year but after Coach Martin has been established and rebuilt with his players. Should fans expect NCAA bids every year? Conference championships every so often? Sweet 16s occasionally? A final four appearance? Just curious.
 
#856
#856
Chris4Vols22 said:
Did I not answer that exact same scenario you asked about?

Cal is obviously better at the dirty work. It's tough sh*t. If Bruce were never uncovered as liar and cheat, he would still be coaching here, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Does that mean that cheating is OK? No, it never is. But it's foolish to ignore it when it is uncovered, which is what most of these unreasonable UT fans want to do - just ignore it.

If those other coaches are cheating, there's a slim chance they'll continue to get away with it. It's just a matter of time.
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No you qualified your answer by saying they would have handled it differently. They wouldn't have lied. My question was if they were caught in the exact scenario, would the punishment have been different?
 
#857
#857
UT will never rehire a coach that brought the NCAA down on them. The idea is as absurd as us rehiring Kiffin. It will never happen.

As for cheating, there are different levels of cheating per the NCAA. Having jr recruits over to his house was technically cheating, but only a secondary violation. It wouldn't have been a violation of any kind if it wasn't cheating. Pearl's problem was he took a secondary violation and turned it into a major violation by lying to the NCAA about it being his house. Despite what he did for UT basketball, terminal stupidity is what ended his coaching career.

People need to look up how other coaches that were slapped with show cause penalties have fared. None have fared very well. I doubt that changes with Pearl. Any school that hires him knows they will constantly be on the NCAA's radar. Show cause is pretty much a death penalty for a coach. Maybe Pearl will prove to be an exception, but it will never be at UT.
 
#859
#859
Weezer said:
UT will never rehire a coach that brought the NCAA down on them. The idea is as absurd as us rehiring Kiffin. It will never happen.

As for cheating, there are different levels of cheating per the NCAA. Having jr recruits over to his house was technically cheating, but only a secondary violation. It wouldn't have been a violation of any kind if it wasn't cheating. Pearl's problem was he took a secondary violation and turned it into a major violation by lying to the NCAA about it being his house. Despite what he did for UT basketball, terminal stupidity is what ended his coaching career.

People need to look up how other coaches that were slapped with show cause penalties have fared. None have fared very well. I doubt that changes with Pearl. Any school that hires him knows they will constantly be on the NCAA's radar. Show cause is pretty much a death penalty for a coach. Maybe Pearl will prove to be an exception, but it will never be at UT.
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You're probably right but I hope Coach Pearl is the exception. He screwed up and he knows it. I think he's genuinely a good guy that made a huge mistake by lying.
 
#860
#860
InVOLuntary said:
I asked about the exact same scenario not the modified version you present. But tell me why every school gets in trouble the exact time Cal leaves and he remains unscathed? Do you not find that the least bit odd? And, I think you're saying it's ok to cheat but just don't get caught?
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Cal is very good at what he does. He doesn't leave a trail that leads back to him. The NCAA cannot punish him without direct proof he was involved. Until he slips up, the NCAA's hands are tied.
 
#861
#861
Better to judge coaches over the long haul by regular seasons because just such a small sample size in ncaat...over time your ncaatperformance will pretty much line up with your reg season avg performance. I mean, donovan was a big underachiever in tourney early on and others have been on opp side...over time it all averages out.

We have huge financial commitment, a great building to play in and nice facilities, and consistently excellent fan support-among the very best in the country. In addition green and pearl never missed the tournament. So we know what competent coaching/recruiting equates to in terms of on court performance. To accept less is unnecessary. We ought to be making the ncaat 70%-80% of the time, and challenging for the conference title half the time, occasionally winning it. Again, we have multiple recent examples of what can be done and hard to understand accepting less.


InVOLuntary said:
I have an honest question. It seems to me for there to be a wide variance of expectations as to what what should be expected from a TN BB team. I'm not talking about this year but after Coach Martin has been established and rebuilt with his players. Should fans expect NCAA bids every year? Conference championships every so often? Sweet 16s occasionally? A final four appearance? Just curious.
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#862
#862
InVOLuntary said:
You read my post wrong. I don't think CCM should be fired. I don't think he'll ever get us to the heights we achieved under Pearl but I don't think he should be fired. I like him.
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Sorry, I didn't mean you, I meant those that have already made up their minds that he's a bad coach.

I won't go so far to say he's a great coach, but he has UT right on the edge of the "great" territory. Unfortunately he has a few bad losses (this year and last) that has kept UT from getting back over the hump. We'll see if those bad losses does it this year.
 
#864
#864
Weezer said:
Cal is very good at what he does. He doesn't leave a trail that leads back to him. The NCAA cannot punish him without direct proof he was involved. Until he slips up, the NCAA's hands are tied.
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I agree slippery as a snake. But I think the NCAA could find something if they wanted to.
 
#866
#866
VolsSportsFan said:
Sorry, I didn't mean you, I meant those that have already made up their minds that he's a bad coach.

I won't go so far to say he's a great coach, but he has UT right on the edge of the "great" territory. Unfortunately he has a few bad losses (this year and last) that has kept UT from getting back over the hump. We'll see if those bad losses does it this year.
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My problem is two fold. I don't think he's a very good X and O s type of coach like the say the Bradley or Gonzaga coaches. Also, he doesn't recruit at the level necessary to hide this.
 
#867
#867
Chris4Vols22 said:
The BBQ was an activity deemed illegal by the NCAA on the basis that it gave him a tactical advantage in high-level recruiting. You're an idiot if you don't see how that's cheating.

If it weren't cheating, why would Bruce lie? Why didn't he say, "yeah that's my house, I was having Aaron Craft, Josh Selby, and Jordan McRae over."
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I said it's spoken as if it's the same thing....
 
#868
#868
InVOLuntary said:
I have an honest question. It seems to me for there to be a wide variance of expectations as to what what should be expected from a TN BB team. I'm not talking about this year but after Coach Martin has been established and rebuilt with his players. Should fans expect NCAA bids every year? Conference championships every so often? Sweet 16s occasionally? A final four appearance? Just curious.
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I think starting next season we should expect to make the NCAAT every year. In fact barring some major catastrophe where 3 of our best players all are out for the year, it we don't make the NCAAT next year then I thin my mind will be made up on Martin that he is NOT the guy. Whether he gets fired or not depends on how bad they end up, but right not there's really no excuse for them to not safely make the NCAAT next season.

As far as past that, it's hard to say. Pearl certainly made making the NCAAT every season almost a given but even he struggled in the postseason, with the exception of his Elite Eight run. I mean his team that was ranked #1 for a week and outright won the SEC played pretty badly in the NCAAT and got destroyed in the Sweet 16 by Louisville.

So as far as expectations in going far in the NCAAT, I can't say because honestly this program just hasn't had much success.
 
#869
#869
Every coach "cheats" to some degree or another. The NCAA has so many rules it's impossible not to cheat in some fashion. That's why they have secondary/major violations to show the degree to which they cheated. It's why punishments vary so much case from case.
 
#870
#870
InVOLuntary said:
My problem is two fold. I don't think he's a very good X and O s type of coach like the say the Bradley or Gonzaga coaches. Also, he doesn't recruit at the level necessary to hide this.
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I'm not sure you can judge his recruiting yet. Plus it's not like Pearl was a great recruiter either.
 
#871
#871
I have complete confidence that CCM will be a good coach for us, but Pearl's ceiling is so much higher that CCMs. So why not try to get him back? I'd say we can all agree that he is the far superior coach and recruiter. He is such a true VFL, and the NCAA penalties wouldn't last long. I don't see why you guys are so quick to kill any hope about his return.
 
#872
#872
Weezer said:
Every coach "cheats" to some degree or another. The NCAA has so many rules it's impossible not to cheat in some fashion. That's why they have secondary/major violations to show the degree to which they cheated. It's why punishments vary so much case from case.
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This. Hell even Izzo had a one-game suspension for something, he was talking about how hard it actually is to remember or keep up with all the new rules. Not all illegal things are as bad as others.
 
#874
#874
RockyTopFox said:
I have complete confidence that CCM will be a good coach for us, but Pearl's ceiling is so much higher that CCMs. So why not try to get him back? I'd say we can all agree that he is the far superior coach and recruiter. He is such a true VFL, and the NCAA penalties wouldn't last long. I don't see why you guys are so quick to kill any hope about his return.
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If CCM is going to be a good coach for us, then he's not going anywhere.

And again, I'm not getting where this "Pearl was a great recruiter" is coming from.
 
#875
#875
CCM will be good, sure. But he will never have us constantly in the tourney with realistic chances to make a deep run. We won't be regarded as one of the nation's top basketball programs with CCM like we were with Pearl. I'd be the first one to root for us to completely tank next year in an effort to get Pearl back.. it would help us greatly in the long run.

If not, Tennessee's brief period of prosperity with Pearl at the helm will forever be a memory.
 
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