Does a .500 winning percentage in NFL mean anything?

#51
#51
If you use the logic that Gruden won with Dungy's team, you have to also cite the fact that Bill Callahan went to a Super Bowl with Gruden's team, which is far more impressive on Gruden's part.
 
#52
#52
shelbyvillevol said:
If you use the logic that Gruden won with Dungy's team, you have to also cite the fact that Bill Callahan went to a Super Bowl with Gruden's team, which is far more impressive on Gruden's part.
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I can't even tell you how many times I have posted this...not to steal your thunder.
 
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#53
#53
Alright, so it's time to tear down all the Nega-Grude arguments:

1. He won SB with Dungy's players. --> Winning with another coach’s "players" is not the same in the NFL as it is in college. With such a huge level of parity of talent in the league, the one thing that makes a team win regularly is the HC.

2. Well he sucked after winning the 6 years after SB. --> For the team to land Gruden, they had to give up two first and two second round draft picks. That alone is crippling, but the poor job the front office did for subsequent years only made it worse. The fact he could stay close to .500 in those years is a miracle with the roster he had.

3. Anything ranging from stupid to think he is a viable answer to he has never coached the college game. --> You must not be paying much attention to the wheels that are moving. Over the last week many articles have started coming out about Gruden and Tennessee. They are about Gruden’s high level of interest in the job. And why shouldn’t he? He could dominate in college unlike what is possible in the NFL-- the college game is leagues easier than the next level, and he will have a base salary of 5.25 mil+. Gruden can obviously coach and with the high level of exposure he has had for a long time now, could pull the celebrity card on recruits. He is a charismatic and polarizing figure. He would get the job done.
 
#55
#55
Exfix said:
LOL at "nfl washout Pete Carroll". Don't forget fellow washouts Saban and Spurrier. One could easily call Gruden an NFL washout, but I would take him no questions asked, as unlikely as that would be. Back to your original point, Tennessee is a difficult job these days and not an ideal destination for most college or NFL coaches. You act like we have our pick of the litter, and it simply is not true. I suppose there are many like you on this board who fool themselves into thinking otherwise.
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At that point he was. He had been fired by two teams-New England and the Jets. Do you dispute this?

And I'm not acting like we have our pick of the litter-you just don't read. I am comparing where we are with this hire to other programs who were in a similar state prior to making an homerun hire.
 
#57
#57
kohlrums said:
At that point he was. He had been fired by two teams-New England and the Jets. Do you dispute this?

And I'm not acting like we have our pick of the litter-you just don't read. I am comparing where we are with this hire to other programs who were in a similar state prior to making an homerun hire.
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You are struggling with the context of not only my posts, but your own. You lumped Carroll in with Sylvester Croom and Zook. He was still a big name, popular or not. Try not to miss the forest for the trees.
 
#58
#58
Exfix said:
You are struggling with the context of not only my posts, but your own. You lumped Carroll in with Sylvester Croom and Zook. He was still a big name, popular or not. Try not to miss the forest for the trees.
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Oh for crying out loud. Go check out where USC was when Carrol was hired and get back to me. And he was not a big name when he was hired-he was considered a joke of a coach in the NFL back then, and many in New England still consider him to be so.

You are confusing the present for the past. Just move along please.
 
#59
#59
He has statistically similar winning percentages (within the range of +\- .03 points) to the following nfl coaches:

Jeff fisher
Brian billick
Tom coughlin
Mike ditka
John fox
Jimmy Johnson
Chuck Knox
Marv levy
Chuck knoll
Bill parcels
Love smith
Dick vermeil

That is not bad company to be in. Over .500 in the NFL for over ten years is outstanding because of the parity and cyclical nature of the league with the salary cap restrictions.
 
#61
#61
howie87 said:
Since my wife is from Tampa, and we used to follow the Bucs pretty regularly, Ill say this... Gruden did win with the team Dungy put together, but he gets credit for taking them over the hump offensively with those same players... (And everyone by now I would hope has realized Monte was the real defensive guru in Tampa, not Dungy)

All that being said, once those same players left, there were some terrible personel decisions (FA signings, draft) made by both Gruden and the Tampa front office, so Im not necessarily sold on his player evaluation abilities, and the coaching then did nothing to overcome those mistakes...

I wouldn't be disappointed with a Gruden hire, but I dont think it would be a homerun either...
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For the 567th time, Tony Dungy was not the GM of the Tampa Bay Bucs. That was Rich McKay.
 
#62
#62
jdavis675 said:
He has statistically similar winning percentages (within the range of +\- .03 points) to the following nfl coaches:

Jeff fisher
Brian billick
Tom coughlin
Mike ditka
John fox
Jimmy Johnson
Chuck Knox
Marv levy
Chuck knoll
Bill parcels
Lovie smith
Dick vermeil

That is not bad company to be in. Over .500 in the NFL for over ten years is outstanding because of the parity and cyclical nature of the league with the salary cap restrictions.
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Yeah, but who would ever want that guy?
 
#64
#64
kohlrums said:
Oh for crying out loud. Go check out where USC was when Carrol was hired and get back to me. And he was not a big name when he was hired-he was considered a joke of a coach in the NFL back then, and many in New England still consider him to be so.

You are confusing the present for the past. Just move along please.
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U mad bro?

The "joke" Pete Carroll had a winning NFL record of 33-31 and with the Patriots, where you suggest he was the worst, he won an AFC East title and went to the playoffs twice in three years. The only reason he was a controversial hire was the length of time he was out of college. I'm done with you, slappy.
 
#66
#66
Exfix said:
U mad bro?

The "joke" Pete Carroll had a winning NFL record of 33-31 and with the Patriots, where you suggest he was the worst, he won an AFC East title and went to the playoffs twice in three years. The only reason he was a controversial hire was the length of time he was out of college. I'm done with you, slappy.
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He was fired from consecutive NFL Head Coaching positions. Those are the facts, Chief.

He was out of coaching for 2000 before being hired by USC to take over for coaching immortal Paul Hacket, who was 19-18. 19-18: sounds like USC was awesome right before they got Carroll who again-was not a popular hire back in 2001. That's 2001, not to be confused with 2011.
 
#69
#69
DeusExMachina said:
For those that don't know, the NFC South (TB, CAR, ATL, NO) is the SEC of the NFL. The AFC West......kinda like the Mountain West.

Bad competition, Gruden is +11 over .500.

Good competition, barely above .500.

#grudenisGARBAGE
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Wait, what???

Other than geography, in no way is the NFC South anywhere close to being to the NFL what the SEC is to college football:

- New Orleans: Terrible history for 40 years, one recent superbowl win now tainted in scandal.
- Tampa Bay: Was the first team ever to go 0-16, again, history is mostly terrible minus one superbowl victory 10 years ago, terrible attendence.
- Atlanta: Ok I grew up in Atlanta and from the 60's until Mike Smith was hired, the team had never seen back-to-back winning seasons! They have been to the superbowl once where they were drubbed by Denver (Who werein the same division as Gruden's Raiders that season)
- Carolina: Not a lot of history and they have had some success. But certainly not enough hostory to say they are historically a great team.

I mean really, if you want to talk about a dominant conference, I can understand arguing for the NFC East (Cowboys, Redskins, and Giants all with multiple superbowl wins) as being the NFL equivelent tot the SEC. But the NFC South? No way!!!

FWIW, I don't think Gruden's NFL record would impact his coaching ability. What makes a great college coach is being able to recruit, and motivate your players. I don't know how good Gruden would be at either, but I suspect he would do well at both.
 
#70
#70
bowlinggreenvol said:
I'm convinced this guy either got the ish beat out of him by Gruden growing up or Gruden refused to sign his ball. Comes to every thread involving Gruden yet brings no substance to back up any opinion.
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No I don't have a man crush on a mediocre coach that some think is our savior that is based on absolutely nothing.
 
#71
#71
I'm not completely sold on Gruden, but his years with the Raiders were like coaching a dysfunctional high school team, he exceeded expectations with that. (And Dungy claims Tampa Bay was even more dysfunctional that that.)
 
#73
#73
Vols4us said:
Did Saban win anything at Miami? No. Is he recognized as the best in college football? Yes.

Perhaps Gruden's best work was at Oakland before TB. He took a mediocre Oakland team to the AFC championship game in 3 seasons with Rich Gannon (who?) at QB. If Gannon doesn't get hurt in that game it may have been them instead of the Ravens in the SB. Then he goes to TB and wins the SB with the same players that another SB winning coach couldn't get over the hump with, that included Brad Johnson (who?) at QB. Then the idiot owners begin dismantling the team by not signing the stars to bigger contracts. Age caught up with the rest. Yet he still won.

Anybody doubting Gruden as a head coach has rocks for brains.
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Agreed, the TB vets trucked for bigger contracts.

Gannon was a smart QB that thrived in Gruden's offensive system. With Tim Brown and Jerry Rice plus Charlie Garner those Raider offenses hummed.

He won in Tampa with a great defense and an effective offensive scheme Brad Johnson managed to keep in the road. His other Tampa QBs were Shawn King, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, and Bruce Gradkowski. Considering that, a winning percentage few games above .500 is rather remarkable.

I think his work with QBs and how to get them prepared for the pros would be a big sell to prospective top tier HS quarterbacks. JMO.
 
#74
#74
Vegas_Ferguson said:
Agreed, the TB vets trucked for bigger contracts.

Gannon was a smart QB that thrived in Gruden's offensive system. With Tim Brown and Jerry Rice plus Charlie Garner those Raider offenses hummed.

He won in Tampa with a great defense and an effective offensive scheme Brad Johnson managed to keep in the road. His other Tampa QBs were Shawn King, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, and Bruce Gradkowski. Considering that, a winning percentage few games above .500 is rather remarkable.

I think his work with QBs and how to get them prepared for the pros would be a big sell to prospective top tier HS quarterbacks. JMO.
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Some solid points...
 
#75
#75
EaglesVols91 said:
The thing that stands out about Gruden is that he's been on MNF for awhile now. Tell me one recruit in the entire country that doesn't watch MNF. He also has that QB show for the top QBs coming to the draft. I guarantee he can recruit.
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id support a Gruden hire but not too many high school kids sit at home and watch MNF.
 
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