Coach Martin vs. Coach Dooley (merged)

[Escape Goat]

I got put on ignore by one poster: UTVOL02, which I consider a compliment anyways. Isn't he gone now?

He left. Why didn't you like him?

 

[JayVols]

Btw, Justin I like a lot of your stuff. What do you think of the new staff additions. I think we improved on every hire with the exception of one because of sal never being a dc (may end up better just saying he's an unknown right now).

I know this is not for me, but I will comment. We very well may have upgraded in most areas. I honestly don't one way or the other yet. I do think there needed to be some changes. We will see the answer on the upgrade or not in the future as I base my feeling on what I see on the field.

At this time, however, there are some major negative in losing 7 coaches in a single offseason. At the moment, the happenings with assistants gives some bad vibes. 1. Lack of stability- stability is a major argument many of those saying we can't get rid of CDD after only two years. There is always some attrition on staffs given the nature of college coaching today. It's to be expected. However, losing seven coaches is extreme even when taking into account said coaching climate. It becomes even more troublesome when you have this level of attrition when the coaches leave for lateral positions to schools that lack the history of UT and moving to less prestigious conferences for a comperable salary. Another black eye is taken when you announce one of your most respected coaches is retiringonly to find out that he was forced out. It could be a PR nightmare. At the least, it COULD create doubts in relation to a HC's honesty and integrity. 2. New coaches= new systems, new terminology, new philosophies, and new techniques that will take a lot of time and effort just to implement. This takes time away from pursuing improvement in comparison to a known scheme. Instead of polishing we are now back to shaping the new pieces into a rough shape at least for a decent period of time. 3. There are some unknowns with the new hires. CSS has proven to be a good LBs coach. We don't know what kind of coordinator he will be. 4. CSP's ability to retool our run blocking is unknown at this time. He could be a perfect fit. We don't know yet. We do know that the running game of NC wasn't exactly known as a powerhouse. I will say that FCHH needed to go. He very well may be a good coach. He had a lot of interest from some quality programs and was hired by a former powerhouse that has fallen on tough times as of late. Even if he was a good coach, he was obviously unable to connect with and improve our current O linemen. Pittman may very well excell in those areas. We don't know yet.

It is a huge risk for CDD to take by letting staff go, and a blow losing some staff that he probably wanted to keep at this juncture of his tenure. I don't know if it's a good thing for CDD to go through this amount of change in what many are saying is his make or break year. I see this going one or two ways. The team has the typical struggles that come with the new staff and schemes and those struggles cost CDD his job. Or, the new staff and players gel quickly, improve over last year, and CDD looks like he knows what he is doing buying him more time as HC at UT. Regardless the outcome, this year will be very interesting to watch. Dooley will either prove he is the paper tiger many claim him to be, or he actually gives some evidence that he might be the guy. Honestly, I have serious doubts based on his history. We will have a definite answer come November or possibly sooner.

 

[JayVols]

He left. Why didn't you like him?

I found him a bit annoying and waaaaaay over the top with his optimism in the face of some pretty convincing evidence that doesn't inspire optimism. He took any statement that was not glowing as a personal affront then questioned that person's fandom too often. Finally and perhaps most notably for me, his incessant posting of the Kermit gif where the frog acted like he was freaking out on bath salts grew inexpressively annoying very quickly. At least that's how I saw it.

If I am not mistaken, he lost a bet with 99gator, correct? Despite my loathing of all things UF, I feel like channeling my inner George Patton from the movie Patton. There's scene where Patton is complaining to the British Air Marshal about German planes attacking his troops while said Brit was questioning Patton's honesty because he was claiming the Allies possessed air supremecy. At that moment, a German plane began a straffing run on Patton's HQ. Old Blood and Guts made the statement that if he could find the German SOB that was flying the plane he would pin a medal on him because he helped prove his point about the Luftwaffe's harassment of his forces in the presence of the Air Marshal. I would do the same for 99 if possible if for nothing else it was due to his bet that I didn't have to endure another bath salts tweaking Kermit gif post from 02.

 

[VolBeef88]

Just please don't announce it to the world that you are ignoring that person now.... it actually defeats your purpose of denying the ignoree attention by the ignorer calling more attention to said ignoree. I admit these announcements are a pet peeve of mine, not that anyone else cares- just sayin.

I've never used the ignore button.
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[Spartacavolus]

Groves knows his football. Want to see yourself? Let's all debate some Xs and Os. Guaranteed he will do quite well. Up for it guys?

Anytime

 

[JayVols]

Anytime

Cool. Love discussing the game. Feel free to pose a question. These type discussions are awesome.

 

[tvols75]

Cool. Love discussing the game. Feel free to pose a question. These type discussions are awesome.

Agree, but the discussions usually divert from X's and O's and turn to personal attacks. Hopefully, not this time. I do think it will be virtually unstoppable with a "high-low" route with Da'Rick and Hunter lined up on the same side. That would be fun to see how the DB reacts on his read.

 

[Oskie Volum]

I found him a bit annoying and waaaaaay over the top with his optimism in the face of some pretty convincing evidence that doesn't inspire optimism. He took any statement that was not glowing as a personal affront then questioned that person's fandom too often. Finally and perhaps most notably for me, his incessant posting of the Kermit gif where the frog acted like he was freaking out on bath salts grew inexpressively annoying very quickly. At least that's how I saw it.

If I am not mistaken, he lost a bet with 99gator, correct? Despite my loathing of all things UF, I feel like channeling my inner George Patton from the movie Patton. There's scene where Patton is complaining to the British Air Marshal about German planes attacking his troops while said Brit was questioning Patton's honesty because he was claiming the Allies possessed air supremecy. At that moment, a German plane began a straffing run on Patton's HQ. Old Blood and Guts made the statement that if he could find the German SOB that was flying the plane he would pin a medal on him because he helped prove his point about the Luftwaffe's harassment of his forces in the presence of the Air Marshal. I would do the same for 99 if possible if for nothing else it was due to his bet that I didn't have to endure another bath salts tweaking Kermit gif post from 02.

That sux. I liked 02. Does the bet have a return date to it? I didn't see what u did from his post, but I did see some solid info he brought to the board.

 

[Bigun]

You missed it.

Dooley has 4 terrible seasons in 5 years of coaching. That's plenty of evidence he's just not a very good HC.

Tennessee played an FCS school and a terrible defense from the Big East.

What coaches started out 4-12 in conference play and became conference winning, NC contending HC's?

4 losing seasons in 5 years is easy to spout without digging into the situation a little deeper.

So, we played an FCS school and the Co-Big East champion and hammered both of them and Dooley sucks? What was he supposed to do? That is as stupid an arguement as people saying that Fulmer wasn't that good in the 90's because the SEC was down. What was he supposed to do?

What coaches started out terrible and ended up having success? Brady Hoke? Coach K? Saban?

If you flipped Fulmer's career and he had 2 losing seasons in his first 4 years with losses to Wyoming and Vandy, would you want him fired and say he wasn't the man for the job?

 

[JayVols]

Agree, but the discussions usually divert from X's and O's and turn to personal attacks. Hopefully, not this time. I do think it will be virtually unstoppable with a "high-low" route with Da'Rick and Hunter lined up on the same side. That would be fun to see how the DB reacts on his read.

I will not go into personal attacks.

I agree. I feel, if Patterson turns out to be as good as advertized, he is another Hunter type that can stretch the field vertically. It makes sense to put Rodgers in the slot to wreak havok underneath. Rodgers has some vertical ability, but I see his strength being underneath routes that include crossing routes. His size and strength are very conducive to being able to take the punishment that comes from middle of the field routes. Plus, I really like the mismatch that Rodgers being in the slot creates. Darick vs a safety is a great situation for the Vols.

 

[2ironVol]

This is a site to discuss Vol football. You and the others post your pie in the sky garbage so I bring reality. If you don't like it then ignore my posts/threads.
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So if someone doesn't agree exactly with your take on things then they aren't facing reality?

You might end up being right about Dooley, but your manner is that of a pathetic little boy.

 

[tvols75]

I will not go into personal attacks.

I agree. I feel, if Patterson turns out to be as good as advertized, he is another Hunter type that can stretch the field vertically. It makes sense to put Rodgers in the slot to wreak havok underneath. Rodgers has some vertical ability, but I see his strength being underneath routes that include crossing routes. His size and strength are very conducive to being able to take the punishment that comes from middle of the field routes. Plus, I really like the mismatch that Rodgers being in the slot creates. Darick vs a safety is a great situation for the Vols.

Agree completely. The offense is going to be explosive with Rogers and Hunter. If Patterson is anywhere close to advertised then this might be the most potent passing attack in UT history and that's saying a lot.

While I understand some of the concerns of the 3-4 implementation expressed by some, I think it benefits us as well because it hides some of the limitations of our younger LBs and plays to their strengths. AJ is a perfect fit in the middle, and he won't have to cover a ton of space (one of his weaknesses last year). Maggitt reminded a lot of HS coaches in FL of Terrell Suggs, and in the scrimmages he thrived by being used a rush linebacker. Jac Smith is going to thrive as well. Malik was a beast for us, but I actually think that we may have upgraded with Sentimore. Couch went from an asthmatic non-contributor to maybe being our best DL down the stretch. Will be great to see him and Sentimore on the ends wreaking havoc.

 

[Orange Blazer]

The IQ in that thread went up when the Zoners took over actually.

I think it's funny you think Chaney went and found a QB all by his lonesome across the country. Have you seen where he recruits?

Didn't Kiffin call his buddy Pete at USC in order to find Bray?

 

[JayVols]

Now that we have at least 2 or 3 legit NT to plug the middle in the 3-4, I have fewer concerns. My main concern is the time factor. Instead of polishing an established defensive scheme, we are going to be learning a new system. As complex the college schemes are, it csn take 1-2 full years to fully implement and become fluent in the techniques.

From what I have heard, Sentimore is going to be an absolute monster.

 

[tvols75]

Now that we have at least 2 or 3 legit NT to plug the middle in the 3-4, I have fewer concerns. My main concern is the time factor. Instead of polishing an established defensive scheme, we are going to be learning a new system. As complex the college schemes are, it csn take 1-2 full years to fully implement and become fluent in the techniques.

From what I have heard, Sentimore is going to be an absolute monster.

I think there is a curve, but you are overstating it's effect. If we were going primarily to the 3-4, I would agree. However, we will definitely have a lot of schematic similarities to last year. And I could care less if the DBs are getting a completely overhauled scheme and technique, because they needed it. I guess we will see though. I'm just excited that we probably will be a lot more aggressive on D. With young players, that does a lot of motivating on its own.

 

[JayVols]

I think there is a curve, but you are overstating it's effect. If we were going primarily to the 3-4, I would agree. However, we will definitely have a lot of schematic similarities to last year. And I could care less if the DBs are getting a completely overhauled scheme and technique, because they needed it. I guess we will see though. I'm just excited that we probably will be a lot more aggressive on D. With young players, that does a lot of motivating on its own.

I wouldn't classify my stance as an overstatement. It's just merely pointing out a disadvantage. You have a valid point because Sunseri has said that we will be multiple in our defensive philosophy. There will be some carry over from last year. However, there will be tweaks in technique and terminology. Every coach has their own unique terms and quirks that fit their unique philosophies within the essentially same base defense.

The 3-4 has some very different responsibilities in regards to containment, LB pass coverage, run gap responsibilities, and LB blitzes than the 4-3. I have ran the 4-3, 3-4, 4-4, 5-2, 5-3 stack, and even 6 man defensive fronts. The 3-4 has some vastly different responsibilities from the others I mentioned.

 

[82_VOL_83]

What do you know, my stalker. But you're still missing the point. It's not comparing the coaching of one sport to the other. It's about meeting expectations. One coach has and one coach hasn't.
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So Beef, I am going to hand you 2 kernels of corn and then hand 99 a bag of Martha White's self rising corn meal mix and then tell you to make cornbread. Comparing Dooley to Martin is very close to that. Beef, there is no way in hades that you can come close to meeting expectations while 99 will most likely succeed. I am not saying that Dooley is the be all end all....he may fail bad. What I am saying is that comparing the two coaches given the situation that both stepped into is like apples and oranges.eace2:

 

[82_VOL_83]

That's your opinion. I've seen enough. He had a losing record at La Tech and after 2 seasons he has a losing record at UT.
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Beef, why don't you pony up about $10 mill so that we can fire Dooley and the entire staff, pay all of their buyouts and go look for a new coach. Because until you face the facts that no matter how much you think you know about coaching college football, you really just are a Dooley hater. And until money starts to grow on trees, we got Coach DD for another year and probably two. But you need to come armed with something other than wins and losses to compare Martin to Dooley cause like I have said, its like apples and oranges. If Maymon and Golden had gone down in the 2nd week of January, you would not have even posted this thread because it would have been a moot point.eace2:

 

[Spartacavolus]

Cool. Love discussing the game. Feel free to pose a question. These type discussions are awesome.

I don't have any questions to pose, especially to people that use phrases as goob, sunshine pumper, idiot, etc and bring up coaching mistakes from the past 2 years.

Most are on the same page with you in regards to DD, but calling our HC a loser is disrespectful and there is no way one can say he is pulling for a coach or program with such disdain put in words. Same guys would have run off HOF coaches after their first 4-5 years if they were around those particular programs. The point is, noone knows what will happen, so lets see and stop the crap about La Tech, 14 men on the field and losing to ky.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I don't hate Dooley and I don't wish for him to fail. I defy you to find anywhere I've stated either. I just don't think he's the right guy for the job and as far as me hoping he fails is crap. There's a HUGE difference in thinking he'll fail and wanting him to fail.
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You REALLY should go back and read your posts on this thread.:whistling:

 

[VolBeef88]

So if someone doesn't agree exactly with your take on things then they aren't facing reality?

You might end up being right about Dooley, but your manner is that of a pathetic little boy.

My Stalker appeared... Not at all. But if you or others don't like what I post then just don't reply or ignore my posts. But you obviously have a man crush on me.
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[Spartacavolus]

More great knowledge blessed upon us, I see.

 

[VolBeef88]

Beef, why don't you pony up about $10 mill so that we can fire Dooley and the entire staff, pay all of their buyouts and go look for a new coach. Because until you face the facts that no matter how much you think you know about coaching college football, you really just are a Dooley hater. And until money starts to grow on trees, we got Coach DD for another year and probably two. But you need to come armed with something other than wins and losses to compare Martin to Dooley cause like I have said, its like apples and oranges. If Maymon and Golden had gone down in the 2nd week of January, you would not have even posted this thread because it would have been a moot point.eace2:

You obviously cannot comprehend simple subjects. And those of you in the Defend Dooley no matter what brigade who are now talking down arguably the best coaching job in the SEC in basketball this year should be ashamed. We were picked 11 and finished 2nd. There's a reason EVERYONE picked us so low. Y'all act as if Martin replaced coach K or something. Martin took over a damned dumpster fire and turned it around. And he didn't even get the job until mid summer!
So if y'all wanna keep propping up a coach who has failed and has a career losing record that's your call. But to act like what Coach Martin has done is ANYTHING short of amazing in order to prop Dooley up is pathetic and again y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. It's simple, Martin has WAY over achieved and Dooley has under achieved. PERIOD!
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[Jax_Vol]

You obviously cannot comprehend simple subjects. And those of you in the Defend Dooley no matter what brigade who are now talking down arguably the best coaching job in the SEC in basketball this year should be ashamed. We were picked 11 and finished 2nd. There's a reason EVERYONE picked us so low. Y'all act as if Martin replaced coach K or something. Martin took over a damned dumpster fire and turned it around. And he didn't even get the job until mid summer!
So if y'all wanna keep propping up a coach who has failed and has a career losing record that's your call. But to act like what Coach Martin has done is ANYTHING short of amazing in order to prop Dooley up is pathetic and again y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. It's simple, Martin has WAY over achieved and Dooley has under achieved. PERIOD!
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Please tell me that "PERIOD" means that you are now going to stick a cork in it? :kiss:

 

[SolidRockGolf]

My Stalker appeared... Not at all. But if you or others don't like what I post then just don't reply or ignore my posts. But you obviously have a man crush on me.
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Honestly, your posts suggest that you have more underline issues than hating on CDD. I hope you figure them out someday.

Just a note. You don't always have to hate or draw attention to yourself. It shows a weakness.