Bray and thumb

[g8terh8ter_eric]

Disagree totally...

Arnett couldn't see the field early, even as a #3 and now he's arguably our #2...Jackson has overtaken Stone, has been killing people lately and is likely a mainstay on the OL for the rest of his career...Lanier couldn't beat out Teague early and now he's a starter...Moore has gone from the pine to starting at the nickel...Worley's mechanics have completely changed, he now has a legit arm...Waggner couldn't tackle air now he's a legit tackler...Carson went from out of shape to a contributor...Couch went from out of shape to a starter and future star...Walls couldn't sniff the QB early now he's getting legit pressure...Coleman couldn't cover Montanas WR's now he's made his way back to the starting lineup...Brian Randolph, enough said...Devrin Young and our return game, enough said...

The progress is there...the problem is it's hard for some people to see it when it's not accompanied by wins

I think your pumping a little sunshine with this post. True progression would start seeing some solidification in certain areas of the team. Other than our return game, which Young has singlehandedly changed, I haven't seen much progression at all. Arnett's best game came against Florida, and yet he hasn't recorded over 3 catches in a game since then.

I think it's starting to become obvious that they may be trying to do too much scheme wise with a young team.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

agreed. They're only hear for 4. If a defense aint learnable in 1 then something is seriously wrong.

It's not like Wilcox was coachin rhodes scholars at Boise. That 60% number just can't be true.

When you have had a recruiting class with the same coordinators for 4 years, they then should have a complete grasp. The next group will pick it up quicker, because the upperclasmen will know what is going on and can teach them. Now, everybody is in learning mode, and it goes slower. We have to teach everyone. When the system is in place, the youth can progress without being thrown into the fire. Getting this thing started is the hardest part, after that, it is plug and play.

 

[amazingGRACE]

agreed. They're only hear for 4. If a defense aint learnable in 1 then something is seriously wrong.

It's not like Wilcox was coachin rhodes scholars at Boise. That 60% number just can't be true.

How can it not be true..do you realize how man first year guys are getting meaningful snaps on defense?

Couch, Maggitt, Johnson, Lanier, Coleman, Randolph, Moore..he can't just unleash the whole playbook on them and expect them to grasp it.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

When you have had a recruiting class with the same coordinators for 4 years, they then should have a complete grasp. The next group will pick it up quicker, because the upperclasmen will know what is going on and can teach them. Now, everybody is in learning mode, and it goes slower. We have to teach everyone. When the system is in place, the youth can progress without being thrown into the fire. Getting this thing started is the hardest part, after that, it is plug and play.

We are halfway there with some of these guys, and it looks like they are lost sometimes out there. I don't disagree with you in principle, but someone's got to step up and take control from a player point of view.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I will argue this two different ways....

1. I think some people make UT Football more important in their lives, than other things that should be. Sure, it's their lives, and they can live it as they wish, but win or lose I have too many other things that have much more importance in life.

2. The other people who are realists, and understand where we are, all they are looking for is somewhat of an improvement from beginning to end. Sure, we have had injuries, but most everyone else has been playing, so where is the improvement? Case in point, the offensive line. I don't think any of those guys have had major injury, yet we still can't run the ball, and pass protection hasn't really gotten any better either.

There are plenty of people who talk without a purpose, and I think those are the people you are referring to. I understand where we are, but almost 2 years into it, I'm still left wondering what direction we are heading in. I'm still a Dooley guy, just much more reserved at this point.

"Ain't it like most people, I'm no different, we love to talk on things we don't know about"

- The Avett Brothers

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Disagree totally...

Arnett couldn't see the field early, even as a #3 and now he's arguably our #2...Jackson has overtaken Stone, has been killing people lately and is likely a mainstay on the OL for the rest of his career...Lanier couldn't beat out Teague early and now he's a starter...Moore has gone from the pine to starting at the nickel...Worley's mechanics have completely changed, he now has a legit arm...Waggner couldn't tackle air now he's a legit tackler...Carson went from out of shape to a contributor...Couch went from out of shape to a starter and future star...Walls couldn't sniff the QB early now he's getting legit pressure...Coleman couldn't cover Montanas WR's now he's made his way back to the starting lineup...Brian Randolph, enough said...Devrin Young and our return game, enough said...

The progress is there...the problem is it's hard for some people to see it when it's not accompanied by wins

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

How can it not be true..do you realize how man first year guys are getting meaningful snaps on defense?

Couch, Maggitt, Johnson, Lanier, Coleman, Randolph, Moore..he can't just unleash the whole playbook on them and expect them to grasp it.

You unleash that playbook in spring and fall, then scale it back for the season. If they haven't got the basic version by now, and gotten a little more advanced, then yes there is a problem.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

We are halfway there with some of these guys, and it looks like they are lost sometimes out there. I don't disagree with you in principle, but someone's got to step up and take control from a player point of view.

Would you not agree that our schemes have been solid this year? I think we have lacked athleticism/speed, depth and freshmen mistakes, but overall, schematically, I think we have been where we need to be. To me, that is the measuring rod for whether or not we are going in the right direction.

Agreed, we do need people to step up. I still say that the full implementation of the defense will fall into place once a full class has been here. It will all fall into line after that as long as we continue to recruit well and don't lose players.

 

[thunder5]

I think your pumping a little sunshine with this post. True progression would start seeing some solidification in certain areas of the team. Other than our return game, which Young has singlehandedly changed, I haven't seen much progression at all. Arnett's best game came against Florida, and yet he hasn't recorded over 3 catches in a game since then.

I think it's starting to become obvious that they may be trying to do too much scheme wise with a young team.

And I think you're being negative for the sake of being negative...

You've said several times in this thread that you think even our pass blocking hasn't improved...yet we gave up 41 sacks last year and we've given up 15 this year...

Arnett didn't know the playbook and coudn't run good enough routes to see the field early...now he does both well enough to be our most consistent WR behind D Rogers...

I coud go into detail about how each player I listed earlier has progressed but it would clearly be a waste of my time...you have decided that the progress isn't happening and nothing is going to change your mind about that

 

[skeeter33418]

When you have had a recruiting class with the same coordinators for 4 years, they then should have a complete grasp. The next group will pick it up quicker, because the upperclasmen will know what is going on and can teach them. Now, everybody is in learning mode, and it goes slower. We have to teach everyone. When the system is in place, the youth can progress without being thrown into the fire. Getting this thing started is the hardest part, after that, it is plug and play.

alot of fact in this post. last year in summer workouts, our jrs and srs had no clue how to help the young guys out, because they didnt know themselves. it will get better. wilcox had to scale the defense back some right off the bat, losing jansen hurt alot. now we have freshman or first year players running all over the def backfield. scaled back a little more.
next year all these jrs will be able to help the freshman out a little more. things will get better.

 

[GAVol]

You unleash that playbook in spring and fall, then scale it back for the season.

Is that the way you've generally gone about installing defenses?

Seriously . . . look at what we've been running out there the past 2 years. We've basically had to start all over twice.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

Would you not agree that our schemes have been solid this year? I think we have lacked athleticism/speed, depth and freshmen mistakes, but overall, schematically, I think we have been where we need to be. To me, that is the measuring rod for whether or not we are going in the right direction.

Agreed, we do need people to step up. I still say that the full implementation of the defense will fall into place once a full class has been here. It will all fall into line after that as long as we continue to recruit well and don't lose players.

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but Vandy about beat the same team that we got destroyed by last week. That tells me that our scheme just doesn't work as well as we would let ourselves believe it does.

 

[skeeter33418]

And I think you're being negative for the sake of being negative...

You've said several times in this thread that you think even our pass blocking hasn't improved...yet we gave up 41 sacks last year and we've given up 15 this year...

Arnett didn't know the playbook and coudn't run good enough routes to see the field early...now he does both well enough to be our most consistent WR behind D Rogers...

I coud go into detail about how each player I listed earlier has progressed but it would clearly be a waste of my time...you have decided that the progress isn't happening and nothing is going to change your mind about that

inn all fairness. the first 8 games we had velcro boy taking the snaps. he would be sacked 40 times behind the packers oline.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

Is that the way you've generally gone about installing defenses?

That's the way it's always worked.

 

[amazingGRACE]

You unleash that playbook in spring and fall, then scale it back for the season. If they haven't got the basic version by now, and gotten a little more advanced, then yes there is a problem.

I agree..but Dooley keeps saying that most of those guys are turning the corner and understanding it now.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

And I think you're being negative for the sake of being negative...

You've said several times in this thread that you think even our pass blocking hasn't improved...yet we gave up 41 sacks last year and we've given up 15 this year...

Arnett didn't know the playbook and coudn't run good enough routes to see the field early...now he does both well enough to be our most consistent WR behind D Rogers...

I coud go into detail about how each player I listed earlier has progressed but it would clearly be a waste of my time...you have decided that the progress isn't happening and nothing is going to change your mind about that

I'm not being negative, I'm just having a civil discussion here. Like I said, I'm a Dooley guy, but I'm looking for the improvement, and it's lacking a bit.

 

[GAVol]

inn all fairness. the first 8 games we had velcro boy taking the snaps. he would be sacked 40 times behind the packers oline.

Yeah . . . Simms back there doesn't exactly do an o-line any favors getting the ball out on time.

 

[skeeter33418]

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but Vandy about beat the same team that we got destroyed by last week. That tells me that our scheme just doesn't work as well as we would let ourselves believe it does.

we'll find out saturday how we compare to vandy. but i dont think you can compare our game against ugs, arkky or anyone else for that matter. believe it or not none of those teams overlooked us. vandy may have caught those teams at the right time, may have caught them looking ahead is you look at the schedules. dont know if thats the case or not, we'll know saturday.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but Vandy about beat the same team that we got destroyed by last week. That tells me that our scheme just doesn't work as well as we would let ourselves believe it does.

I don't have any answers for the Vandy scenario and why Arkansas blew us away :dunno:, but I still say we are doing pretty good. I think we'll both be on the same page in a year or two. :hi:

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

I agree..but Dooley keeps saying that most of those guys are turning the corner and understanding it now.

That's great if that's the case, then let's not get blown out on the field this week. The way we have struggled to score, it's going to be hard to have much belief in the system to do well this week.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

I don't have any answers for the Vandy scenario and why Arkansas blew us away :dunno:, but I still say we are doing pretty good. I think we'll both be on the same page in a year or two. :hi:

I hope so, because a lot of fans are frustrated with having to grasp for straws in the improvement department.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

we'll find out saturday how we compare to vandy. but i dont think you can compare our game against ugs, arkky or anyone else for that matter. believe it or not none of those teams overlooked us. vandy may have caught those teams at the right time, may have caught them looking ahead is you look at the schedules. dont know if thats the case or not, we'll know saturday.

We will know Saturday. It would be nice to prove James Franklin a fraud. Thing is, if we lose to Vandy, don't think for a second that Vandy won't use that against us in state, especially with the West TN recruits.

 

[Vercingetorix]

I don't have any answers for the Vandy scenario and why Arkansas blew us away :dunno:, but I still say we are doing pretty good. I think we'll both be on the same page in a year or two. :hi:

Vandy has been playing teams close and then choking the game away in that 11:30 Central slot forever. Nobody gives a crap about playing them. I watched that game and it looked like pretty much Vandy Business As Usual to me. Other team's asleep, figures out in the third quarter that they need to start playing and the game turns around, Vandy makes the critical mistake(s) at the end. Ho hum.

 

[tvolsfan]

Vandy has been playing teams close and then choking the game away in that 11:30 Central slot forever. Nobody gives a crap about playing them. I watched that game and it looked like pretty much Vandy Business As Usual to me. Other team's asleep, figures out in the third quarter that they need to start playing and the game turns around, Vandy makes the critical mistake(s) at the end. Ho hum.

100% accurate.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

I hope so, because a lot of fans are frustrated with having to grasp for straws in the improvement department.

We all know the expectations we have for UT football. We expect to be in the SEC championship game every couple of years and are owned by nobody. Even though most reasonable heads around here expected 8-4 through 6-6 records, the frustration of a long season wear thin and we lose sight of why we are where we are, even though it is well documented.

What areas of improvement have you expected to see that you haven't? I would say running game/offensive line play, and kicking game. I would echo what Thunder has said in terms of improvement and would chalk up a lot of disaster to our injuries and Janzen's dismissal.