Update on new strength coach

[govols/cc]

Just so I can try to get a better bead on your stance answer me this; absolutely regardless of how much training and nutrition is involved what percentage of the population do you think is capable of running a sub-10.00 sec 100 meters? Having a 45+" vertical? Benching 500lbs?

Thank you. So bama when you can bench press 450lbs, run a 4.3 forty, & have a 40 inch vertical let me know because there's hundreds if not thousands of pro athletes that can't & they train everyday. Yet they're are regular joes that can do these things with very little training.
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[lylsmorr]

Just so I can try to get a better bead on your stance answer me this; absolutely regardless of how much training and nutrition is involved what percentage of the population do you think is capable of running a sub-10.00 sec 100 meters? Having a 45+" vertical? Benching 500lbs?

Conditioning in your adolescent years has a lot....and I mean a lot, to do with that. If you sit on the couch and eat potato chips, you aren't going to run a sub 4.5 40 yard dash.

 

[govols/cc]

Conditioning in your adolescent years has a lot....and I mean a lot, to do with that. If you sit on the couch and eat potato chips, you aren't going to run a sub 4.5 40 yard dash.

Well every kid doesn't reach puberty or hit a growth spurt at the same time. Why? Why are some 10-12 year olds 6' tall? Why is every kid in pee wee football not exactly the same? It's not training. It's genetics. Some people are just naturally stronger, bigger, & faster. Nobody has refuted that training, diet, etc won't benefit everybody but we all have our limits. If you don't believe that you're kidding yourself.
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[lylsmorr]

Well every kid doesn't reach puberty or hit a growth spurt at the same time. Why? Why are some 10-12 year olds 6' tall? Why is every kid in pee wee football not exactly the same? It's not training. It's genetics. Some people are just naturally stronger, bigger, & faster. Nobody has refuted that training, diet, etc won't benefit everybody but we all have our limits. If you don't believe that you're kidding yourself.
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Height and speed/strength are two completely different aspects.

 

[bamacheats]

Just so I can try to get a better bead on your stance answer me this; absolutely regardless of how much training and nutrition is involved what percentage of the population do you think is capable of running a sub-10.00 sec 100 meters? Having a 45+" vertical? Benching 500lbs?

I don't really understand what you're asking. With no training at all you're not going to find one single person that can do those. That's why training allows athletes to surpass genetics. Therefore training > genetics.

I'll use myself as an example. I've been 6'1" and slender since my junior year of highschool. Basketball was a primary part of life, played or practiced daily. I could just barely dunk on an empty court, never in a game. I started in January with a goal of flushing one two handed. I bought some strength shoes, pounded protein shakes all day, and ran and jumped for 5 months straight. I could dunk with two hands from a standstill. I easily overcame my white boy genetics in a few months with training and nutrition.
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[govols/cc]

I don't really understand what you're asking. With no training at all you're not going to find one single person that can do those. That's why training allows athletes to surpass genetics. Therefore training > genetics.

I'll use myself as an example. I've been 6'1" and slender since my junior year of highschool. Basketball was a primary part of life, played or practiced daily. I could just barely dunk on an empty court, never in a game. I started in January with a goal of flushing one two handed. I bought some strength shoes, pounded protein shakes all day, and ran and jumped for 5 months straight. I could dunk with two hands from a standstill. I easily overcame my white boy genetics in a few months with training and nutrition.
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How many 6'1" kids ur age can dunk or jump higher with no training? I promise they're out there.
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[govols/cc]

Height and speed/strength are two completely different aspects.

Lol so genetics give you your physical dimensions but none of your physical capabilities. I just don't see any rational person ever believing that.
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[bamacheats]

Well every kid doesn't reach puberty or hit a growth spurt at the same time. Why? Why are some 10-12 year olds 6' tall? Why is every kid in pee wee football not exactly the same? It's not training. It's genetics. Some people are just naturally stronger, bigger, & faster. Nobody has refuted that training, diet, etc won't benefit everybody but we all have our limits. If you don't believe that you're kidding yourself.
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You've got a very limited understanding of the human body. For example, studying MLB pitchers, researchers have found that they have reached their limit as far as how fast they can pitch, and they come in every shape, race, and color known to man. The limit is not how strong they are, or how big they are, its their tendons and ligaments that can't go any further. No way known yet to strengthen those.

So from one study group, with genetics all over the place, the group as a whole has reached a limit of efficiency. They all got to that limit with extensive training, not because they are genetic freaks.
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[bamacheats]

Lol so genetics give you your physical dimensions but none of your physical capabilities. I just don't see any rational person ever believing that.
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We agree there, since you've yet to provide rational info, no way you're ever going to understand it.
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[bamacheats]

How many 6'1" kids ur age can dunk or jump higher with no training? I promise they're out there.
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I don't have a freakin clue what you're talking about. You're just talking around yourself now.

I can jump higher than you, sure. But if you train and I don't, you'll jump higher. What's so hard to understand?
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[lylsmorr]

Lol so genetics give you your physical dimensions but none of your physical capabilities. I just don't see any rational person ever believing that.
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Genetics give you the tools since your genes give you arms and legs, but you can manipulate your body more through training. Genes are not the be all/end all of a person's makeup. You think if Michael Johnson had a boy, he could play video games 24/7 for 22 years, then throw on some gold track shoes and blaze a new world record 100m dash?

 

[govols/cc]

I don't have a freakin clue what you're talking about. You're just talking around yourself now.

I can jump higher than you, sure. But if you train and I don't, you'll jump higher. What's so hard to understand?
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You tell me what's hard to understand. I'm telling you that you can train as much as you want & you might be able to dunk a ball or whatever but there's kids that do nothing more than just play ball without special shoes or weights & can put their nuts in your face. Same height, same build, whatever.
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[lylsmorr]

You tell me what's hard to understand. I'm telling you that you can train as much as you want & you might be able to dunk a ball or whatever but there's kids that do nothing more than just play ball without special shoes or weights & can put their nuts in your face. Same height, same build, whatever.
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Those kids train their muscles by playing ball. It's not like they just walk on the court in Doc Martens and dunk

 

[bamacheats]

You tell me what's hard to understand. I'm telling you that you can train as much as you want & you might be able to dunk a ball or whatever but there's kids that do nothing more than just play ball without special shoes or weights & can put their nuts in your face. Same height, same build, whatever.
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No there isn't. Unless you're crippled, you take two healthy humans with same build, no way there's a huge discrepancy.
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[hndog609]

I don't really understand what you're asking. With no training at all you're not going to find one single person that can do those. That's why training allows athletes to surpass genetics. Therefore training > genetics.

I'll use myself as an example. I've been 6'1" and slender since my junior year of highschool. Basketball was a primary part of life, played or practiced daily. I could just barely dunk on an empty court, never in a game. I started in January with a goal of flushing one two handed. I bought some strength shoes, pounded protein shakes all day, and ran and jumped for 5 months straight. I could dunk with two hands from a standstill. I easily overcame my white boy genetics in a few months with training and nutrition.
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I didn't think I was being ambiguous but let me try to clarify my question. What percentage of the population do you think is capable, regardless of how much training and nutrition is involved, of meeting the marks I set?

Where you seem to have an odd disconnect is that it seems you are taking an "either/or" stance. If you are trying to establish that proper training and nutrition plays a big role in getting anywhere near what YOU are capable of then I don't think anybody is going to disagree with you and I'm sure as hell not. OTOH the genetics factor, I'll call it The Ghost in the Machine, is nothing more than your limits are YOUR limits and differ, markedly even, from others. Sounds like you did a good job of improving your hops...kudos. That was you applying good nutrition and work ethic to increase your level of perfomance. So...you wanna go put those numbers up against those posted by Jordan? Darrel Griffith? David Thompson? Of course not. NO amount of training is going to get you into that club unless you've got the genetics for it. It's that simple. Same way with speed. In the history of electronic timing the 10 second barrier has been broken way less than 100 times. (I believe it's in the 70's) Here's some good trivia for you...the first time it was done was all the way back at the 1968 Olympics. Why does this matter? Because literally hundreds of thousands of people have been trying go under 10.00 for decades and only a comparative handful have done so...and it wasn't for lack of training.

Upshot, don't confuse genetic limitations with training limitations. You are absolutely correct that there's much can be done with the latter but seem oddly recalcitrant in accepting the (pretty obvious) realities of the former.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Genetics give you the tools since your genes give you arms and legs, but you can manipulate your body more through training. Genes are not the be all/end all of a person's makeup. You think if Michael Johnson had a boy, he could play video games 24/7 for 22 years, then throw on some gold track shoes and blaze a new world record 100m dash?

Physically and mentally , we are what our Genes are. What we do with what our parents gave us depends on us.

 

[govols/cc]

Genetics give you the tools since your genes give you arms and legs, but you can manipulate your body more through training. Genes are not the be all/end all of a person's makeup. You think if Michael Johnson had a boy, he could play video games 24/7 for 22 years, then throw on some gold track shoes and blaze a new world record 100m dash?

Nobody said or expects that a person with good genes can sit on their ass & be a gold medalist. Where the hell does that come from? I'm saying you have a kid & he can train 24/7 & it's not guaranteed he will be as strong or as fast as a kid who does half as much.
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[lylsmorr]

Physically and mentally , we are what our Genes are. What we do with what our parents gave us depends on us.

Not at all. Gene mutations happen literally all the time in a person. Genes in a person's body aren't necessarily an exact copy of their parents' genes.

 

[stcvol]

Originally Posted by Ari Silverstein
:no: I am no fan of Wylie but the stats the OP put forward cannot be used to ascertain either the efficacy of new or old S/C coaches.
I ascertain that only a full dunce capped cretin would post that.

You have many pinatas El Guapo....:neenerobscure reference of the day) And I would probably say I agree with what you have to say sometimes, but you are such a monumentally arrogant, egotistical full on richard, it makes it extremely difficult to listen to anything you have to say. You are right however, we don't know if the info given is true, but I have no reason to assume that McKeef is just another lying pos at this point. You don't have to have a degreee in physical therapy, or sports medicine, or whatever it is you have studied to know that improvement in strength and speed (assuming our strength coach is not just making crap up) is good.

does this mean they are working out like the 3 amigos?

 

[govols/cc]

If you take 2 people, no make it 5, that are the same age, same height, similar build & put them on extacly the same diet & same training program I promise all will be different at the end of say 6 months. Some will be stronger & faster & bigger than others. None will be exactly the same.
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[lylsmorr]

If you take 2 people, no make it 5, that are the same age, same height, similar build & put them on extacly the same diet & same training program I promise all will be different at the end of say 6 months. Some will be stronger & faster & bigger than others. None will be exactly the same.
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My friend and I did a workout routine together in high school. He was 6' and I'm 5'11". We were both within 5 pounds of 190. Did the same workouts and progressed equally. We must be an anomaly.

 

[bamacheats]

I didn't think I was being ambiguous but let me try to clarify my question. What percentage of the population do you think is capable, regardless of how much training and nutrition is involved, of meeting the marks I set?

Where you seem to have an odd disconnect is that it seems you are taking an "either/or" stance. If you are trying to establish that proper training and nutrition plays a big role in getting anywhere near what YOU are capable of then I don't think anybody is going to disagree with you and I'm sure as hell not. OTOH the genetics factor, I'll call it The Ghost in the Machine, is nothing more than your limits are YOUR limits and differ, markedly even, from others. Sounds like you did a good job of improving your hops...kudos. That was you applying good nutrition and work ethic to increase your level of perfomance. So...you wanna go put those numbers up against those posted by Jordan? Darrel Griffith? David Thompson? Of course not. NO amount of training is going to get you into that club unless you've got the genetics for it. It's that simple. Same way with speed. In the history of electronic timing the 10 second barrier has been broken way less than 100 times. (I believe it's in the 70's) Here's some good trivia for you...the first time it was done was all the way back at the 1968 Olympics. Why does this matter? Because literally hundreds of thousands of people have been trying go under 10.00 for decades and only a comparative handful have done so...and it wasn't for lack of training.

Upshot, don't confuse genetic limitations with training limitations. You are absolutely correct that there's much can be done with the latter but seem oddly recalcitrant in accepting the (pretty obvious) realities of the former.

I see what you're getting at, but that's not what the argument is about. It seems cc has confused you with his circular logic. No one says that any human can equal another with training, cc argues that we INDIVIDUALLY have genetic limits that we can't overcome, that's ridiculous!
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[hndog609]

I see what you're getting at, but that's not what the argument is about. It seems cc has confused you with his circular logic. No one says that any human can equal another with training, cc argues that we INDIVIDUALLY have genetic limits that we can't overcome, that's ridiculous!
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With respect that's not really that different an argument, at least not unless stated incorrectly.

For instance let's take any of those literally thousands of people, and I'm talking ELITE athletes here, that have tried to break 10.00 in the 100 meters. Now remember, we're talking about an individual here. This guy has always been fast. In fact, a damn good athlete period. When on the playground picking teams he never waited long. Once "real" sports started up he wasn't only the fastest guy in school but the fastest guy in the Co. By his Sr year he had a gen-u-wine state title in the 100 and 200 under his belt and a handful of scholarships to run track in college. He had no BS sub-10.4's on his resume. These guys were serious that level too, they owned his butt on that scholly. He ate when they told him and they worked his tail off. Maybe he even pulls down a win at a meet with a 10.25 or so. Here's the thing...that was his personal record. In fact he only goes under 10.3 once more in his entire career. Because he didn't eat right or work hard? Nope...he'd reached his limit. This guy is fast (Most people are so numbed by hearing times run by the likes of Bolt or Gay they don't even understand how godawful fast 10.3 is) but there is nothing, nothing, that is going to turn this guy into an Olympic level sprinter. Ghost in the Machine. Ever wonder why so many sprinters late in they're career take a swing at football? Simple, they aren't getting any faster and can't catch the fastest sprinters. They're CRAZY fast by football standards though.

Think about it...in the measurable events everybody craps out at some point. It's literally definitional. As the times get lower or the bar gets higher or the weight gets heavier this guy gets left behind, then that guy, then that guy and so on until the fastest/strongest/highest emerges. And even THAT guy craps out at some point.

Again, if you're pushing the "There's more to it than genetics" argument I got your back but there IS a limit to what any individual can do. Not to rip of the Army but "Be all that you can be." is just that.

 

[Horace Morris]

Great Results in Just 8 weeks

 

[govols/cc]

I see what you're getting at, but that's not what the argument is about. It seems cc has confused you with his circular logic. No one says that any human can equal another with training, cc argues that we INDIVIDUALLY have genetic limits that we can't overcome, that's ridiculous!
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For you to say we don't have genetic limits is ridiculous. Even with steroids, hgh, or other performance enhancing drugs a person may break their natural limits but there will be a point where "that's it". They just won't get any stronger or bigger.
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