Iran

#3,501
#3,501
LouderVol said:
I don't get a couple things about Israel supposedly needing the US to take out Fodrow. I don't believe they really do, they just want to dangle a target in front of us to get us involved.

1. How would Israel get it done on the ground if they can't get it done via the air? Are those soldiers going to be bringing more ordinance with them than Israel can fly? It literally doesn't make any sense. especially considering Iran would be able to strike back against any ground assault.
2. Israel could just starve them out. don't allow anything in or out for a couple weeks/months. bomb anything that gets close to the area.
3. I would think you could render the site ineffective other ways. the entrances are partially sunken, just collapse the sides to block the entrances. find any air vents and blow them up. yeah it won't reach 100m into the mountain but you don't need to. I would think Israel intel is good enough to find enough to cripple the site.
4. use some sort of wetworks to take it down. another virus, sneak some more cell phone bombs in, drones.

they started this fight, they need to figure out how to end it without our help.
Click to expand...

It was never about nukes. If Iran really was "days away" from a nuke, they would likely have it by now and the US would have tried to bunker bust their underground nuclear facility day one.

It was always about regime change. Nothing else.
 
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#3,504
#3,504
ButchPlz said:
Remember what I posted earlier (and was promptly and oddly told it was a "weird stance")- Israel is launching 10-15 $12M US-taxpayer-funded missiles for every 5-10 $200k Iranian low-tech rockets, and this is still the result we get.

If nothing else we ought to be concerned about our own defenses.

EDIT: from my experience, the modern military industrial base is suffering from the same erosion of quality as the rest of the world. Perfection may not possible, but we should expect more for the amount of our money that gets put into these multi-billion-dollar projects. The most rudimentary of deployed systems runs over $1B in costs throughout its development- what do we think something like a missile defense system costs? For that amount, it better be performing better than this.
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Your numbers are very far off. Missiles for the sling of David are estimated to be 1Mil, the arrow 2.5-3.5 mil. Iranian MRBM’s are 12mil each
 
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#3,505
#3,505
volgr said:
You didnt weaken Russia, that is the point. Economically and militarily, Russia is stronger today than they were 2 years ago. American foreign policy is built on false assumptions that never actually happen. Which is why Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc didnt work out as planned. Now you can add Russia to that list.

Russia isnt defending Iran because it is weak but because they dont have a defensive alliance. Putin just spoke on this the other day. Russia and China are helping Iran where they can without turning this into a broader WW3 type war.
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You didn’t back up your claim. One million dead Ukrainians. What is your source?

When you claim Russia is stronger today, what is your metric?
 
#3,507
#3,507
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Key word: protracted.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. No one punches people in the mouth like United States air power.

When the Chinese people are watching their neighbors get shredded by A10s bbbbbbppppptttt every time they step outside to pee, much less shoot someone, a land invasion becomes much easier.

The only problem is where to put several billion surrendering POWs.
Click to expand...

US planes are cool man don’t get me wrong but it’s silly to assume they don’t have well equipped air craft in comparison…maybe this is exactly why China is ahead in the AI game,our infrastructure is exposed. America has been ran into the ground by people who never cared about it’s people or the constitution,which is why we’re behind on a lot .we’ve mismanaged so much in regards to updating our systems.something that needed to be a long time ago.instead we find out these f**ckers are paying for sex changes on beagles and Sesame Street (our F**** TAX DOLLARS) it’s madness anyways 🤣🤣..the Chinese has always been far greater in technology than we have and it’s because they knew it was the future…China would eliminate us before we ever knew what was going on,based on drones alone…i suggest you watch the Pete hegseth interview with Shawn Ryan…start there….also have you seen Russias bad ass Sukhoi Su-57 or china’s 5th gen fighter…it’s getting crazy wild out here..with aerospace technology…these planes aren’t casually “hitting the breaks and flying right by” it’s crazy cool.
 
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#3,510
#3,510
Smokey123 said:
Your numbers are very far off. Missiles for the sling of David are estimated to be 1Mil, the arrow 2.5-3.5 mil. Iranian MRBM’s are 12mil each
Click to expand...
The Jerusalem Post- trustworthy or not- notes that it costs Israel at least double to repel an Iranian attack. We all should know that it isn't 1:1 defense interceptors:incoming missiles.

www.jpost.com

How expensive was Iran's ballistic missile attack to Israel? | The Jerusalem Post

The unwritten rule is that the interceptor missile always costs more than the missile being intercepted.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com

The numbers I have from people I know likely come from somewhere else- intel on old missiles Iran used to deplete the Israeli defenses, for example. Either way, cost wise, Israel isn't winning. And I find it telling that a key point of the article is that they expect the US taxpayer to keep funding their defense.
 
#3,511
#3,511
LouderVol said:
I don't get a couple things about Israel supposedly needing the US to take out Fodrow. I don't believe they really do, they just want to dangle a target in front of us to get us involved.

1. How would Israel get it done on the ground if they can't get it done via the air? Are those soldiers going to be bringing more ordinance with them than Israel can fly? It literally doesn't make any sense. especially considering Iran would be able to strike back against any ground assault.
2. Israel could just starve them out. don't allow anything in or out for a couple weeks/months. bomb anything that gets close to the area.
3. I would think you could render the site ineffective other ways. the entrances are partially sunken, just collapse the sides to block the entrances. find any air vents and blow them up. yeah it won't reach 100m into the mountain but you don't need to. I would think Israel intel is good enough to find enough to cripple the site.
4. use some sort of wetworks to take it down. another virus, sneak some more cell phone bombs in, drones.

they started this fight, they need to figure out how to end it without our help.
Click to expand...
While I agree completely….can you imagine the freak out if they went with my “starve them out “ plan.

Either way this is not our fight to pay for.
 
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#3,512
#3,512
ButchPlz said:
The Jerusalem Post- trustworthy or not- notes that it costs Israel at least double to repel an Iranian attack. We all should know that it isn't 1:1 defense interceptors:incoming missiles.

www.jpost.com

How expensive was Iran's ballistic missile attack to Israel? | The Jerusalem Post

The unwritten rule is that the interceptor missile always costs more than the missile being intercepted.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com

The numbers I have from people I know likely come from somewhere else- intel on old missiles Iran used to deplete the Israeli defenses, for example. Either way, cost wise, Israel isn't winning. And I find it telling that a key point of the article is that they expect the US taxpayer to keep funding their defense.
Click to expand...
The numbers from that article aren’t close to your numbers either. The defense numbers are what I posted, and there was research done after Iran’s October attack that the missiles they used were estimated 12 mil each. And the last 2 days seems they’ve been using new missiles which likely cost even more. Neither Countries win economically in a war

Iran does have some missiles that are “cheap” but they don’t reach Israel
 
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#3,513
#3,513
Smokey123 said:
The numbers from that article aren’t close to your numbers either. The defense numbers are what I posted, and there was research done after Iran’s October attack that the missiles they used were estimated 12 mil each. And the last 2 days seems they’ve been using new missiles which likely cost even more. Neither Countries win economically in a war

Iran does have some missiles that are “cheap” but they don’t reach Israel
Click to expand...
I just said they weren't. Did you read the middle part of my post?
 
#3,514
#3,514
Iran sure plays a good bot game. It seems like every video's comment section on Youtube related to the Iran-Israel war is full of pro-Iranian government/anti-Israel bots.
 
#3,516
#3,516
Orangeslice13 said:
While I agree completely….can you imagine the freak out if they went with my “starve them out “ plan.

Either way this is not our fight to pay for.
Click to expand...
I would play dumb. "Starve who out? The people who aren't developing Iran's nuclear program? The staff at some facility too important for Iran to allow them to leave?"
 
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#3,517
#3,517
Vol8188 said:
The economic fortunes of China is down stream of trade. Surely you accept that reality?

Demographics is an issue for them today. But in 20-30 years? Maybe not. The one child policy has been gone for almost a decade now.
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This is really a topic for trade/tariff thread, but my point is that China does a lot of trade apart from the US, and we don't control its destiny.
 
#3,519
#3,519
#3,522
#3,522
LouderVol said:
I would play dumb. "Starve who out? The people who aren't developing Iran's nuclear program? The staff at some facility too important for Iran to allow them to leave?"
Click to expand...

He's talking about Gaza after the 10/7 terrorist attacks. Instead of bombing and invading Gaza Israel should have just blockaded Gaza and starved out the inhabitants until they gave up the hostages and Hama.
 
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#3,523
#3,523
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#3,524
#3,524
hog88 said:
Hard to destroy a reinforced structure 300 feet underground.
Click to expand...
Of course, but I was in line of thinking about 2 MOPS and out. The GPS jamming, which would require an operation by itself, by US or Israel, and a campaign to chisel away with 2,000 pounders is more protracted.
 
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