All Time NBA Players Thread - No Jordan vs. Lebron Debate Allowed

#677
#677
SGA is still pretty young. I’m not writing him off so I want to make sure that this isn’t a “SGA doesn’t have the CLUTCH GENE” Bayless rant.

But, the next step in his game is finding go-to spots on the floor. As an unabashed Kobe hater, something I always appreciated during his 2008-2010 run was when his jump shot wasn’t falling or the physicality of the game was knocking him off his drives and he struggled getting to the cup, he had a couple spots in the floor that he could go get a bucket from. Left elbow…right block…left baseline…three dribble drive to his left from the top of the key…he had preplanned moves he knew he worked specifically on to get buckets late.

SGA is just more drive and react instead of “This is my plan to get my shot off. If they do this I’ll hit this guy but I want this shot in this spot.” He’s young, he will eventually get it. But you saw tonight when he got the ball, he didn’t have a plan
 
#680
#680
95 Vol Alum said:
www.yahoo.com

Scottie Pippen says there is no such thing as the GOAT: "I saw a two-time, should have been three-time MVP, not even get picked by his peers"

Scottie Pippen rejects the idea of a singular GOAT, pointing to media-driven narratives as proof that greatness can't be boxed into one name.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
Click to expand...

Totally fine if somebody wants to say there is no way to fairly determine a GOAT with any certainty, but some of these arguments are so funny....he says Jokic "wasn't picked by his peers." When it was just two of his peers picking teams for fun, not to win a title, and this was before Jokic was Jokic. He points out Jokic has 3 MVP's implying that's how we know the pickers were wrong...but he had just said MJ's GOAT narrative was partially propelled by media-driven MVP's. He's got a circular problem there.

And he makes a point about people not giving context to the accomplishments. I think he's arguing with idiots here, because I think most of us do give context. We do consider Bill Russell, despite what he says. But the context is he was on great teams in an era with just 8 franchises, and we also know his profile, and he was a limited offensive player. We count the titles, add the context, and we put him around top 5 all time. My generation does it. So does Pippen's. So does Bill Simmons, who is older Gen Z and the biggest Celtics fan ever.
 
#681
#681
Pre-Draft Hype #1 Picks since LeBron (highest to least hype)

Wemby
Oden
Zion
Davis
Flagg
Griffin
Rose
Towns
Wall
Irving
Simmons
Cade
Howard
Wiggins
Fultz
Edwards
Ayton
Paolo
Bogut
Bargnani
Risacher
Bennett
 
#682
#682
zjcvols said:
Pre-Draft Hype #1 Picks since LeBron (highest to least hype)

Wemby
Oden
Zion
Davis
Flagg
Griffin
Rose
Towns
Wall
Irving
Simmons
Cade
Howard
Wiggins
Fultz
Edwards
Ayton
Paolo
Bogut
Bargnani
Risacher
Bennett
Click to expand...

Do you mean hype as in Zion was a greater sensation than AD?.,...because I don't think anybody would say he was a better prospect. I also think Flagg is a better prospect than Zion.

I always heard the consensus among scouts is that AD was the highest rated college prospect since Tim Duncan and that nobody has quite been at AD's level since.
 
#683
#683
n_huffhines said:
Do you mean hype as in Zion was a greater sensation than AD?.,...because I don't think anybody would say he was a better prospect. I also think Flagg is a better prospect than Zion.
Click to expand...

Some of both. The Zion hype was insane. I think if you did grades Zion was lower than Davis.
 
#685
#685
I'm posting this here simply because it addresses the changing landscape in the NBA with team building. The 2nd apron has changed everything, and the point is to make it hard to keep a stacked team (think big 3 with good role players) together.

On his pod yesterday, Bill Simmons whined about not being able to keep Brown and Tatum together, and why would the league be trying to prevent teams from keeping their 2 guys....paraphrasing, "Isn't this what everybody wants? Homegrown stars that stick with their teams forever?"

Brown and Tatum don't even make up 50% of Boston's salary. If they feel they have to get rid of Brown, it's because they sold out for the title last year, paying Jrue and KP, who they'll have a hell of a time offloading. It worked. They got their title. And they can keep Brown and Tatum together by somehow moving other contracts or by paying the tax and eating the 2nd apron penalties.They have 5 guys making $28m+ next year, and not one of them is a full-time PF/C. Horford and Kornet are out of contract with Boston already $70m over the cap. They did this to themselves. There is nothing in these rules that forces anybody to split up their 2 best players. Only other decisions can put you in that position.
 
#686
#686
n_huffhines said:
I'm posting this here simply because it addresses the changing landscape in the NBA with team building. The 2nd apron has changed everything, and the point is to make it hard to keep a stacked team (think big 3 with good role players) together.

On his pod yesterday, Bill Simmons whined about not being able to keep Brown and Tatum together, and why would the league be trying to prevent teams from keeping their 2 guys....paraphrasing, "Isn't this what everybody wants? Homegrown stars that stick with their teams forever?"

Brown and Tatum don't even make up 50% of Boston's salary. If they feel they have to get rid of Brown, it's because they sold out for the title last year, paying Jrue and KP, who they'll have a hell of a time offloading. It worked. They got their title. And they can keep Brown and Tatum together by somehow moving other contracts or by paying the tax and eating the 2nd apron penalties.They have 5 guys making $28m+ next year, and not one of them is a full-time PF/C. Horford and Kornet are out of contract with Boston already $70m over the cap. They did this to themselves. There is nothing in these rules that forces anybody to split up their 2 best players. Only other decisions can put you in that position.
Click to expand...

Celtics are scheduled to pay Jrue/KP/Hauser $72M next year. That's what is getting them not the two stars.

The next market efficiency is going to be how to maximize non-lottery picks and able to replace players and not overpay guys 5-8 in your rotation (like Denver has been trying to do). It's never been done at a consistent level but to me in this new era you have to be diligent in your draft processes and unearth guys in that range.
 
#687
#687
zjcvols said:
Celtics are scheduled to pay Jrue/KP/Hauser $72M next year. That's what is getting them not the two stars.

The next market efficiency is going to be how to maximize non-lottery picks and able to replace players and not overpay guys 5-8 in your rotation (like Denver has been trying to do). It's never been done at a consistent level but to me in this new era you have to be diligent in your draft processes and unearth guys in that range.
Click to expand...

What was the Beal trade? Four 2nds or something like that? That's the kind of trade the Celtics should be looking for with Jrue (probably can't get it). You get a bunch of bites at the apple, all a chance at a low-cost rotation guy.
 
#688
#688
Shai came into the league saying, "If I do everything right, I can be a rotation guy for a long time." and he conducted himself as a role player for his first few years, which meant he was positively contributing to winning right away (on 2 different teams that over-achieved in making the playoffs). Somehow he parlayed that start to his career into becoming a lead ball-handling MVP without ever being an inefficient player. There were no growing pains where he had to figure things out. The more he took on, the more he justified.

It's a bananas developmental story. Kawhi is like that. Who else had a career like that?
 
#689
#689
n_huffhines said:
Shai came into the league saying, "If I do everything right, I can be a rotation guy for a long time." and he conducted himself as a role player for his first few years, which meant he was positively contributing to winning right away (on 2 different teams that over-achieved in making the playoffs). Somehow he parlayed that start to his career into becoming a lead ball-handling MVP without ever being an inefficient player. There were no growing pains where he had to figure things out. The more he took on, the more he justified.

It's a bananas developmental story. Kawhi is like that. Who else had a career like that?
Click to expand...
the other ai maybe?
 
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