War in Ukraine

#79,978
#79,978
#79,980
#79,980
turbovol said:
The West is continuing to squeeze Putin and Russia, and if the West stays the course, Russia could well implode. The strains are becoming
evident. It was positively stupid for the U.S. and Germany to wait so long before sending long-range missiles to Ukraine and allowing Ukraine
to hit targets in Russia. They handcuffed the Ukrainians even as they were trying to help them. It certainly seems that Ukraine can make things untenable for the Russian military in Crimea, and now we see the Russian economy beginning to suffer. The West needs to continue to work hard to keep sophisticated chips and electronic components from getting into Russia.
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that is not a good thing. for anyone.

remember what happened when we caused Iraq to implode? All those terrorists, and all the damage and harm they caused?

Now imagine that same scenario but with however many more people, and nukes.
 
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#79,982
#79,982
www.businessinsider.com

Ukraine's big strike on Crimea shows how its older missiles can take out Russia's most advanced air defenses

Ukraine's latest claimed attack on Crimea shows how its older missiles from the West can reach and strike even Russia's advanced S-400 air-defense systems.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

Ukraine still fighting the good fight it's good to see.

Strange to think how the current world situation is setting up to be an inverse of wwii with russians frittering their strength away in ukraine as the germans did trying to take Moscow in the last war, and the us set to elect a Hitler-esque figure named trump. And the right in this country as blind to what they've become as germans in the 1930s.
 
#79,983
#79,983
utvolpj said:
A source called the kyiv independent. You're not at all curious why the kyiv independent wouldn't publish Ukranian casualty numbers? I mean, if anyone should have them
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To be honest I haven't even looked for Ukrainian casualties. Its not that they don't matter, but I believe them to be less relevant to the situation of the ongoing war. They are defending their homeland from an attacking force. If this war drags on with no clear end in sight, eventually the cost of life and material to Russia will become too high. Similar to the US and Vietnam, Russia will pull out and this will be over. And just so everyone is clear, I fully understand the "credibility of the source" when posting Russian casualties. However, as others have mentioned, it is a good way to track when something does happen. If the number jumps up for several days, you know one side or the other is running some kind of operation.
 
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#79,984
#79,984
GQA2vcYXcAAeiRW
 
#79,985
#79,985
norrislakevol said:
I'd say it's somewhere just shy of what the Russians have lost. With no air superiority from either side, the laws a ground wars state that the one on the attack suffers more casualties, while the defender suffers less. Since Russia has been on the attack more often then they would naturally suffer a few more casualties.
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Agree, but that most likely that changed once the FABs started dropping about 9 months, which is why all the increase van traffic. The Ukrainians will need drastically more meat to slow this down, or some outside factor not currently a part of the battlefield. They are in the process of robbing Peter to pay Paul, meaning, the men they are taking off the back of the economy will have an impact for putting them up on the line to be a meat shield. That is all these guys are at this point.

So, this was an excellent question which I have been asking for quite some time. You have to have a strategy and there really isn't one. The strategy is pay the comedian until the last Ukrainian.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus..._pov_biden_says_he_hasnt_finished_making_the/
 
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#79,986
#79,986
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
To be honest I haven't even looked for Ukrainian casualties. Its not that they don't matter, but I believe them to be less relevant to the situation of the ongoing war. They are defending their homeland from an attacking force. If this war drags on with no clear end in sight, eventually the cost of life and material to Russia will become too high. Similar to the US and Vietnam, Russia will pull out and this will be over. And just so everyone is clear, I fully understand the "credibility of the source" when posting Russian casualties. However, as others have mentioned, it is a good way to track when something does happen. If the number jumps up for several days, you know one side or the other is running some kind of operation.
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I think different in that they are very relevant. If the us is going to be running a major proxy war aren't we responsible for the deaths we're causing? We've sent the entire Ukranian male population thru a grinder without blinking? There's no moral responsibility?
 
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#79,987
#79,987
utvolpj said:
I think different in that they are very relevant. If the us is going to be running a major proxy war aren't we responsible for the deaths we're causing? We've sent the entire Ukranian male population thru a grinder without blinking? There's no moral responsibility?
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Lol, you don't actually know what a "proxy war" entails, do you?

www.kcl.ac.uk

Is the war in Ukraine a proxy conflict? | Feature from King's College London

GERAINT HUGHES: Ukraine’s western backers were accused by Russia of waging a proxy war, but is this just propaganda or is it a genuine academic debate?
www.kcl.ac.uk
 
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#79,988
#79,988
utvolpj said:
I think different in that they are very relevant. If the us is going to be running a major proxy war aren't we responsible for the deaths we're causing? We've sent the entire Ukranian male population thru a grinder without blinking? There's no moral responsibility?
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Where has the US forced Ukraine to fight here? The presumption of your post is the US caused and is continuing this conflict. That’s a laughable and absurd proposition reinforced by who liked your post.
 
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#79,989
#79,989
#79,990
#79,990
NorthDallas40 said:
Where has the US forced Ukraine to fight here? The presumption of your post is the US caused and is continuing this conflict. That’s a laughable and absurd proposition reinforced by who liked your post.
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It's not laughable or absurd if you go far enough back. This was absolutely pushed by the west and the Ukrainians are proxies

I'm also a grown up and don't worry about or use the like feature
 
#79,991
#79,991
utvolpj said:
It's not laughable or absurd if you go far enough back. This was absolutely pushed by the west and the Ukrainians are proxies

I'm also a grown up and don't worry about or use the like feature
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It’s absolutely laughable and absurd. You’re basically expressing the same “just stop resisting and take it” absurdity of the Putin ass kisser who agreed with your post. If Ukraine wants to fight for their freedom that’s their choice.
 
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#79,992
#79,992
utvolpj said:
It's not laughable or absurd if you go far enough back. This was absolutely pushed by the west and the Ukrainians are proxies

I'm also a grown up and don't worry about or use the like feature
Click to expand...

Lol, that is literally the most ill-informed and/or historical revisionist take on Russia's literal invasion of Ukraine, that has come out since Russia escalated the conflict they began in 2014.
 
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#79,993
#79,993
NorthDallas40 said:
It’s absolutely laughable and absurd. You’re basically expressing the same “just stop resisting and take it” absurdity of the Putin ass kisser who agreed with your post. If Ukraine wants to fight for their freedom that’s their choice.
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No I'm pointing out that this has been planned for decades. We're decimating a country to fight Russia. Again
 
#79,996
#79,996
utvolpj said:
You're about 2 decades short
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Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine in 1994. They decided they'd attempt the Belarus route, and just muck around in Ukraine's politics, but that was stymied by the Ukrainian people in 2004.

They didn't invade until after their Ukrainian version of Lukashenko jumped the gun, ordered the killing of Ukrainians, and then fled the country in 2014.

To have such strong opinions on what is going on in Ukraine, you sure are ignorant of their recent history.
 
#79,997
#79,997
BeardedVol said:
Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine in 1994. They decided they'd attempt the Belarus route, and just muck around in Ukraine's politics, but that was stymied by the Ukrainian people in 2004.

They didn't invade until after their Ukrainian version of Lukashenko jumped the gun, ordered the killing of Ukrainians, and then fled the country in 2014.

To have such strong opinions on what is going on in Ukraine, you sure are ignorant of their recent history.
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The point is this has all the markings of a PNAC plan. It's all the exact same people pulling the same strings they designed in the 90s
 
#79,998
#79,998
utvolpj said:
I think different in that they are very relevant. If the us is going to be running a major proxy war aren't we responsible for the deaths we're causing? We've sent the entire Ukranian male population thru a grinder without blinking? There's no moral responsibility?
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maybe for the Russian deaths. but our stuff isn't killing Ukrainians. at least the majority of it, our stuff isn't immune to friendly fire.

your argument presumes that Russia would peacefully occupy Ukraine without our involvement. their history before this war, and during it, states otherwise.

the only ones forcing Ukrainians to die are the Russians. the Ukrainians choices are die, or die while fighting. I would say there is little to any moral consequences for our part in shifting that from the "die" category to the "die while fighting" category.
 
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#79,999
#79,999
LouderVol said:
maybe for the Russian deaths. but our stuff isn't killing Ukrainians. at least the majority of it, our stuff isn't immune to friendly fire.

your argument presumes that Russia would peacefully occupy Ukraine without our involvement. their history before this war, and during it, states otherwise.

the only ones forcing Ukrainians to die are the Russians. the Ukrainians choices are die, or die while fighting. I would say there is little to any moral consequences for our part in shifting that from the "die" category to the "die while fighting" category.
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No I presume that this has been a long time coming. Ukraine has to fight because they didn't reject us influence into all their affairs.
 
#80,000
#80,000
utvolpj said:
The point is this has all the markings of a PNAC plan. It's all the exact same people pulling the same strings they designed in the 90s
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Based on what evidence?

The US quite literally didn't even pay attention to Ukraine after they turned over their nuclear weapons in accordance with the Budapest Memorandum, until 2008, and then George Bush was shot down by France and Germany on suggesting they be allowed to join NATO.
 
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