War in Ukraine

#76,854
#76,854
BeardedVol said:
Odd, I recall you dodging the questions and refusing to back up you claims with any supporting evidence yesterday as well.
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I didn't dodge I'm just not playing the "be specific" game on a phone. Look it up or don't. Believe the western narrative that's leading us into war or don't. It's not like they have a reason to lie and have ever done it before. I'm sure this one is really about national security. They're super Cereal now
 
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#76,856
#76,856
volinbham said:
I think he claimed that one time actually
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"One of the things I'm always asked is why Americans have sort of lost faith for a while in being able to do big things. If you could do anything at all, Joe, what would you do? I said I'd cure cancer. They looked at me like, why cancer? Because no one thinks we can. That's why, and we can. We ended cancer as we know it," the president said.

Let Putin right off the hook
 
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#76,857
#76,857
utvolpj said:
I didn't dodge I'm just not playing the "be specific" game on a phone. Look it up or don't. Believe the western narrative that's leading us into war or don't. It's not like they have a reason to lie and have ever done it before. I'm sure this one is really about national security. They're super Cereal now
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You couldn't even manage to come up with some vague reason to support your assertions yesterday.

Today you're just making the claim that you've already substantiated your position yesterday.

That would be a lie.
 
#76,858
#76,858
tvolsfan said:
The funny thing is Russia's reasons for invading change constantly.
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Either Russia’s constantly changing narrative is true or our “well organized” government constructed a deep state plot across three administrations of alternating parties spanning +10 years to lure Russia into a war is true.

Hmmmm…
 
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#76,859
#76,859
BeardedVol said:
You couldn't even manage to come up with some vague reason to support your assertions yesterday.

Today you're just making the claim that you've already substantiated your position yesterday.

That would be a lie.
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You not liking the reasons doesn't mean they don't exist. You just believe the west war narrative. How has that affected the world in the past 20yrs?
 
#76,860
#76,860
utvolpj said:
You not liking the reasons doesn't mean they don't exist. You just believe the west war narrative. How has that affected the world in the past 20yrs?
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You provided zero evidence supporting your claims yesterday.

Your statements fall along the same pattern as those made by Volgr and Ras:

1. Make a claim with zero-to-little basis in reality.

2. Get challenged on said claim for lack of supporting factual evidence.

3. Falsely claim that you've already substantiated your claim.

4.Deflect from your original lie by changing to a different subject.

5. Rinse and repeat.
 
#76,861
#76,861
BeardedVol said:
You provided zero evidence supporting your claims yesterday.

Your statements fall along the same pattern as those made by Volgr and Ras:

1. Make a claim with zero-to-little basis in reality.

2. Get challenged on said claim for lack of supporting factual evidence.

3. Falsely claim that you've already substantiated your claim.

4.Deflect from your original lie by changing to a different subject.

5. Rinse and repeat.
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You forgot their “proof” being a pro-Russian telegram channel or an obviously far right conspiracy website
 
#76,862
#76,862
BeardedVol said:
You provided zero evidence supporting your claims yesterday.

Your statements fall along the same pattern as those made by Volgr and Ras:

1. Make a claim with zero-to-little basis in reality.

2. Get challenged on said claim for lack of supporting factual evidence.

3. Falsely claim that you've already substantiated your claim.

4.Deflect from your original lie by changing to a different subject.

5. Rinse and repeat.
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Not at all I simply answered in brief statements since I'm always mobile. Were there expansion assurances revealed in the 90s? Do you believe current Burns or 2008? Do you believe the us govt narrative when it comes to wanting war? Did Germany not see this coming a long time ago? Just examples of the signs that are all there.

The US population does not benefit from a war in Ukraine. Who does?
 
#76,863
#76,863
WestTennesseeVol said:
You forgot their “proof” being a pro-Russian telegram channel or an obviously far right conspiracy website
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Can you link where I ever did that? Just because they aren't mainstream doesn't make them conspiracy theories. Or did you buy the Iraq AQ/Wmd narrative?
 
#76,864
#76,864
utvolpj said:
Not at all I simply answered in brief statements since I'm always mobile. Were there expansion assurances? Do you believe current Burns or 2008? Do you believe the us govt narrative when it comes to wanting war? Did Germany not see this coming a long time ago? Just examples of the signs that are all there.

The US population does not benefit from a war in Ukraine. Who does?
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Substantiate your claims from yesterday, and stop trying to deflect from your inability to do so.
1000006687.png
 
#76,866
#76,866
utvolpj said:
Can you link where I ever did that? Just because they aren't mainstream doesn't make them conspiracy theories. Or did you buy the Iraq AQ/Wmd narrative?
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I can’t link any “proof” you provided, because you have provided none. Also wasn’t necessarily directed at you.

True, but just because they aren’t mainstream doesn’t mean they aren’t conspiracy theories. It works both ways.

I was a kid when WMD’s weren’t found, so not really relevant here.
 
#76,867
#76,867
WestTennesseeVol said:
I can’t link any “proof” you provided, because you have provided none. Also wasn’t necessarily directed at you.

True, but just because they aren’t mainstream doesn’t mean they aren’t conspiracy theories. It works both ways.

I was a kid when WMD’s weren’t found, so not really relevant here.
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You claimed I link telegram or conspiracy blogs. Link?

So if it happened before you were old enough to understand then it isn't relevant? Never took the chance to look at us foreign policy over just the past 2 decades before signing up? Well your stance on Ukraine certainly makes sense now
 
#76,868
#76,868
utvolpj said:
You claimed I link telegram or conspiracy blogs. Link?

So if it happened before you were old enough to understand then it isn't relevant? Never took the chance to look at us foreign policy over just the past 2 decades before signing up? Well your stance on Ukraine certainly makes sense now
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I literally said it wasn’t necessarily directed at you.

The last point is just a personal attack.

Try again.
 
#76,869
#76,869
WestTennesseeVol said:
I literally said it wasn’t necessarily directed at you.

The last point is just a personal attack.

Try again.
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"Necessarily"

It wasn't so much an attack as much as an observation about your understanding of US foreign policy goals. It seems you can't be bothered with anything outside the last couple of years which makes your stance understandable. You have ignored quite a bit of important recent history
 
#76,870
#76,870
utvolpj said:
Plenty in the post you just quoted.

Burns memo. You think that was fake? Was Baker lying? Was Germany wrong? Is Nato expansion a reasonable reason given the decades of info on the subject?
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Is the Burns memo a treaty?

Is a statement by Baker, taken out of context, and directly refuted by Gorbachev a treaty?

No.

You kno what is a treaty though, and one signed by Russia?

The NATO founding act;
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www.nato.int

It's a moot point anyway. As I showed you yesterday, Ukraine had zero NATO prospects before Russia escalated their 2014 invasion on 2/24/2022.

Ukraine was neutral in 2014, and Russia still invaded. They had countless rounds of negotiations with them from 2014-2022, and Russia still escalated the invasion.

No one forced Russia into this position, it was a choice by Putin and his inner circle.

The US didn't 'chase war in Ukraine from 2008-2014' as you tried to claim yesterday.
 
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#76,871
#76,871
utvolpj said:
"Necessarily"

It wasn't so much an attack as much as an observation about your understanding of US foreign policy goals. It seems you can't be bothered with anything outside the last couple of years which makes your stance understandable. You have ignored quite a bit of important recent history
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It was obviously a personal attack, but we’ll move on.

Not sure how you know what my understanding of the “US foreign policy goals” is, you’ve never asked or discussed it, possibly you made it up in your mind. That would make your stance towards me understandable.
 
#76,872
#76,872
BeardedVol said:
Is the Burns memo a treaty?

Is a statement by Baker, taken out of context, and directly refuted by Gorbachev a treaty?

No.

You kno what is a treaty though, and one signed by Russia?

The NATO founding act;
View attachment 626825

Loading…

www.nato.int

It's a moot point anyway. As I showed you yesterday, Ukraine had zero NATO prospects before Russia escalated their 2014 invasion on 2/24/2022.

Ukraine was neutral in 2014, and Russia still invaded. They had countless rounds of negotiations with them from 2014-2022, and Russia still escalated the invasion.

No one forced Russia into this position, it was a choice by Putin and his inner circle.

The US didn't 'chase war in Ukraine from 2008-2014' as you tried to claim yesterday.
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Again you Yada Yada over 2014 and likely western involvement. If the US isn't going to follow your highlighted part...
 
#76,873
#76,873
utvolpj said:
If only there was a non-Nato buffer
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That's true. Ukraine was once one of those countries. Now, we have Finland that is now a NATO country, and if Russia takes Ukraine then they border Poland....a NATO country. Red line or something? Interesting. Russia plays their games, and we play ours.
 
#76,874
#76,874
utvolpj said:
Again you Yada Yada over 2014 and likely western involvement. If the US isn't going to follow your highlighted part...
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"If the US isn't going to follow your highlighted area"?

You struggling with reading comprehension or being willfully obtuse?

That highlighted area is the part of the treaty, where Russia agreed that nations were free to determine their own security arrangements, i.e., choosing to join NATO if they wish.
 
#76,875
#76,875
BeardedVol said:
"If the US isn't going to follow your highlighted area"?

You struggling with reading comprehension or being willfully obtuse?

That highlighted area is the part of the treaty, where Russia agreed that nations were free to determine their own security arrangements, i.e., choosing to join NATO if they wish.
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Own security (choose correctly or the US will find someone who will). We knew Ukraine in nato was a red line in 2008 right? Why push it?
 
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