‘23 LA CB Jordan Matthews (Tennessee)

You have a lot of very good points, as usual. And I do remember Malone being a highly ranked WR but for some reason I remembered Barnett as not being as highly sought after. Maybe because McKenzie and Tuttle were 5 star level guys. I still feel like quite a few of our highest rated commits didn't produce to the level expected....obviously Tuttle was due to a dirty play and recurring injuries.

You can't completely control injuries and sometimes they are just bad luck but I'm of the belief that good coaches and good programs make their own luck. Heupel has has had some guys who have stayed banged up like Small, both Mays brothers, Whitehead, Bumphus and our entire secondary in the spring but all of those guys, except for Whitehead this year and Bumphus last year, have been either able to play through being hurt or come back from their injuries fairly quickly. He seems to put a lot of emphasis on conditioning and functional strength and that will help us keep guys healthy. Honestly, there's not much I don't like about his approach to coaching.
If I remember correctly, Barnett and Hendrix were both 4 stars. It was Hendrix who was getting all the hype here on the boards until practice reports started rolling in. I remember being so excited about Hendrix but it ended up being Barnett who immediately showed out. I would love to get another surprise like that and have someone make an immediate impact.
 
If I remember correctly, Barnett and Hendrix were both 4 stars. It was Hendrix who was getting all the hype here on the boards until practice reports started rolling in. I remember being so excited about Hendrix but it ended up being Barnett who immediately showed out. I would love to get another surprise like that and have someone make an immediate impact.

I do remember watching practice highlights, and you could overhear Butch or Don Mahoney say “D@#^it! Is anyone gonna block No. 9?!?”

It was like that with Da’Rick and Justin Hunter. Everyone wanted to interview Da’Rick, and coaches were like, uhhh watch No. 11 over there.
 
Barnett, Malone, and Jennings were all rated 4*. I blame Jones for what happened with Hurd. At the end, Hurd's actions looked bad but NO competent leader lets a situation get to that point. He went from a die hard homer Vol... the kind you want and UGA gets every year to someone who couldn't get away fast enough. That is a failure of leadership and management of players. In fact, you can blame Jones for the failures of several players. Wharton became a very good WR for Cal. Dewayne Hendrix who apparently couldn't tolerate Jones' coaching style moved on to Pitt and then the NFL. Daniel Helm transferred to Duke and then got drafted.

This is part of why I think Jones in spite of a couple of good years was the worst coach UT has had after Fulmer. The others failed without much talent to work with... he failed with embarrassing amounts of talent even after you subtract the guys who left because his "culture" was toxic.

I don't think the culture under Jones was due to players- legacy or otherwise. He was a used car salesman who thought he was a football innovator and somehow mistook clichés for leadership.

The one thing I like best about Heupel is his apparent leadership and genuine love for his players.


There were some pretty "lively" conversations around here over attrition and injuries. I was in a minority arguing that attrition and high injury rates were both a function of coaching decisions and philosophy that ultimately come back to the HC. Many still wanted to believe that Jones was the right guy who just needed more time.

As you go down the list, there weren't many outright busts and definitely not an unusual number. There are always guys who do not live up to the hype but that was a very talented class by any measure. I was amazed at the number that actually spent some time with an NFL club- Malone, Hurd, Hendrix, Helm, Barnett, Berry, Wolf, Gaulden, Johnson, and Moseley. One third isn't bad. About 2/3 were starters or significant contributors for UT or another high level program.

Jones was better than Dooley and Pruitt because he landed that talent and that’s a huge part of a coach’s job. Jones’ record was far superior to either. Two 9-win seasons and wins over Georgia (2x) and Florida, 3 bowl wins, the Battle at Bristol…all happened under Jones’ watch. And he did it taking over for DD, the worst coach and laziest recruiter in UT history.

Yes, he should’ve achieved more and yes, he should’ve been fired, but to say he’s worse than the other two simply because he actually recruited better talent (maybe the biggest part of his job) is strange.
 
Jones was better than Dooley and Pruitt because he landed that talent and that’s a huge part of a coach’s job. Jones’ record was far superior to either. Two 9-win seasons and wins over Georgia (2x) and Florida, 3 bowl wins, the Battle at Bristol…all happened under Jones’ watch. And he did it taking over for DD, the worst coach and laziest recruiter in UT history.

Yes, he should’ve achieved more and yes, he should’ve been fired, but to say he’s worse than the other two simply because he actually recruited better talent (maybe the biggest part of his job) is strange.
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent
 
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent
Ok crazy...so he can go around punching student athletes in the gut😬
 
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Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent

I agree. In fact, I’m surprised he hasn’t gone that route in coaching. Special Teams are his jam and he’s good at it.
 
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Jones was better than Dooley and Pruitt because he landed that talent and that’s a huge part of a coach’s job. Jones’ record was far superior to either. Two 9-win seasons and wins over Georgia (2x) and Florida, 3 bowl wins, the Battle at Bristol…all happened under Jones’ watch. And he did it taking over for DD, the worst coach and laziest recruiter in UT history.

Yes, he should’ve achieved more and yes, he should’ve been fired, but to say he’s worse than the other two simply because he actually recruited better talent (maybe the biggest part of his job) is strange.
Not really. You are lumping recruiting in with coaching which I am separating as two parts of the job. He brought in talent that Dooley and maybe even Pruitt could have won lots of games with. Yes. Dooley was a lazy recruiter. But with just a little talent they put together a really good O. Wilcox was a very good DC.

Jones wasn't as great of a recruiter as he gets credited. He had a huge legacy class plus some homers like Hurd land in his lap. He did little to earn that. And once things went back to normal... his recruiting took the program a notch lower.
 
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent

There’s a reason why no big time program hasn’t offered him a coaching position.

He’s exactly where he deserves to be.

A bottom dweller.
 
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent
Not crazy... but that's a very stupid idea. He recruited one of the "easiest" classes UT has ever had. There were TN kids that weren't interested in going elsewhere plus legacy players. When you look at the highly ranked '15 class, how good was it really?

McKenzie was a bust as were Phillips and Richmond. P Williams was a complete flake. Tuttle and Jack Jones were both injured. Kirkland? Abernathy was a "good" but not 4* player. Butcher, Dormady, Sapp?

So either he absolutely sucked as a coach (which he did) and you wouldn't want him for anything higher than Saban's coffee boy... or he paid too much attention to media hype and couldn't evaluate talent. His next two classes set UT up for decline.... and of course the "gift" of Guarantano.
 
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent

Ban worthy comment. Butch on the home team sideline at Neyland wearing the power T.

60C92DAB-9902-4BEF-9A04-55F7DB1DA213.gif
 
Not really. You are lumping recruiting in with coaching which I am separating as two parts of the job. He brought in talent that Dooley and maybe even Pruitt could have won lots of games with. Yes. Dooley was a lazy recruiter. But with just a little talent they put together a really good O. Wilcox was a very good DC.

Jones wasn't as great of a recruiter as he gets credited. He had a huge legacy class plus some homers like Hurd land in his lap. He did little to earn that. And once things went back to normal... his recruiting took the program a notch lower.

Right. You’re separating recruiting from coaching. And you can’t. Because recruiting is the biggest part of the job.

Jalen Hurd didn’t have UT in his top 5 before Butch arrived. Marquez North was going to UNC. Dobbs wasn’t going to UT. TKJr was headed to Bama with his sister before Butch turned that recruitment around. The Berrys were leaning to Auburn.

You can say Butch benefitted from the legacies and instate kids all you want, but they weren’t coming to UT under Dooley. Besides, which legacies really made an impact? Wharton transferred, McKenzie was a bust, Jenkins did nothing, and like I said, TK2 wasn’t going to UT. Evan Berry was obviously an elite KR, but the twins probably go to Auburn if DD remains.

Butch made his hay with Dobbs, AK, Hurd, Malone, Jennings, Tuttle, Barnett, Kirkland, John Kelly, etc. Dooley probably lands none of those (as an aside, their recruitment of Malone to pull him from Georgia was one of the better recruiting jobs in America that year and there’s no way Doofus pulls that off).

Like it or not, the best moments you’ve experienced as a UT fan since 2007 are because of Butch Jones. And you can’t dismiss the fact that he recruited that talent. That’s the job.
 
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent

Your crazy 1661006743896.gif
 
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Not crazy... but that's a very stupid idea. He recruited one of the "easiest" classes UT has ever had. There were TN kids that weren't interested in going elsewhere plus legacy players. When you look at the highly ranked '15 class, how good was it really?

McKenzie was a bust as were Phillips and Richmond. P Williams was a complete flake. Tuttle and Jack Jones were both injured. Kirkland? Abernathy was a "good" but not 4* player. Butcher, Dormady, Sapp?

So either he absolutely sucked as a coach (which he did) and you wouldn't want him for anything higher than Saban's coffee boy... or he paid too much attention to media hype and couldn't evaluate talent. His next two classes set UT up for decline.... and of course the "gift" of Guarantano.
He CLOSED on highly rated talent…which the great HC’s do. But the law firm of Saban, Meyer and Swinney build a team WITH the talent. Culture and development separate the classes. Butch was tireless and hardworking but focus and long range organization was weak. I have no doubt he was better than Dooley or Pruitt…but that’s the tallest little person argument. Dooley couldn’t close in recruiting after his initial class and wasted the capable hires with no real direction which has to come from the main guy. Pruitt trumped the other two in micromanaging tho they medaled. Strangely he was inferior to Butch in closing. Your first paragraph I have to strongly disagree with. Hurd, Barnett and Kelly were highly sought and bound for out of state while Dooley was at the helm. Hurd and Barnett for tOSU and Kelly for Bama. Saban never gave up pursuing Hurd til past NSD and even offered Gaulden on that day in an arrogant move that would’ve flipped under Dooley. I’m sure none of this changes your mindset because you put a lot of thought into your narrative. Just explaining why I strongly differ with you.
 
Not really. You are lumping recruiting in with coaching which I am separating as two parts of the job. He brought in talent that Dooley and maybe even Pruitt could have won lots of games with. Yes. Dooley was a lazy recruiter. But with just a little talent they put together a really good O. Wilcox was a very good DC.

Jones wasn't as great of a recruiter as he gets credited. He had a huge legacy class plus some homers like Hurd land in his lap. He did little to earn that. And once things went back to normal... his recruiting took the program a notch lower.
You can’t separate the two at college level. Recruiting is most of the job. There’s been several decent coaches win national titles bc of extraordinary talent.
 
Call me crazy, but I would absolutely love to have Butch as a special teams coach on this staff with how good he recruited and considering our special teams were always the best in the country. He’s by no means a HC at any level, but he brought in incredible talent
The photos of him smoking those cigars with Bama players after they beat us is more than enough for me to say he absolutely should never be allowed on campus, ever again.
 
Jones got that recruiting class because he lied to a bunch of them and they ended up resenting him for it, many transferring later or giving us a toxic atmosphere. By his fifth year, Jones was 0-8 in the SEC and provided us our only 8 loss season in the 131 year history of our program. He was absolutely the worst coach we've ever had. We were set up for an epic run in the middle 2010s with the legacies, TN kids who wanted to play for us, and a few high level players like Trevor Lawrence who had grown up unusually as Vol fans and he ruined it. Epically ruined it. He was so bad I still check Arkansas State scores to revel in his losses. The worst.
 
Jones got that recruiting class because he lied to a bunch of them and they ended up resenting him for it, many transferring later or giving us a toxic atmosphere. By his fifth year, Jones was 0-8 in the SEC and provided us our only 8 loss season in the 131 year history of our program. He was absolutely the worst coach we've ever had. We were set up for an epic run in the middle 2010s with the legacies, TN kids who wanted to play for us, and a few high level players like Trevor Lawrence who had grown up unusually as Vol fans and he ruined it. Epically ruined it. He was so bad I still check Arkansas State scores to revel in his losses. The worst.
Agreed! THE WORST

Yeah Dooley was just in over his head. Pruitt was a piece of Cornbread, but watching Butch squander every opportunity and tank the program so bad is the worst. He was also just so FAKE. Can't stand him.
 
You can’t separate the two at college level. Recruiting is most of the job. There’s been several decent coaches win national titles bc of extraordinary talent.
Sure you can. You can't separate the two completely when it comes to winning and building a great program. But coaching and recruiting are two distinct and separate things. If you prefer development to "coaching" then that's fine. One is getting talent. The other is leading, managing, and developing it.
 

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