Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

[MoCo_Vol]

Thought we were talking at the conference level.

Oh...my mistake then.

I think you're right that at that level you can enforce things on the schools more. Since the SEC controls a lot of the money flow they can (and have already) decide who will be a have or have not.

 

[LA Vol]

Enforcing NIL is something nobody wants-- or is staffed-- to do. Rules have to be written, approved, then enforced. Meanwhile, schools who've figured it out are executing to plan. Early adopters are getting a huge leg up while the laggards bemoan their fate, the risk averse lose out, the media supports whatever narrative gets clicks and those who could be in charge play hot potato. It will sort itself out eventually in supply-demand fashion.

 

[Vols410]

NIL was always a hornet's nest, and the NCAA was never going to be able to control it. Issuing weak interim guidelines was futile and shows how powerless the NCAA is as an enforcer. Legal departments have been all over this for more than a year, and some like UT, were agile in planning, executing and adapting, with alumni, donor and state support.

Schools that can capitalize are making it work for them; schools that can't execute are mad and crying foul. Saban can cry all the way to retirement. If he had the foresight, money and backing other schools have, he would be trying to steer Sankey in a different direction. The NCAA does not have the resources to evaluate and sanction-- they never will-- and they don't want the legal backlash that would trigger. Schools like UT, with collectives like Spyre, are working within state law and NCAA guidelines, and have the support of legal teams with documentation of full compliance. Challenge that, or selectively enforce deals, and lawsuits will be swiftly filed. Meanwhile, schools will keep doing what they're doing with state backing.

There's no going back, and some schools will be left behind. Transfer portal and NIL changed college sports forever. It's a different landscape, and a new power structure is in play. Creating and managing the deals is just the tip of the iceberg.

Helpful, informative, and encouraging. Thanks for posting LA.

 

[thistime]

The funny thing about the NIL is players are paid for name, image and likeness......fair enough but it should also include services. Make no mistake they are being paid to play for a team not just for a picture of them playing. That is the difference from what it is now and what it was originally intended........but I could be wrong. I take SKITTLES by the hand full and play with coloring books and Crayons in the corner of my little room, sooooooo.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

We lost last night!?

Fahr Tony!

 

[Voltime123]

The funny thing about the NIL is players are paid for name, image and likeness......fair enough but it should also include services. Make no mistake they are being paid to play for a team not just for a picture of them playing. That is the difference from what it is now and what it was originally intended........but I could be wrong. I take SKITTLES by the hand full and play with coloring books and Crayons in the corner of my little room, sooooooo.

Nothing in writing from Spyre makes a player sign on the dotted line to a particular university…nor can the ncaa prove that is what they are doing

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

For a long time, Georgia was labelled an underperformer, purportedly due to poor coaching. Smack in the middle of the most fertile recruiting region of the country, but suffering from the longest championship drought among SEC big 6 teams. Then they get a new coach and finally win one in his 6th season, after coming close in his 2nd season.

I know it's not an idea that will receive support on this board, but I'm skeptical that Kirby Smart in his first head coaching job became one of the godfathers of college football and suddenly UGA was permitted to cheat with impunity, above and beyond its rivals. I think he's a good program CEO and a good defensive mind, made some good hires, and created a buzz that helped UGA's normally good recruiting get even better. Sort of what Josh Heupel is trying to do right now and kind of typical for any program that rises above their recent history to win a championship.

Sure...ATL told us as soon as Kirby was hired that the Dawgs bagman system went into overdrive and they would start stacking Bama type classes...months before it actually happened. He said that our bagmen could not compete with the money being thrown out by UGA.

Of course you don't want to admit it, you want to believe in the fairytale and I get it...I personally gave up believing that dumb about our program in the 90s a loooooong time ago.

It took dumbass 6 years of top 3 average classes to finally win. Give him equal talent and UGA ain't winning anything.

 

[Theshag]

View attachment 453252

Now if you drop a dot for each school and where they are located, it's pretty easy to see who is going to become a "have not" because their state isn't as rich.

Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Louisiana (may luck out though as they don't have any other big in-state schools to compete with)
Alabama
Mississippi


The schools in states that 1. aren't as poor and 2. willing to push sports that will become better because of this
Texas
Florida
Tennessee


What's interesting to me is a few unexpected states that are rich but also have the potential to really create something if they pushed it

Washington
Colorado
Virginia
Illinois


Obviously though some states are outliners...Alaska and Hawaii for example, they are "rich" by this chart, but mostly because of how low the population is and how wealthy you have to be to live there.

It isn't really about overall wealth of each state, it's about having an outlier individual willing to bankroll the deals. Bill Gates could decide tomorrow that the technical schools should be the best at football and put $100M toward NIL at Cal Berkeley, Stanford, GT, and like, MIT if he wanted. Arkansas is ranked 42, but there are some very wealthy Ark alumnus and they are in Walmart country.

 

[thistime]

NIL was always a hornet's nest, and the NCAA was never going to be able to control it. Issuing weak interim guidelines was futile and shows how powerless the NCAA is as an enforcer. Legal departments have been all over this for more than a year, and some like UT, were agile in planning, executing and adapting, with alumni, donor and state support.

Schools that can capitalize are making it work for them; schools that can't execute are mad and crying foul. Saban can cry all the way to retirement. If he had the foresight, money and backing other schools have, he would be trying to steer Sankey in a different direction. The NCAA does not have the resources to evaluate and sanction-- they never will-- and they don't want the legal backlash that would trigger. Schools like UT, with collectives like Spyre, are working within state law and NCAA guidelines, and have the support of legal teams with documentation of full compliance. Challenge that, or selectively enforce deals, and lawsuits will be swiftly filed. Meanwhile, schools will keep doing what they're doing with state backing.

There's no going back, and some schools will be left behind. Transfer portal and NIL changed college sports forever. It's a different landscape, and a new power structure is in play. Creating and managing the deals is just the tip of the iceberg.

That is exactly what has and is happening and so many don't like it. I never have liked the pay to play thing and I never liked the under the table payoffs either but I'm just a simple person that just enjoy's sports for just that sport. I know it has never been above board and from this point on The Wild West will ensue until A.) The market adjust, B.) Lawsuits and C.) Development of another league. It never ceases to amaze how simple can be made difficult but then again money is involved so nothing is simple.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

I wear long sleeves everyday because of my arm sleeve, sucks.

I wish I would have just spent the money on my legs. I appreciate the response!

Low key trying to get the monstars on my leg, starting at the upper thigh going down into Bugs, Lola, daffy, and then michael holding the special juice, finishing up around the calf area.

You cover it up for work? Man, even corporate America has seemed to stop caring about sleeve tattoos, at least everywhere I’ve worked. I’m sure certain particular industries/careers are different, but I still feel like the overall issues with tattoos has gone way down in most corporations.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

For a long time, Georgia was labelled an underperformer, purportedly due to poor coaching. Smack in the middle of the most fertile recruiting region of the country, but suffering from the longest championship drought among SEC big 6 teams. Then they get a new coach and finally win one in his 6th season, after coming close in his 2nd season.

I know it's not an idea that will receive support on this board, but I'm skeptical that Kirby Smart in the early years of his first head coaching job became one of the godfathers of college football and suddenly UGA was permitted to cheat with impunity, above and beyond its rivals. I think he's a good program CEO and a good defensive mind, made some good hires, and created a buzz that helped UGA's normally good recruiting get even better. Sort of what Josh Heupel is trying to do right now and its a reasonable path for a program to rise above their recent history to win a championship.

Lets not be naive here, Kirby is dropping bags, no doubts at all.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

It isn't really about overall wealth of each state, it's about having an outlier individual willing to bankroll the deals. Bill Gates could decide tomorrow that the technical schools should be the best at football and put $100M toward NIL at Cal Berkeley, Stanford, GT, and like, MIT if he wanted. Arkansas is ranked 42, but there are some very wealthy Ark alumnus and they are in Walmart country.

Not saying that can't happen. I'm just using tangible data to support a point that I believe has lead to the uproar from Saban/Bama (specifically) over NIL execution.

Lots of money in California for example, but the bulk of that wealth doesn't care about college football for the most part. They have so many teams in that state it's really hard to see them collectively pushing anyone to the top of the pile. I mean USC will always have the potential and UCLA in basketball does so as well. But who knows if it'll happen.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

You cover it up for work? Man, even corporate America has seemed to stop caring about sleeve tattoos, at least everywhere I’ve worked. I’m sure certain particular industries/careers are different, but I still feel like the overall issues with tattoos has gone way down in most corporations.

It's cause he's got a big old PP on his arm and he don't wanna admit it!

 

[DawgInterloper]

Sure...ATL told us as soon as Kirby was hired that the Dawgs bagman system went into overdrive and they would start stacking Bama type classes...months before it actually happened. He said that our bagmen could not compete with the money being thrown out by UGA.

Of course you don't want to admit it, you want to believe in the fairytale and I get it...I personally gave up believing that dumb about our program in the 90s a loooooong time ago.

It took dumbass 6 years of top 3 average classes to finally win. Give him equal talent and UGA ain't winning anything.

And the SEC champs, 13-2 season with an overtime championship loss in year two was due to paying off officials? Or was that because he was using Mark Richt's lower rated players?

Sorry, couldn't resist. It's your board, your narrative reigns.

 

[peaygolf]

All Gas, No Brakes: Texas RB Bijan Robinson inks NIL deal with local Lamborghini dealer

Smart dude!

 

[MoCo_Vol]

For a long time, Georgia was labelled an underperformer, purportedly due to poor coaching. Smack in the middle of the most fertile recruiting region of the country, but suffering from the longest championship drought among SEC big 6 teams. Then they get a new coach and finally win one in his 6th season, after coming close in his 2nd season.

I know it's not an idea that will receive support on this board, but I'm skeptical that Kirby Smart in the early years of his first head coaching job became one of the godfathers of college football and suddenly UGA was permitted to cheat with impunity, above and beyond its rivals. I think he's a good program CEO and a good defensive mind, made some good hires, and created a buzz that helped UGA's normally good recruiting get even better. Sort of what Josh Heupel is trying to do right now and its a reasonable path for a program to rise above their recent history to win a championship.

I really don't know if you believe that... I mean you think Mark Richt going to Miami after Georgia is a coincidence? Or that he's no longer in coaching at all despite having exactly 1 losing season in his entire career as a HC.

Georgia didn't "suddenly" become dirty under Kirby. Hell I'd say Heupel is the first coach that TN has had where we may legitimately be running a nearly completely clean program. I am as much a TN homer as anyone, but I'm not orange blinded to the point I don't think we're bending as many rules as we can. And some staffs straight up broke them.

Bruce Pearl isn't clean and likely never has been. Didn't make me dislike the success he fostered here any less though. But it always comes down to where the money is, if someone can make profit then there will without a doubt be cheating in that system. NCAA College Football is big money so I assume most big time programs are dirty and the level of how dirty is open for debate. With the new NIL stuff though there will be a way to do the same thing without being "dirty" and some people won't have as big of a piece of the pie because more teams with the means are going to be willing to do it now that it can be done clean.

 

[SugarCC]

The truth hurts. We TN fans can try and say otherwise but you cannot name 2 better coaches. If you can then put their records head to head and see. I hate them both but it’s them and everyone else.

 

[Theshag]

Not saying that can't happen. I'm just using tangible data to support a point that I believe has lead to the uproar from Saban/Bama (specifically) over NIL execution.

Lots of money in California for example, but the bulk of that wealth doesn't care about college football for the most part. They have so many teams in that state it's really hard to see them collectively pushing anyone to the top of the pile. I mean USC will always have the potential and UCLA in basketball does so as well. But who knows if it'll happen.

I buy the Bama argument. That whole state comes together to support their football team, but I haven't heard any top line boosters who could bankroll a big NIL deal.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Is it less naive to believe every other team was playing by the rules though? I mean we have pretty strong evidence, even at Pruitt's worst, we were cheating our ass off.

I never said every other team wasn't cheating.

All major programs have done it. The difference is that a blind eye is turned on some schools and some schools have figured out a way to not get caught.

Now that it's legal, the programs that benefited from illegal methods are mad. They do not want to lose their advantage.

It's absolutely naive to think that there aren't particular schools in each conference that are given leeway concerning the rules and regulations. Conferences are built on money, respect and power. They will protect their best teams in order to maintain a level of dominance nationally.

Now that those front-runners have lost the ability to cheat at such a high level, they are mad. Their ego wants to maintain their success and they will oppose anything that threatens any advantage they have.

 

[drvenner]

It truly is a relic of a bygone era. College football is a multi-billion $ industry, and the NCAA is tasked to keep its veneer as an extracurricular, intramural hobby intact.

My good man, I take great umbrage at being called an extracurricular hobby.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

And the SEC champs, 13-2 season with an overtime championship loss in year two was due to paying off officials? Or was that because he was using Mark Richt's lower rated players?

Sorry, couldn't resist. It's your board, your narrative reigns.

Believe what you will.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Sure...ATL told us as soon as Kirby was hired that the Dawgs bagman system went into overdrive and they would start stacking Bama type classes...months before it actually happened. He said that our bagmen could not compete with the money being thrown out by UGA.

Of course you don't want to admit it, you want to believe in the fairytale and I get it...I personally gave up believing that dumb about our program in the 90s a loooooong time ago.

It took dumbass 6 years of top 3 average classes to finally win. Give him equal talent and UGA ain't winning anything.

If someone has trouble grasping that Bama has been paying players for years, all they have to do is look at Pruitt. He did nothing here that wasn't common practice in Alabama. That's why he was so cavalier here.

 

[RiotVol]

I really don't know if you believe that... I mean you think Mark Richt going to Miami after Georgia is a coincidence? Or that he's no longer in coach at all despite having exactly 1 losing season in his entire career as a HC.

Georgia didn't "suddenly" become dirty under Kirby. Hell I'd say Heupel is the first coach that TN has had where we may legitimately be running a nearly completely clean program. I am as much a TN homer as anyone, but I'm not orange blinded to the point I don't think we're bending as many rules as we can. And some staffs straight up broke them.

Bruce Pearl isn't clean and likely never has been. Didn't make me dislike the success he fostered here any less though. But it always comes down to where the money is, if someone can make profit then there will without a doubt be cheating in that system. NCAA College Football is big money so I assume most big time programs are dirty and the level of how dirty is open for debate. With the new NIL stuff though there will be a way to do the same thing without being "dirty" and some people won't have as big of a piece of the pie because more teams with the means are going to be willing to do it now that it can be done clean.

I think we are about to have the deadly combo of an exciting brand of football, an elite fanbase, and a smart AD with a killer instinct.

Feels like we are finally playing to win, and doing it smarter than our rivals for a change.

 

[Orange.]

I think we are about to have the deadly combo of an exciting brand of football, an elite fanbase, and a smart AD with a killer instinct.

Feels like we are finally playing to win, and doing it smarter than our rivals for a change.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

NIL was always a hornet's nest, and the NCAA was never going to be able to control it. Issuing weak interim guidelines was futile and shows how powerless the NCAA is as an enforcer. Legal departments have been all over this for more than a year, and some like UT, were agile in planning, executing and adapting, with alumni, donor and state support.

Schools that can capitalize are making it work for them; schools that can't execute are mad and crying foul. Saban can cry all the way to retirement. If he had the foresight, money and backing other schools have, he would be trying to steer Sankey in a different direction. The NCAA does not have the resources to evaluate and sanction-- they never will-- and they don't want the legal backlash that would trigger. Schools like UT, with collectives like Spyre, are working within state law and NCAA guidelines, and have the support of legal teams with documentation of full compliance. Challenge that, or selectively enforce deals, and lawsuits will be swiftly filed. Meanwhile, schools will keep doing what they're doing with state backing.

There's no going back, and some schools will be left behind. Transfer portal and NIL changed college sports forever. It's a different landscape, and a new power structure is in play. Creating and managing the deals is just the tip of the iceberg.

And the best thing that’s coming from all of this… THE SLEEPING GIANT OF TENNESSEE HAS BEEN AWAKENED!!! It started with having a president that gives 2 cents about our athletics, and hiring a legit AD who knows exactly what he’s doing and how to make the programs elite. Then, he hired the right guy that he knew was capable to lead the Big Orange back to its rightful place amongst the elite. The NIL and Spyre are expediting the process, and putting nails in everyone else’s coffins! Only one thing left to do…


LETTUCE GO!