War in Ukraine

#26,027
#26,027
landscapingvol said:
He hasn’t come close to losing everything politically or personally and that is what it would take to destroy the World which is what would happen. In the end, he is still just a very wealthy autocrat who loves his money and lifestyle. He would have neither. It’s the same issue with NK. He loves his power and lifestyle
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It sounds like we both agree on how he would act if he reaches that nadir. We just differ on believing that nadir will occur. Ultimately Putin controls that too. If Ukraine wins and is successful in repulsing Russia (and I think they move on Crimea if they win in Donbas) then it gets back to can Putin’s ego absorb the slap. It’s also possible the back room dealing has the West telling Zelenskyy if he moves on Crimea he does it alone. Which I’d expect them to do. I just wonder if Zelenskyy will dime them out in a very public appeal when that time comes. I would if I were him.
 
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#26,029
#26,029
NorthDallas40 said:
It sounds like we both agree on how he would act if he reaches that nadir. We just differ on believing that nadir will occur. Ultimately Putin controls that too. If Ukraine wins and is successful in repulsing Russia (and I think they move on Crimea if they win in Donbas) then it gets back to can Putin’s ego absorb the slap. It’s also possible the back room dealing has the West telling Zelenskyy if he moves on Crimea he does it alone. Which I’d expect them to do. I just wonder if Zelenskyy will dime them out in a very public appeal when that time comes. I would if I were him.
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He may launch one tomorrow but for our sakes I hope I am right because it would not end well. It may not lead to nuclear annihilation but it would definitely lead to a all out war in Europe with us being in the middle of it. After that all bets are off the table as to what the endgame would be
 
#26,031
#26,031
landscapingvol said:
He may launch one tomorrow but for our sakes I hope I am right because it would not end well. It may not lead to nuclear annihilation but it would definitely lead to a all out war in Europe with us being in the middle of it. After that all bets are off the table as to what the endgame would be
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I hope you’re right as well to be clear. It’s just right now I think if Ukraine is successful in repulsing the invading Russian bastards there will be some level of nuclear exchange.
 
#26,035
#26,035
MontyPython said:
Man let's pray to God Putin isn't insane enough to go nuclear. It just ends horribly for everyone. He has to know this, but if he's losing badly and thinks he'll be deposed (i.e. fall out a window), he might be like, "well, I guess I'll go out swinging".

Lord.
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Mutually Assured Destruction. What could possibly go wrong? The acronym it is known by says it all.
 
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#26,037
#26,037
NorthDallas40 said:
What the hell has he done thus far to make you think that he isn’t that stupid? If anything Russia’s behavior thus far has just reinforced how stupid and incompetent they are 🤷‍♂️
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Putin never seriously considered the possibility that Ukraine would resist so fiercely and effectively. It was an incredible miscalculation that speaks of unmatched hubris. His „worst case“ scenario was probably Ukraine holding out for a week instead of three days. He had no real Plan B and it shows
 
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#26,038
#26,038
Vol737 said:
Which is why we will have to be reliant on his inner circle having other ideas. One would hope they see the fallacy in his approach to all of this.
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Yea. I think we have to hope and pray there are back channel relationships established and/or what you are saying…people in places of command with some good sense.
 
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#26,039
#26,039
NorthDallas40 said:
First they have to take it. Then if they actually take it they have to hold it. The crown jewel in this whole effort is the deep water harbor and naval base in Sevastopol. If Russia loses that port they have no feasible year round naval port. Thus if Crimea actually goes in play Putin will go nuclear.
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Hopefully Hillary will find out the Pootin has some dirt on her before he has the chance to go nuclear.
 
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#26,041
#26,041
OrangeTsar said:
Putin never seriously considered the possibility that Ukraine would resist so fiercely and effectively. It was an incredible miscalculation that speaks of unmatched hubris. His „worst case“ scenario was probably Ukraine holding out for a week instead of three days. He had no real Plan B and it shows
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Putin being a kleptocrat himself may not have known that his friends, appointees, contractors and generals were stealing as much or more than he was. Russias defense appropriations may have been so deeply pirated that it has left its military in the condition we see today.
 
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#26,047
#26,047
It isn't 1945, Russia isn't being invaded and Putin isn't being cornered in his own country. I'm not seeing the Hitler analogy.
 
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#26,048
#26,048
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Kievan_Rus'
According to some reports, Vladimir Putin is obsessed with this history. Taking Ukraine would be like reuniting with family to him. The Ukrainians seem to have a different view of their history.

Kievan Rus′ was the early, mostly East Slavic state dominated by the city of Kiev from about 880 C.E. to the middle of the twelfth century. People speaking East Slavic dialects were known from the ninth century as Rus (also referred to as ancient Russians or Ruthenians). Later, they diverged into three major nations—modern Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians, and also into several minor ethnic groups, including Carpatho-Ruthenians. From the historiographical point of view, Kievan Rus' is considered a predecessor state of three modern East Slavic nations: Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. The reigns of Vladimir the Great (980-1015) and his son Yaroslav I the Wise (1019-1054) constitute the Golden Age of Kiev, which saw the acceptance of Orthodox Christianity and the creation of the first East Slavic written legal code, the Russkaya Pravda.

Kievan Rus' played an important role not only in the development of Russia, but in Europe as well. It was situated on two important trade routes, the Volga route to Scandinavian lands, and the caravan route connecting Europe to the Muslim nations. As a major trade partner Kievan Rus' served as a buffer for the rest of Europe against the invasions of the Golden Horde. Kiev stood at the crossroads between East and West. The civilizations that it spawned would ultimately shape world history.

The Golden Age of Kiev

The region of Kiev dominated the state of Kievan Rus′ for the next two centuries. The grand prince (velikiy kniaz') of Kiev controlled the lands around the city, and his theoretically subordinate relatives ruled in other cities and paid him tribute. The zenith of the state's power came during the reigns of Prince Vladimir (Vladimir the Great, r. 980-1015) and Prince Yaroslav (the Wise; r. 1019-1054). Both rulers continued the steady expansion of Kievan Rus′ that had begun under Oleg.
 
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