Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

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#104,053
#104,053
butchna said:
Weak exhibit. Those are WINS that he had a big part in. He doesn't make every play possible against Atlanta and THEY have a "team win". Defense that set the Falcons up with (what should have been) an insurmountable lead were MORE responsible in that particular WIN? It's the totality of his work that's lead to my opinion...he just so happens to be credited with a lot of SB's. Maybe because he's made so many plays when they were need over a long period of time. Belichick I believe has one playoff win without Brady. That's one helluva exhibit Z.
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Yes, Brady's last two SB wins his opponents scored a combined 12 points. Don't take a lot of great plays from Brady to win those games. TEAM.

Take Brady's top 10 defenses away from him and how many of those wins that you mentioned above does he have?
 
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#104,054
#104,054
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Yes, Brady's last two SB wins his opponents scored a combined 12 points. Don't take a lot of great plays from Brady to win those games. TEAM.

Take Brady's top 10 defenses away from him and how many of those wins that you mentioned above does he have?
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His first super bowl….. he threw for 145 yds in a win
 
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#104,056
#104,056
Bassmaster_Vol said:
He's in the conversation. But if you ask anyone why Brady is the goat they start screaming Super Bowl wins as though team wins means that an individual is the GOAT. It's a team sport, it's not tennis.

Just take the last few superbowls that Brady has won:

Tom Brady's defense held Pat Mahomes to 9 points. 9. Tom Brady did not do that. His defense did.

In 2019, The Pat's defense held the Rams to 3 points. 3 points. Heck, his offense only scored 13. Brady didn't even have a touchdown pass. But that win means he's the goat, huh?

The Falcons scored 1 touchdown in the second half. If they score 10 points, Brady loses. He had nothing to do with that, but gets all the credit.

Of course, lets not forget if Carroll just hands the ball off to Beast Mode Brady likely loses that one too. His defense made a play to win the game while he was on the sideline.

It's a team sport. Super Bowl wins does not mean you're the goat. And that's not even to mention the multiple times they have been caught cheating but I digress.

If he gets credit for all those wins, then he should take blame for all his losses too. That loss tonight was all on him
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You typed all that and you left out one of the best kickers ever in the NFL that helped him win 2 or 3. Plus the idiotic tuck rule that was never called in the history of the NFL but GAVE Brady his first SB appearance.
 
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#104,057
#104,057
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Yes, Brady's last two SB wins his opponents scored a combined 12 points. Don't take a lot of great plays from Brady to win those games. TEAM.

Take Brady's top 10 defenses away from him and how many of those wins that you mentioned above does he have?
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I don't think he's ever played with TEN modern day Monsters of the Midway. Belichick is a defensive genius who schools them up really well, but he left Lawrence Taylor in NY. Brady's defenses have always known they just need to keep it within breathing room and Brady can do something with it...never knocked out. Allows them to play looser and lends to gamebreaking imo.
 
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#104,059
#104,059
butchna said:
I don't think he's ever played with TEN modern day Monsters of the Midway. Belichick is a defensive genius who schools them up really well, but he left Lawrence Taylor in NY. Brady's defenses have always known they just need to keep it within breathing room and Brady can do something with it...never knocked out. Allows them to play looser and lends to gamebreaking imo.
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All of that is fair. Give Peyton those defenses and how many more wins does he have? Give Pat Mahomes those defenses and he may have 3 SB's already.
 
#104,061
#104,061
I get it. People here hate Tom Brady. He can be smug and isn’t easily likable, so that’s understandable, but the circle being run to explain away all of his accomplishments is just hilarious. First it was that he had great defenses, now it’s he had a great kicker.

Justin Tucker is arguably the best kicker to ever play the game and that hasn’t exactly led to a lot of success for the Ravens (who also had ELITE defenses during the Flacco years). If I recall correctly, Peyton had a pretty dang good kicker in Indianapolis himself.

This “Brady ain’t that good” thing is kind of dumb.
 
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#104,062
#104,062
Bassmaster_Vol said:
All of that is fair. Give Peyton those defenses and how many more wins does he have? Give Pat Mahomes those defenses and he may have 3 SB's already.
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He didn't have a paltry defense against Seattle. Pretty highly ranked. I think Peyton has the number of Super Bowl appearances he earned on the field...minus one (his last).
 
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#104,063
#104,063
TheMookieMonster said:
I get it. People here hate Tom Brady. He can be smug and isn’t easily likable, so that’s understandable, but the circle being run to explain away all of his accomplishments is just hilarious. First it was that he had great defenses, now it’s he had a great kicker.

Justin Tucker is arguably the best kicker to ever play the game and that hasn’t exactly led to a lot of success for the Ravens (who also had ELITE defenses during the Flacco years). If I recall correctly, Peyton had a pretty dang good kicker in Indianapolis himself.

This “Brady ain’t that good” thing is kind of dumb.
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Nobody is explaining away his accomplishments. I'm stating the obvious: They aren't just his accomplishments. He doesn't have those accomplishments if his defense is garbage. Instead, he could depend on a top 10 defense holding up their side of the field. If you want to argue that those defenses mean nothing to his success, that's quite a take.

Nobody said "Brady ain't good"
 
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#104,065
#104,065
TheMookieMonster said:
I get it. People here hate Tom Brady. He can be smug and isn’t easily likable, so that’s understandable, but the circle being run to explain away all of his accomplishments is just hilarious. First it was that he had great defenses, now it’s he had a great kicker.

Justin Tucker is arguably the best kicker to ever play the game and that hasn’t exactly led to a lot of success for the Ravens (who also had ELITE defenses during the Flacco years). If I recall correctly, Peyton had a pretty dang good kicker in Indianapolis himself.

This “Brady ain’t that good” thing is kind of dumb.
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I don’t think anyone has said he is/wasn’t any good. He is one of the greats. Most are saying he didn’t win those SB’s by himself. A lot was because of his teammates since it is a team sport.
Brady better be thankful he has played in the relatively modern era, as he would never had made it this long in the prior 20 years when you could actually hit the QB.
 
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#104,069
#104,069
VolsDoc81TX said:
Okay VN,
Y’all know that I will never stay current.
So with this in mind, if one of you have a dire medical issue, call 911 or go to the ER (ie listen to your wife, right engineerVOL?)

If you need medical advice, please just email me jkay@arlingtonortho.com
This is for the RF VFLs. Put your VN name in the subject line. My email comes to my phone.
I will see it much quicker than on VN most likely.
That will also keep me from stressing out about y’all (looking at you engineerVOL) 🤠

And no, I really don’t need more nudz sent…😐
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Doc, you're a good man for giving out free medical advice but be careful. Baylor Scott White takes care of my wife and me. We've been under their care for over 20 years and we both see our doctor every 6 months. I don't want anything sneaking up on me or her. We also see our dentist every 6 months. It just makes sense to me.
 
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#104,070
#104,070
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Nobody is explaining away his accomplishments. I'm stating the obvious: They aren't just his accomplishments. He doesn't have those accomplishments if his defense is garbage. Instead, he could depend on a top 10 defense holding up their side of the field. If you want to argue that those defense mean nothing to his success, that's quite a take.

Nobody said "Brady ain't good"
Click to expand...

Your entire argument is based on the idea that Brady isn’t “the GOAT” because he didn’t win all of his Super Bowls on his own and it was a team win, which would imply that someone else is indeed the GOAT because they did it on their own and didn’t need any help.

That’s just, IMO, a dumb thing to argue. As you said several times, it’s a TEAM sport. You dropped the classic “Mahomes>Brady” in another thread after that last TD pass, so I ask you when has Brady ever had the wealth of skill position weapons that Patrick Mahomes has had his entire time at KC?

Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Mecole Hardman, Travis Kelce, Clyde Edwards-Elaire, etc. The list goes on and on.

Imagine how many Super Bowls other QBs could have won if they had that type of talent to throw to?

My point remains. It’s a team sport, like you said. So arguing Brady’s wins are team wins and not his wins is a dump thing to say.
 
#104,073
#104,073
TheMookieMonster said:
Your entire argument is based on the idea that Brady isn’t “the GOAT” because he didn’t win all of his Super Bowls on his own and it was a team win, which would imply that someone else is indeed the GOAT because they did it on their own and didn’t need any help.

That’s just, IMO, a dumb thing to argue. As you said several times, it’s a TEAM sport. You dropped the classic “Mahomes>Brady” in another thread after that last TD pass, so I ask you when has Brady ever had the wealth of skill position weapons that Patrick Mahomes has had his entire time at KC?

Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Mecole Hardman, Travis Kelce, Clyde Edwards-Elaire, etc. The list goes on and on.

Imagine how many Super Bowls other QBs could have won if they had that type of talent to throw to?

My point remains. It’s a team sport, like you said. So arguing Brady’s wins are team wins and not his wins is a dump thing to say.
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My argument is that GOAT status should be determined based off of individual performance, not team wins. Especially in football. Tom Brady is not even on the field for 2 of the 3 phases of football. Nowhere am I implying that someone else did it on their own. Nobody does it on their own in football. But some have more help than others. Again, take away Brady's top 10 defenses, how many SB's does he win? Those stats posted earlier about playoff wins without a top 10 defense seems to indicate he wouldn't have many. Give Peyton top 10 defenses his entire career, how many more wins does he have? He won a SB when he was completely done because he had an elite defense. Pretty safe bet that he would have more if he had that defense his whole career the way Brady has.

So if you want to say, that you believe Brady plays the QB position better than anyone else has ever played it, then fine, that's your opinion. But if it's your opinion that he's the goat because of rings, that's idiotic.

I think Mahomes is more talented than Brady which is why I posted that. If I can pick one QB to build my team around in 2022, I'd pick Pat Mahomes in this modern era of football. If it's 2000, I'd pick Manning all day.
 
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#104,075
#104,075
Bassmaster_Vol said:
My argument is that GOAT status should be determined based off of individual performance, not team wins. Especially in football. Tom Brady is not even on the field for 2 of the 3 phases of football. Nowhere am I implying that someone else did it on their own. Nobody does it on their own in football. But some have more help than others. Again, take away Brady's top 10 defenses, how many SB's does he win? Those stats posted earlier about playoff wins without a top 10 defense seems to indicate he wouldn't have many. Give Peyton top 10 defenses his entire career, how many more wins does he have? He won a SB when he was completely done because he had an elite defense. Pretty safe bet that he would have more if he had that defense his whole career the way Brady has.

So if you want to say, that you believe Brady plays the QB position better than anyone else has ever played it, then fine, that's your opinion. But if it's your opinion that he's the goat because of rings, that's idiotic.

I think Mahomes is more talented than Brady which is why I posted that. If I can pick one QB to build my team around in 2022, I'd pick Pat Mahomes in this modern era of football. If it's 2000, I'd pick Manning all day.
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Ok, I lied. One more comment. Give Dan Marino those defenses and he would not be able to wear all his rings on both hands imo.
 
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