Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#111,901
#111,901
VolStrom said:
If these clinics are saying it's not to use these treatments, there is a good bet it's safe. I don't trust these liberal colleges to make decisions about my healthcare anymore than I do about my politics.
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Its like the scientific version of the Streisand effect. If these guys are trying to get you to look away, you are most likely looking in the right direction.
 
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#111,902
#111,902
VolStrom said:
If these clinics are saying it's not to use these treatments, there is a good bet it's safe. I don't trust these liberal colleges to make decisions about my healthcare anymore than I do about my politics.
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So if the three top medical research hospitals in the country / world are providing direction on treatment routines to save the most lives possible, then too damn bad because you think they're liberal colleges (which they aren't colleges, and that mindset is ****ing stupid)?

I trust Cleveland Clinic with my life because I had to trust Cleveland Clinic with my life when they stopped me from flying past sepsis in February of this year. By your logic, I should have written them off and stayed home and let sepsis take its course because of an artificial ideological division that really isn't applicable exist as a means to make petty attacks?
 
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#111,903
#111,903
AshG said:
So if the three top medical research hospitals in the country / world are providing direction on treatment routines to save the most lives possible, then too damn bad because you think they're liberal colleges (which they aren't colleges, and that mindset is ****ing stupid)?

I trust Cleveland Clinic with my life because I had to trust Cleveland Clinic with my life when they stopped me from flying past sepsis in February of this year. By your logic, I should have written them off and stayed home and let sepsis take its course because of an artificial ideological division that really isn't applicable exist as a means to make petty attacks?
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Painting with a broad brush. I think in each case, you have to make your own decision. Its not wise to appeal to authority always or be a contrarian the entire time. There is balance. Now having said that, an individual sepsis case is of no comparison to this political event in COVID.
 
#111,904
#111,904
VolinWayne said:
Good for you....I've not been vaxxed. I caught covid early on last year, nothing major for me. Apparantly natural immunity works for me. My wife caught covid 6 months ago. (She never got tested but she lost her taste so we new it was covid). We still slept in the same bed the entire time she was sick and I never caught what she had. While being vaxxed might help you, it's almost comical how some people just dismiss natural immunity like it suddenly doesn't exist.
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I've never dismissed natural immunity. My argument has always been whether or not you've had it, you're going to be more protected if you get vaxxed. There are also epistemic problems with natural immunity for those who never got tested (i.e. how do you know for sure you had it) and what level of immunity you have as a result (how do you know whether your body had a sufficiently strong response to create lasting protection). In light of these problems (and others) why not just get vaxxed and boosted?
 
#111,905
#111,905
evillawyer said:
I've never dismissed natural immunity. My argument has always been whether or not you've had it, you're going to be more protected if you get vaxxed. There are also epistemic problems with natural immunity for those who never got tested (i.e. how do you know for sure you had it) and what level of immunity you have as a result (how do you know whether your body had a sufficiently strong response to create lasting protection). In light of these problems (and others) why not just get vaxxed and boosted?
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Unknown long term side effects. Plus I don't want to. Really, "I don't want to" should be enough.
 
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#111,906
#111,906
My local hospital has plastered billboards all over the area advertising they have teamed up with the Mayo Clinic for my benefit. My mother died from sepsis at this same hospital after undergoing a minor outpatient surgery. Yep I'm gonna embrace this hospital if my health is dependent on it.
 
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#111,908
#111,908
Rasputin_Vol said:
Painting with a broad brush. I think in each case, you have to make your own decision. Its not wise to appeal to authority always or be a contrarian the entire time. There is balance. Now having said that, an individual sepsis case is of no comparison to this political event in COVID.
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I deserve the chastisement for my tone and approach. And yes, my solitary experience septic this February is nothing more than a blip on a linear regression chart. That's not sarcasm but an acknowledgement of reality.

You're correct that an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. So, then, would the opposite not be true? That the negative consideration of an entity because it is an authority is just as wrong?

At this point, there is no evidence available that strongly or even weakly hints that the research-focused therapy and treatment divisions of the world's top hospitals are colluding to limit treatments for those negatively affected by Covid-19. There is no data that demonstrates intentional (or, frankly, unintentional) failure to consider alternative therapies for affected patients. I can offer anecdotal data that internal medicine / primary care physicians under the Cleveland Clinic umbrella were monitoring patient levels of and prescribing/heavily recommending Vitamin D3 several months into the situation.

Even after significant digging during the course of the pandemic, I have found no dots to connect that make me believe I was provided with anything but the best medical care and recommendations related to Covid-19 while under their care. I am willing to reconsider this position should I be provided with verifiable, reliable evidence that the Clinic and its entities actor acted otherwise. I continue to look for that evidence myself out of intentional attempt to account for potential personal bias.

Can the same effort to walk in the shoes of those with differing viewpoints and counter personal bias be said of those who espouse the overwhelmingly negative/anti viewpoints in the ongoing board conversation?
 
#111,909
#111,909
AshG said:
You're correct that an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. So, then, would the opposite not be true? That the negative consideration of an entity because it is an authority is just as wrong?
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I clearly said that in my reply back to you earlier.

Rasputin_Vol said:
Painting with a broad brush. I think in each case, you have to make your own decision. Its not wise to appeal to authority always or be a contrarian the entire time. There is balance. Now having said that, an individual sepsis case is of no comparison to this political event in COVID.
Click to expand...
 
#111,910
#111,910
AshG said:
I deserve the chastisement for my tone and approach. And yes, my solitary experience septic this February is nothing more than a blip on a linear regression chart. That's not sarcasm but an acknowledgement of reality.

You're correct that an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. So, then, would the opposite not be true? That the negative consideration of an entity because it is an authority is just as wrong?

At this point, there is no evidence available that strongly or even weakly hints that the research-focused therapy and treatment divisions of the world's top hospitals are colluding to limit treatments for those negatively affected by Covid-19. There is no data that demonstrates intentional (or, frankly, unintentional) failure to consider alternative therapies for affected patients. I can offer anecdotal data that internal medicine / primary care physicians under the Cleveland Clinic umbrella were monitoring patient levels of and prescribing/heavily recommending Vitamin D3 several months into the situation.

Even after significant digging during the course of the pandemic, I have found no dots to connect that make me believe I was provided with anything but the best medical care and recommendations related to Covid-19 while under their care. I am willing to reconsider this position should I be provided with verifiable, reliable evidence that the Clinic and its entities actor acted otherwise. I continue to look for that evidence myself out of intentional attempt to account for potential personal bias.

Can the same effort to walk in the shoes of those with differing viewpoints and counter personal bias be said of those who espouse the overwhelmingly negative/anti viewpoints in the ongoing board conversation?
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Not all appeals to authority are fallacious. Depends on what work it's doing in the argument. If the argument is X is true because authority Y said so, then yeah, it's a bad argument. But if the argument is "I'm going to believe X because Y believes X and Y has more expertise than I do, is better positioned to evaluate the evidence in favor of and against X, and believes X after using his expertise to do that evaluation," then there is nothing wrong with that argument.
 
#111,911
#111,911
AshG said:
I deserve the chastisement for my tone and approach. And yes, my solitary experience septic this February is nothing more than a blip on a linear regression chart. That's not sarcasm but an acknowledgement of reality.

You're correct that an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. So, then, would the opposite not be true? That the negative consideration of an entity because it is an authority is just as wrong?

At this point, there is no evidence available that strongly or even weakly hints that the research-focused therapy and treatment divisions of the world's top hospitals are colluding to limit treatments for those negatively affected by Covid-19. There is no data that demonstrates intentional (or, frankly, unintentional) failure to consider alternative therapies for affected patients. I can offer anecdotal data that internal medicine / primary care physicians under the Cleveland Clinic umbrella were monitoring patient levels of and prescribing/heavily recommending Vitamin D3 several months into the situation.

Even after significant digging during the course of the pandemic, I have found no dots to connect that make me believe I was provided with anything but the best medical care and recommendations related to Covid-19 while under their care. I am willing to reconsider this position should I be provided with verifiable, reliable evidence that the Clinic and its entities actor acted otherwise. I continue to look for that evidence myself out of intentional attempt to account for potential personal bias.

Can the same effort to walk in the shoes of those with differing viewpoints and counter personal bias be said of those who espouse the overwhelmingly negative/anti viewpoints in the ongoing board conversation?
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

Also, I assume that you will be the one to determine if any info presented is reliable, right?
 
#111,913
#111,913
VolinWayne said:
Yeah why do they?? My family doesn't. I have somehow miraculously managed to to survive 43 years without a single flu shot.
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I got one this year only because its covered for no charge on my insurance -- then a month later the Dingleberries say its not effective because its the wrong strain
 
#111,914
#111,914
evillawyer said:
I've never dismissed natural immunity. My argument has always been whether or not you've had it, you're going to be more protected if you get vaxxed. There are also epistemic problems with natural immunity for those who never got tested (i.e. how do you know for sure you had it) and what level of immunity you have as a result (how do you know whether your body had a sufficiently strong response to create lasting protection). In light of these problems (and others) why not just get vaxxed and boosted?
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I choose not to take an experimental vaccine for a disease that I have absolutely very little chance of dying from. Nobody knows what the long term side effects are going to be. I'd much rather rely on my natural immune system to fight off diseases. I shouldn't really even need to come up with a reason besides I simply don't want it.

I know I had covid because I got sick right after I had been to a family wedding. Quite a few others in my family got covid (they actually tested positive). I didn't feel the need to go get tested because I knew I had whatever they had. (I don't buy into the hype of everybody needing to get tested. I think it's stupid). I know my natural immunity worked because I was around my wife the entire time that she had covid and I never got sick.
 
#111,915
#111,915
VolinWayne said:
I choose not to take an experimental vaccine for a disease that I have absolutely very little chance of dying from. Nobody knows what the long term side effects are going to be. I'd much rather rely on my natural immune system to fight off diseases. I shouldn't really even need to come up with a reason besides I simply don't want it.

I know I had covid because I got sick right after I had been to a family wedding. Quite a few others in my family got covid (they actually tested positive). I didn't feel the need to go get tested because I knew I had whatever they had. (I don't buy into the hype of everybody needing to get tested. I think it's stupid). I know my natural immunity worked because I was around my wife the entire time that she had covid and I never got sick.
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But, but you should wear a mask and get the jab because ELs grandmother will get sick and die if you don’t.
 
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#111,917
#111,917
VolStrom said:
Just a question for those that claim they had the covid omicron variant, how do you know? Is the government testing people for the specific covid variant?
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This is what I’m interested in as well. Business Insider, which leans center to center-left, published an article this fall stating that labs aren’t running the “diagnostics”, for lack of a better word, on the different variants because it’s so time consuming and expensive. The labs themselves said at this point there’s no point in it because the incentive isn’t there, in terms of, there’s not a difference in treatment depending on the variant. They said if one appears to pose more of an extreme threat and requires a different treatment path, then the differentiation would make sense. They interviewed multiple directors of these labs who explicitly said they’re not doing it at this time, so where does Fauci get his info on which variant is dominant at the time? When I had it, nobody told me which variant I had.
 
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#111,919
#111,919
evillawyer said:
I've never dismissed natural immunity. My argument has always been whether or not you've had it, you're going to be more protected if you get vaxxed. There are also epistemic problems with natural immunity for those who never got tested (i.e. how do you know for sure you had it) and what level of immunity you have as a result (how do you know whether your body had a sufficiently strong response to create lasting protection). In light of these problems (and others) why not just get vaxxed and boosted?
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We know the lasting protection of the “vaccine”; about 5 months on the high end. Been a lot more breakthrough cases within 5 months of the vaccine than from natural immunity.
 
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#111,921
#111,921
AthensVol2007 said:
We know the lasting protection of the “vaccine”; about 5 months on the high end. Been a lot more breakthrough cases within 5 months of the vaccine than from natural immunity.
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Just read a WSJ article yesterday where they were stating booster effectivity drops massively after about 10 to 12 weeks.
 
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